Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Leopard · Feb 22, 2004, 05:31 am

I understand how you might say that, 'War based economy', but in fact, it isn't true - our economy IS mostly free market. Thats part of the reason we have grown so wealthy EVEN with the monkey of big government et al dragging the economy back. The problem is that our government has also been able to subsidize itself by transferring the cost onto other countries... we are where we are today partly due to our own productiveness + the productiveness and resources of others - government intervention.

If you notice, we don't wage war to gain land or wealth directly. War is used (more importantly, 'the threat of war') to coerce other countries to subsidize our inflated standard of living and line the pockets of those in power. For instance, the war with Iraq is not about getting oil out of Iraq, or taking over the country, or Saddam, or even terrorism - it is a very direct and unmistakable threat to ALL other oil producing countries in the region to NOT switch their currency of choice in the sale of oil to the rest of the world. There will come a point when the world gets sick of harming there own citizens for the sake of our luxury in the states... and our military will be of no use... is it coincidental that Saddam was the first to change and accept the Euro for oil?

just wait when China stops subsidizing our looting of its resources and labor... we ain't seen recession yet...
--------------

why do you say we are overpopulated? All of the citizens in the US could easily own a nice acre of land and still all fit into an area smaller than texas... sheesh, I could house 3 other people relatively comfortably in my home (and it ain't big by 'average' standards) without making tremendous sacrifices... overpopulated?! a myth and appeal to fears that other groups (the greens and others) have perpetrated upon the world to advance their particular agenda... except it is easily refuted which discredits their movement in general quite a bit... I like trees and wildlife too, but don't tell me there are too many people on this earth - its just silly.

ranting late at night,
michael

PeterAngelo · Feb 22, 2004, 01:33 pm

It is always a battle of banks - I know.

We ARE a war based economy.

Among ourselves we survive by working the "underground economy".

Those guys holding up the pick-up trucks are holding up the whole country.

Right now the Airlines and weapons factories are being supported by the war - if it weren't for the troop and equipment transfers by commercial airlines - with cost plus contracts - the airlines would be dead.

The petro-chemical, plastics, and most industry is dependant on our eternal war mongering and exploitation of the third world.

The EURO, and our deficit are the threat - we are broke and the world is swarming on us - GOOD.

This boil has to burst to begin the healing - the war machine now on the loose will self-destruct in the light of modern communications.

Corporate controlled media in America is trumped by everyone everywhere with a computer or TV.

The 6,000,000,000 people of the world are the ONLY superpower - America is a dying dragon that is trying to keep Churchill's drunken dream of Empire alive - he died of old age - so did Stalin and Roosevelt - so will the ancient evil empires.

Stigmata66 · Feb 22, 2004, 02:15 pm

Omg..that is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
We ARE a war based economy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yes because there was a huge war during the booming economy of the clinton years.....

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Among ourselves we survive by working the "underground economy".<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
What the hell are you talking about? Drugs,illegal weapons???what?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
the war machine now on the loose will self-destruct in the light of modern communications.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

So AL QUEADA is going to view our Amry with a GPS satilite and talk them to death?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
America is a dying dragon that is trying to keep Churchill's drunken dream of Empire alive - he died of old age - so did Stalin and Roosevelt - so will the ancient evil empires.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Yes! That ancient evil empire of 228 years!! Oh man remember when general Patton kicked Caesar's ass at the battle Carthage.....?? This ANCIENT empire of rebuilding and helping countries after we conquer them and then leave let them participate in free and open elections. Good things this evil dragon is DYING OF >>>OLD<<< AGE.

NORMLperson · Mar 11, 2004, 04:21 pm

To correct Stigmata (and not stigmatize) there was a war during the Clinton years, the on going Drug War. During his second term, Clinton was criticized for being to 'lax' on the Reagan/Bush militant drug war. To compensate, he allotted more funding to the DEA, who in turn incarcerated MORE non-violent drug offenders than the number of those arrested during Reagan's two terms and Bush Sr.'s regime. That move is why the prison industrial complex has been flooded in the past decade and why privite business is reaping the benefits of the marginalized, racially profiled non-violent drug offenders that are incarcerated. Look at the health statistics of ER visits and deaths from drug overdose. A overwhelmingly large amount of drug users that died from overdoses from crack or heroin were caucasian. Hmm, how come the cops didn't arrest them for being non-violent drug users?

