Pay back the black man?

[Anarchist Patriot]

Pay back the black man?
Discuss


http://www.ncobra.com/


The Reparations Campaign, for Black people in the United States, emerged more than one hundred years ago as the U.S. Federal Government was trying to survive the ravages of warfare among it's citizen. In the wake of the bitter hostilities from the Civil War a decision was made to release from bondage millions of then enslaved Africans.

As U.S. political, civil and business leaders grappled with the pressing question of "what to do with the Negroes?" the newly freed Africans cried out immediately for restitution - payback for centuries of stolen labor, cultural degradation and dehumanizations. Indeed, Africans held as slaves have been struggling for a restored sense of wholeness since being brought to this country as chattel.

Other organizations and individuals have carried the demand for reparations farther into the twentieth century. Many of them have become a part of today's Reparations Campaign which is being spearheaded by N'COBRA.

[Impenitent]

only after every single acre of land is returned to the tribes...

[white rice]

Almost every immigrant group has been oppressed in some form or another. The logistics of handing out a "tax cut" to black people is insane let alone that it doesn't solve shit and will explode the powder keg of racial tensions already in the US.

[castille]

I say we pay back lots of money.

But only to blacks who were slaves.


Simple. Anyone who used to be a slave gets a good payout.

[Anarchist Patriot]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (white rice,)
Almost every immigrant group has been oppressed in some form or another. The logistics of handing out a "tax cut" to black people is insane let alone that it doesn't solve shit and will explode the powder keg of racial tensions already in the US.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>But the slavery of black africans is a truely unique form of oppression in the United States. Unlike other immigrants, the african americans were brought to the Colonies against their will. They were not asked if they would like to life in the land that others came of their own free will. The only other people I could think of who did not choose were certain indivual white people who were forced to work as indentured servants. These came from England or Ireland in colonial times. Some came freely, while others were debters or criminals. But these individuals had an advantage over the blacks and that was that they could eventually be freed and had some sort of future. The blacks, on the other hand had no future.

Now though the years other immigrants arrived: Irish, Italian, Jewish, Mexican etc. Some of them suffered terribly in their homelands. Some also faced resistance after comming to the United States. But the blacks suffered inside the US. Thier situation is different from others.

What is worse, the black man has been stigmatized by their racial group. White immigrants were still white and their children often were able to mix into white native society with little difficulty.

[white rice]

I agree Anarchist Patriot, but the realist in me has several misgivings about this.

I don't know how Congress would begin to set up such an apparatus for recrimination. Who deserves to be paid back? All blacks, even those who immigrated from the Carribean and Africa after Emancipation? How much do they get paid back? I'm guessing here, but let's say that there are 30 million Americans classified as African American. The work and toil of slaves exceed one trillion in current money, but no government would pay that much. So let's give a settlement of 100 billion dollars. That only nets each African American the semblance of a yearly tax refund or the sum of social security checks after one year, definitely not enough to dig those who are poor out of their class status.

The worst consequence of this action, even if all the logistics could be carried out smoothly, is how it would pit racial groups against each other. PC is another moniker for sweeping emotional issues under a rug. This and a recession would cause hate groups to rise. Plus, with this guilt money out of the way, blacks have "no excuse" for being in poor socioeconomic conditions in the eyes of the majority. Thus it would feed onto the inferior racial stereotypes and reinforce discrimination (possibly encourage) in the workplace, government, and law enforcement.

Reparations sound like an easy way out of our history's past. I would rather support proactive outreach solutions to address the issue.

[meowmeow]

The problem with being black in the west (America) and why reparations make some sort of sense, is that after decades, or arguably centuries, of being denied the right to own property and to particpate fully in the American dream, blacks are now at a disadvantage compared to other groups where no such restrictions were placed. Wealth is handed down from generation to generation, but what happens when generation after generation you were not allowed to accumulate and pass on that wealth?

