Pay back the black man?

[PatrickHenry]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (damnrad,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (white rice,)
Almost every immigrant group has been oppressed in some form or another. The logistics of handing out a "tax cut" to black people is insane let alone that it doesn't solve shit and will explode the powder keg of racial tensions already in the US.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Almost every immigrant group? Well, consider this: the 'immigrant group' in question involved involuntary immigration: kidnapping and being pressed into slavery. That slavery was then used to build a nation by making productive land stolen from Indians. Much of the wealth of this society was originally built on the backs of slaves forced to work on land stolen from Indians. The 'oppression' that can be compared to what immigrants underwent, although such comparison shows it to have been much worse than what was experienced by any immigrants, was the transformed oppression following the end of slavery (and the stealing of the continent). Reparations are the LEAST that this society owes to descendants of slaves and to American Indians alike.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Question: are you black or Indian and hoping to get free money?
Question: if white, do you pay taxes?
Question: isn't the society, its people?

The money comes out of peoples pockets, well, bank accounts. What Constitutional provisions can you cite for stealing my money and giving it to someone else, Robin Hood?

[ConservativeX]

I'll go ahead and give you an answer: None.

[Mozart1220]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (white rice,)
Almost every immigrant group has been oppressed in some form or another. The logistics of handing out a "tax cut" to black people is insane let alone that it doesn't solve shit and will explode the powder keg of racial tensions already in the US.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>But the slavery of black africans is a truely unique form of oppression in the United States. Unlike other immigrants, the african americans were brought to the Colonies against their will. They were not asked if they would like to life in the land that others came of their own free will. The only other people I could think of who did not choose were certain indivual white people who were forced to work as indentured servants. These came from England or Ireland in colonial times. Some came freely, while others were debters or criminals. But these individuals had an advantage over the blacks and that was that they could eventually be freed and had some sort of future. The blacks, on the other hand had no future.

Now though the years other immigrants arrived: Irish, Italian, Jewish, Mexican etc. Some of them suffered terribly in their homelands. Some also faced resistance after comming to the United States. But the blacks suffered inside the US. Thier situation is different from others.

What is worse, the black man has been stigmatized by their racial group. White immigrants were still white and their children often were able to mix into white native society with little difficulty.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Tell this to the people who built the pyramids....

[Mia]

Many Italians came over as indentured servents. I'm sure others did too.

I have the utmost horror for slavery and how the blacks came to be here and if reparations from slave sellers and buyers had been paid directly to slaves I would have been all for it.

But ask any black person here whether they want us to give them TRUE reparation by letting them go back where they came from (this is what I would want if I were sold into slavery in another country) and they will tell you no, they want to pursue the American opportunities instead. So that's the end of that for me.

[Mia]

We have made up for the oppression after slavery with affirmitave action and a zillion other dollars in programs that only benefitted blacks. Our debt is paid.

My father came from worse conditions than most blacks born in his day and worked his way up with no programs and no help and they can do the same.

[ConservativeX]

Just a point of trivia, but slavery is still not only LEGAL but CONSTITUTIONAL in the United States of America under one condition.

Can anyone identify that condition?

[Impenitent]

during incarceration after conviction of a crime

[ConservativeX]

Very good!

Most people don't realize that the 13th Amendment did not outlaw slavery, it reduced the legality of slavery to punishment of a crime.

[Fire]

I'm black... and all I want from this country, u can call it a reparation. Admit your wrongs, your racism and your discrimination!! We can't even prosecute a cop caught on video beating a kid in this country, and call it racism... what do they call it, "resonable force"

Publish and make public what hundreds of years of hate will do to a country... on both sides of the color line. Some comments in this very thread shown the shallow-depths of ignorance.

Slavery may have ended, but the after-effects of racism & discrimination that continue today have caused a greater output of destroyed lives today.

I'll trade ALL the acres & mules & interests owing for this.

1-love

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Fire, I'm black... and all I want from this country, u can call it a reparation. Admit your wrongs, your racism and your discrimination!!

Fire, please see my post on page 7 of this thread.
My personal wrongs are probably much the same as yours... growing up in a de facto segregated society and being taught(by those who knew no better) to be suspicious of those who are different from myself. As a youth, I was prejudiced against all minorities, but especially US Blacks.

But as my mind and spirit grew into manhood, I became aware of the mistakes and implausibility of what I had been taught. Basing attitudes and behavior on race is and always has been wrong. This is my rationale for refusing to consider monetary reparations based on race.

I can understand your rage. It is the same rage I feel when I have been unfairly treated. My advice to you is to redirect your emotions to more productive ends. Utilize the freedom you have, and don't regret what you don't have. Every person, almost without exception will face injustice and the pain it brings in their existence on earth. How will you get to the next step in your life?

Sorry Fire I sympathise with you but I accept NO responsibility for any racism commited in this country by individuals of any color. I am not responsible for the "sins of my forefathers." None of my ancestors ever owned slaves and even if they did, I would not have inherited any guilt.
Racism does exist in this country still, not just generated by whites. I am not a participant and refuse to be told I'm guilty.

[ConservativeX]

My forefathers fought and died in the Civil War to help free the slaves, so I figure if they get money, they owe some of it to me.

That is, afterall if we're paying our ancestor's dues and all...

[Impenitent]

my ancestors were Abenaki... if anyone gets anything, I get new england...