Mia · Mar 11, 2004, 07:58 pm

The US government didn't profit from slaves that I know of so why does it owe anyone?

The money would come from current taxpayers if they did, which as it has been pointed out here would be millions of people who's ancestors either weren't even here or didn't own slaves, so why would we owe anyone?

The only "fair" way would be for any person who can prove an ancestor of theirs is owed for slave labor to sue the descendant of THAT slave owner, and/or the seller, if it can be proven they inherited money from the slave owner or seller.

How could anything else be fair?

With the Indians it is completely different because it WAS the governmnet who ripped them off. (PS I read the Indians are seeing little of the casino money - it's going right back into white men's pockets)

It's to bad the two acres and a mule were never given at the right time to the right people so they could have all started off on a good foot. The actual slaves certainly deserved to be compensated for their free labor.

BTW, someone implied the slave owners were better off paying wages than "having to support" their slaves. That is ridiculous. Their labor far exceeded the amount of money it cost to let them sleep in a barn and eat the masters leftovers.

Stigmata66 · Mar 11, 2004, 10:06 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
NORMLperson

To correct Stigmata (and not stigmatize) there was a war during the Clinton years, the on going Drug War. During his second term, Clinton was criticized for being to 'lax' on the Reagan/Bush militant drug war. To compensate, he allotted more funding to the DEA, who in turn incarcerated MORE non-violent drug offenders than the number of those arrested during Reagan's two terms and Bush Sr.'s regime. That move is why the prison industrial complex has been flooded in the past decade and why privite business is reaping the benefits of the marginalized, racially profiled non-violent drug offenders that are incarcerated. Look at the health statistics of ER visits and deaths from drug overdose. A overwhelmingly large amount of drug users that died from overdoses from crack or heroin were caucasian. Hmm, how come the cops didn't arrest them for being non-violent drug users?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Because all cops are racist pigs!!! No.

Maybe they just sent them to court and rehab the ones in jail multiple offenders(who don't diserve to be there). I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure racism isn't exactly rampant like it was during the 1920's where the "Invisible Empire"ruled the south. The war on drugs isn't exactly a war and I really don't see how this "War on Drugs" stimulates the economy. I am for the legalization of drugs; it would free these innocent drug offenders from jail and free up room for REAL criminals. I fear that bibel thumpers and oldstock from both sides will shoot this idea down for until they die off.

Mia · Mar 11, 2004, 10:27 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (NORMLperson,)
To correct Stigmata (and not stigmatize) there was a war during the Clinton years, the on going Drug War. During his second term, Clinton was criticized for being to 'lax' on the Reagan/Bush militant drug war. To compensate, he allotted more funding to the DEA, who in turn incarcerated MORE non-violent drug offenders than the number of those arrested during Reagan's two terms and Bush Sr.'s regime. That move is why the prison industrial complex has been flooded in the past decade and why privite business is reaping the benefits of the marginalized, racially profiled non-violent drug offenders that are incarcerated. Look at the health statistics of ER visits and deaths from drug overdose. A overwhelmingly large amount of drug users that died from overdoses from crack or heroin were caucasian. Hmm, how come the cops didn't arrest them for being non-violent drug users?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Maybe more whites could go to the hospital to be counted in the first place. That's part of it. The other part is racial profiling, leading to more blacks being looked at for drugs, a larger % of blacks having a prior offense, partially due to the same factors, a greater likelihood for the whites to have education/money/lawyers...the list goes on.

There are also mandatory minimums that end up letting drug offenders serve longer sentances than murderers in many cases. Additionally, the mandatory minimums are racist. Crack is cheaper than coke and therefore used more often by blacks than whites. The minimums are higher for crack.

tivodan1116 · Mar 12, 2004, 01:26 am

Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of Americans of any race currently living here did not even have ancestors in this country during the time of slavery. Therefore not only are they not responsible, neither are their ancestors. Everyone can claim to be oppressed in one way or another. My ancestors are Irish. Should I be suing Tony Blair for the way the British mistreated my people over the past 1000 years? A few of my other ancestors are British, do I sue myself? I had one ancestor who fought for the Germans in WWI, and one who fought for the Americans... Who do I sue there...... ad nauseum. Knowing your past is one thing, dwelling on it and blaming it for your present is another.