[Leopard]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (meowmeow,)
The problem with being black in the west (America) and why reparations make some sort of sense, is that after decades, or arguably centuries, of being denied the right to own property and to particpate fully in the American dream, blacks are now at a disadvantage compared to other groups where no such restrictions were placed. Wealth is handed down from generation to generation, but what happens when generation after generation you were not allowed to accumulate and pass on that wealth?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

not allowed to accumulate and pass on wealth? what exactly is preventing them, today, from doing this? Is there some law I don't know about that reads "No person of non-caucasion genetics is allowed to save their money and give it to their children"? Wait, I know black people who do have money, more money than I have - how could this be? Perhaps instead of whining to government to force me to give them money, these blacks actually worked and saved and made wise choices... hmmm, same opportunity I have....

look, it comes down to this: If my father murdered a million people, am I to be held responsible? ABsolutely not! Some of our forefathers had some really bad ideas and slavery was one of them, segregation was another, now quotes are yet another... but I did not enslave one soul, I did not drag a helpless black child across the sea in some rat-infested slave ship to be sold on our shores - It is simply not my responsibility to pay for crimes I did not committ!

If reparations come to pass, it will be another nail of division between the races...

Heres an idea: all of you folks who feel guilty for the sins of their grandfathers 150 years ago, go ahead, give your money to whomever you want to appease your guilty conscience... but keep you stinking hands outta my pocket - oh yeah, now I remember, thats what my gun is for...

innocent of Rape, Murder, Theft, AND Slavery,
michael

[Impenitent]

"Heres an idea: all of you folks who feel guilty for the sins of their grandfathers 150 years ago, go ahead, give your money to whomever you want to appease your guilty conscience... but keep you stinking hands outta my pocket - oh yeah, now I remember, thats what my gun is for..."

BRILLIANT!!

of course their liberal guilt will never allow you to keep yours though...

more guns!!

[meowmeow]

Leopard,

it's the sins of the father...and all that. Blacks were never asked to negotiate treaties, and the reparations that were promised have never been paid (two acres and a mule)...That being said, the problem is not all white. It is a recent development blacks owning property and moving into the middle class. In about a 100 years,the reparation argument will be dead as the majority of blacks move into the middle class...heck you'll even see more black hockey players and golfers (the sports that demand investment) as time goes by.

The thing is, the feeling of betrayal and envy. After all this time, after all the years of slavery, oppression and repression, it's difficult for some to understand why first generation immigrants are given opportunities that historically were denied to 3, 5, 10 generation "African" Americans. And I use the term loosely, because I believe the term to be a misnomer.

All this to say that I undrstand the arguments for reparations, but I can see, as time goes by, how unnecessary they are.

[Leopard]

yes, meow, reparations are not only unnecessary but also just as immoral as the original harm in question (slavery). It is just plain wrong to force people to fork over money and take responsibility for something they did not cause, in fact something which happened before they were even born!

That said, it is just as immoral for our government to 'deficit spend'. We are paying for luxuries today with money out of the pockets of future taxpayers. Neat trick, huh? Talk about taxation without representation.... we are dooming our children to revolt and violent upheavel, they will definitely rebel when told, "just by the mere fact of being born, you inherit a debt from previous generations to support their extravagant lifestyle and social services - no, you get none of the benefits, just the costs... here is your $100,000 bill, have a good life."

sorry to stray off-topic,
michael

[harami]

"Unlike other immigrants, the african americans were brought to the Colonies against their will. They were not asked if they would like to life in the land that others came of their own free will.'

Probably lawyers are needed for this. Most of the blacks who were imported as slaves were sold to white ship captains by local black tribal chieftans. Thus the local black chieftans and their descendents are the ones who should be sued for reparations. The ugly fact is that they probably have enough net worth to be suable. So the lawyers will go where the money is.

One might entertain a counter suit by the 620,000 whites who died liberating the blacks. Should be fun.

[Leopard]

"One might entertain a counter suit by the 620,000 whites who died liberating the blacks."

How, exactly, do 620,000 dead people counter-sue?

[meowmeow]

Sorry to disappoint you Leopard, but if the U.S. government promised 2 acres and a mule 100 years ago and never paid, then it is not "immoral" for the descendants of those people jilted by that promise to ask for what would have been their birth-right. Besides, the government is immutable, and that is who would be sued, not every "white" taxpayer, but every taxpayer. I keep hearing why should "we" pay for something that happened before "we" were born...and by "we" I presume you to mean "whites"...but it is the government that is being asked to pay for the previous sins of the government.

In any case, the "need" for reparations will diminish from generation to generation as the will to collect what was promised is replaced by upward social mobility.