[Young]

I Love Black people, at every level of personal evolution. From as Bad as White Trash to the Head of the United Nations, but this I find Humorous. This Is like 50 cent saying "I'm just expressing what I see & the Street is my everyday situation." The Truth Is Gangsta Rap hurts the Black community, by giving children false interpretations of what Goals they should have. AI to JZ, So that covers the alphabet...but really it speaks to AI (iverson) sports, JZ (rapper Jay-z) Rap. Sports are a wonderful Dream, but for many thats all it ever can be. Rap promotes everything Bad about the situation some Americans are forced to live in, to the point of Glorification. So Rappers are making money while making the situation of the Street worse because they make it look Cool to the Youth, and not just Black Youth either. I use the word Black because no one refers to me as Irish American, I'm also American Indian & some of Us got Casinos. Our History is worse than Black History, this was Ours & them Satanic Crackers Killed Us as they Took it. Would Black Americans argue Slavery worse? If Black Americans think Our country better to live in than Africa, then they should Pray thanks to their ancestors for having to deal with Slavery, because they wouldn't have gotten here any other way. Imagine if Lincoln would of made the South ship Africans back to their Country. This all stems from Greed! Everyone is looking for a way to make a quick Buck.

[Mia]

Originally posted by Fire, I'm black... and all I want from this country, u can call it a reparation. Admit your wrongs, your racism and your discrimination!! We can't even prosecute a cop caught on video beating a kid in this country, and call it racism... what do they call it, "resonable force" Publish and make public what hundreds of years of hate will do to a country... on both sides of the color line. Some comments in this very thread shown the shallow-depths of ignorance. Slavery may have ended, but the after-effects of racism & discrimination that continue today have caused a greater output of destroyed lives today. I'll trade ALL the acres & mules & interests owing for this. 1-love

Fire, I am glad to have you join the discussion. We should hear from those it affects! I think what you asked for has been done. I've seen movie after movie and spreads in magazines and newspapers and black awareness month and curculum in school.

As for current racism: Ever watch Cops? I've seen white men get the same treatment. It's just splashed all over the media when the suspect is black.

I know that it still exists - I had a boss who said he'd never hire a black person.

But guess what? Women deal with the same thing. You can suck it up and work harder to prove yoursef or you can whine about injustice and keep yourself down.

I didn't mean you are whining...I meant all of us in general have these two choices. :-)

[Leopard]

Dearest Mr. Fire:
I, personaly, am not going to apologize or explain a thing except to acknowledge that slavery in this country and in others is a direct violation of human rights (basic rights). I would never partake in this and would gladly fight against anyone who attempted to enslave others. I have grown up believing that each person is due respect they earn, and should each be treated/judged as individuals instead of members of a certain group (be that group a sexual preference, a skin pigmentation, an ethnic distinction, a gender, or whatever).

[ConservativeX]

Originally posted by Mia, The only "fair" way would be for any person who can prove an ancestor of theirs is owed for slave labor to sue the descendant of THAT slave owner, and/or the seller, if it can be proven they inherited money from the slave owner or seller. How could anything else be fair?

Actually, that wouldn't be fair, either, since

A) The statute of limitations has long been gone

B) You would be introducing the concept of punishing desendants for their ancestors' actions.

With the Indians it is completely different because it WAS the governmnet who ripped them off. (PS I read the Indians are seeing little of the casino money - it's going right back into white men's pockets) It's to bad the two acres and a mule were never given at the right time to the right people so they could have all started off on a good foot. The actual slaves certainly deserved to be compensated for their free labor.

Agreed.

[Fire]

In this struggle I know Blacks cannot do it alone. I am aware it has seeped deep into American culture on every front.

I wish more White folks would seize the opportunity when to correct a situaton when one exists and put people in check.

Everyday I breathe I see it, if I'm in front of the TV or on the street. It seems some days like White folks don't even give a damn!

I know there is good people, and good people right here in this thread - my coments aren't directed at you, but at the people who let this $hit continue.

[Mia]

Can you give us some concrete examples?

[Young]

I submit that the Police Racially Profile Black people.
I submit that a white corporate Majority makes it harder for Blacks to get equality in the Job Market.
Now I wish to say some things and I hope all of You, especially if You are Black, I hope You will indulge me and see my words as being from a Friend.

The KKK is now almost Non-existent in the South, I live here, I'm White, I know lots of Rednecks...but not one member of the KKK.

The Civil War was started over States rights, and was largely about what Group of people would control this Country, during the War Lincoln declared Slavery would be ended.

Jews were slaves in Egypt, but God looked down and thought that his chosen people shouldn't be forced to build for false Gods, and He sent Moses. Once again God looked down and saw His children of Africa, but In a New place & what's this Forced Slavery for Monetary Profit...Oh No.

That said My Confederate Flag Isn't Hate, and when I see Idiot Rednecks trying to Use it for that purpose I knock them Out & take it from them. My direct ancestor is in the famous painting of the Signing of surrender,Capt. Thomas Young, Gen. Robert E Lee's most trusted Captain...those words are on His headstone. After surrender, the Union proceeded to Atlanta, Our Lovely city...& they Burnt Her to the Ground. Over the Years sure some instances of Racism were common, but the deeds of friendship & brotherhood weren't reported. Come down to the South sometime, amongst the more Educated Whites & Blacks You'll find a Family type Bond. We are becoming one & we're very Angry that Our region supplies the Majority of Soldiers for the Nation, because we're mostly poor and dream of enriching Our lives through Education. White people here can go to the Hood, and Black people can come to the Countryside, & if anyone tried to burn Us out again, Blacks & Whites would stand together. As a people Southern Whites understand where they were wrong and we'll always feel ashamed, but through Our New Bonds with Our Black brother & sisters we're looking towards the Future and Praying that we can Move Forward Together...Our Church's have been a great help, and We All enjoy Praising the Lord Together & We also Love eating Together, Ya'll Know we got the Best BBQ.

Young