[Leopard]

of course 'we' means everybody as in taxpayers - which even more so points out the stupidity of such an act: force black taxpayers to pay blacks for reparations...what?! I still don't see the connection between my money and the enslavement of people 100 years or more ago. the government of today is not the sam government of that period by any stretch. OK, so there were promises made and not kept... why not take the government to court when the contract was broken, not 150 years later. Isn't there a statue of limitations on fraud or theft?

If someone breaks a contract with me and I am owed $100 and I do not pursue the matter in a timely fashion, I do not retain the right to grievences indefinitely AND I especially cannot pass this right on to my legacy (children and grandchildren).

If my grandfather owed someone money and they didn't collect either before or at the time of death through his estate, they lose their collection rights. This does not exist forever through some strange genetic transferrance, 150 years into the future where poor little old me.

Seriously, how can you defend such a position wihout a smile on your face, come on admit it, you are just trying to rile me up into a frenzy all the while laughing your head off...

michael

[PeterAngelo]

The Indians finally got legal educations at Harvard and found that under CURRENT Federal law they could sue for every broken treaty ever made - and win.

That is why they have the gambling concession.

What irony.

They are helping the white man destroy the white mans fraud.

The Supreme Court case, Plessey v. Ferguson (1893) legalized "Jim Crow" laws that led to sixty years of legalized Saturday night "lynching parties" and a State sanctioned, deliberate system of abuse as bad as any nightmare ever on Earth.

It was TV that showed the world the fat U. S. redneck sheriff and his German Shepard chewing little Black children and forced the civil rights acts of 1954 and 1964.

It would still be the same today without TV.

The net result is similar to what happened after the civil war.

The slaves were not freed.

The plantation owners were freed from having to totally support their workers.

They turned them into wage-slaves like all Americans workers now are - Black, White, Brown, Yellow, Red or Green.

As far as reparations are concerned the legal channel that has validity is based on the Supreme Court case of Plessey v. Ferguson.

Since the government sanctioned racism, murder, and the associated mayhem and social destruction it brings, could be sued for damages.

It would work.

It should work.

It would free us all.

It would also - hopefully - let the clueless whites in this country realize they are being played the same as Blacks.

MacDonalds couldn't afford to "own" their employees and totally support them. Yet they expect under ten dollars an hour for time served can support a family.

JOKE.

Reparations?

I am white and I want reparations from this organized-crime gang government that is ruining my life and threatening my grand-children.

Reparations aren't enough.

Revolution is mandatory.

The Internet, or E-Grapevine is doing for the military-industrial complex what TV did for the Southern Blacks.

Showing the whole world in real time what a barbarian nation we really are.

The jig is up (pardon the pun).

Our game is over because it has been exposed.

The mop up will be most unpleasant.

Vote with your gun.

[bluenadas]

I find it funny that after Indian tribes sue the gov't for the wrongs done to them and won, we see a big insurgence of blacks wanting resitution due to slavery.

Now look at it this way. Tribes men of Africa were the ones selling their fellow men into slavery. Why not sue them? Oh wait, they don't have any money. Or how about the fact that America imported less than 25% of all slaves exported from Africa? Why not sue those countries as well? Where do we draw the line guys? It happened. It's over. Move on. Live life to the fullest in the splendor we now have and leave the past where it belongs....in the history books.

Aren't we all slaves nowadays? Working for others and being punished if we don't? Sure feels like slavery now.. but, hey, if the slaves of yesterday deserve to be compensated, then those that enslaved them should be punished, and not the tax payers.

[Suburbanite]

It is weird that a White person has to feel "guilty" to help a Black person. Hmm...

[PatC]

First, Why should a black person be rewarded for something their ancestors had to endure 150 years ago. Bill O'Reilly had guest on his show arguing that great great gradchildren of former slaves suffer from post tramatic slavery disorder, sounds made up to me, but was arguing that because of the mental anguish that they suffer from should be rewarded. Who gets paid, how do we track down the every ancestor of former slaves and seperate them from others who immigrated here after slavery?

Second, My great grandparents immigrated to the U.S. from Ireland in the late 19th century. Why should i be held accountable for what former slaves had to endure when neither me nor any of my ancestors had any part in slavery or the slave trade. Do we have to track down ancestors of of slave owners too? Why should white Americans only be held accountable, when blacks in Africa sold them into slavery, and slave traders from other countries had a part to play, especially the Portuguese?