AnonT · Mar 12, 2004, 04:49 am

In response to racism and the war on drugs, 70% of drug users are white but only 30% of people in jail for drug use are white. Most states have much harsher penalties for crack cocaine than for ordinary cocaine, even though they're made from the same basic drug and have nearly identical effects; the most prevalent explanation for this being that crack is mainly used by lower class minorities while ordinary cocaine is mainly used by middle and upper class whites. That, and, as the documentary Grass pointed out, most early marijuana laws were used mainly as an excuse to arrest Mexican immigrants. It's much easier to demonize something done by a minority group than it is to demonize something done by a better funded majority.

tivodan1116 · Mar 12, 2004, 08:15 am

That's an easy enough dilemma for me to solve.... legalize drugs and release anyone in prison on a nonviolent drug offense. Issue resolved. In fact, many MORE issues resolved because the resulting legitimate drug trade formed takes all the crime incentive out of the drug black market and thereby greatly improves lower-income neighborhoods.

AnonT · Mar 13, 2004, 05:24 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tivodan1116,)
That's an easy enough dilemma for me to solve.... legalize drugs and release anyone in prison on a nonviolent drug offense. Issue resolved. In fact, many MORE issues resolved because the resulting legitimate drug trade formed takes all the crime incentive out of the drug black market and thereby greatly improves lower-income neighborhoods.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Like, duh.

NORMLperson · Mar 15, 2004, 08:08 pm

I am very interested in the previous comments posited by AnonT and tivodan. I would like to invite anyone who is more vocal on the drug issue (either for or against, I want both sides) to look at the topic of "War on Drugs" and take my poll. It's quite interesting, it pertains to a very current issue within the US and thanks for your time.

"kill, kill, kill, the white man" - Howard Stern in Private Parts

Mia · Mar 15, 2004, 08:25 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (NORMLperson,)
I am very interested in the previous comments posited by AnonT and tivodan. I would like to invite anyone who is more vocal on the drug issue (either for or against, I want both sides) to look at the topic of "War on Drugs" and take my poll. It's quite interesting, it pertains to a very current issue within the US and thanks for your time.

"kill, kill, kill, the white man" - Howard Stern in Private Parts<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Would you post in that topic to bring it up to the top?

AnonT · Mar 16, 2004, 05:36 am

I actually started a poll on the topic in another forum.... about 85% of people here favored at least decriminalization of marijuana, most favoring outright legalization and a lot even favored legalizing all drugs.

Apr 3, 2004, 04:39 pm

I think the idea of paying reperations to black people today is rediculous. There are no living ex-slaves, nor are there any ex-slave owners. If there were ex-slaves and ex-owners, I'd say the ex-owners owed the ex-slaves. I as a caucasion had absolutely nothing to do with slavery and I'm not guilty of the sins of these now dead slave owners. Nor are companies that turned a profit back in the slave days guilty of anything today. Minorities in this country are as capable of making a success out of themselves and White folk. To say otherwise is to perpetuate some sort of agenda.

somerandomperson · Apr 6, 2004, 06:18 pm

I agree with dave654 completely. I have not done anything to directly hinder the economic growth of minorities in America, yet I am expected to hand out money to pay "reparations" for something that I have nothing to do with? The wrongs have been done by our ancestors; I will not pay a penny in reparations to ANYBODY. What about the Irish and the Polish (to name just two)? What about the hardships they endured? I realize that they were not held as slaves, but they were treated just as poorly as Black Americans were in the past. I simply do not agree with reparations. IMO, it seems like a method in which some people are trying to get some free money.

ConservativeX · Apr 7, 2004, 02:48 pm

It's just another method to get money from the Government.

Our legal system does NOT hold people liable for their ancestor's mistakes/crimes.

Some black people work hard and make it. The rest need to get with it, get off the Government dole and clean up their communities.

PatrickHenry · Apr 13, 2004, 03:31 am

It'll never happen. People are just blowin' off some steam. The logistics alone would be impossible. How could anyone document slave ancestors, most of whom had no birth certificates.

When our black friends speak to us of these matters, we (whites) would do best to acknowledge the historical mistreatment todays black people's ancestors suffered. Be sympathetic and understanding, even apologetic for the sins of our White ancestors. Then observe aloud how much better things are nowadays and point out that realistically, Blacks are wasting their time and effort chasing smoke.

Say "As your friend, I need to tell you that, just like everybody else, what you should shoot for is education, high personal integrity, a settled life. Reparations is like playing the lottery. If you hit, it's good but the odds are heavy against and why waste your time? The real game (the one life you really have)isn't rigged. Make something out of it!!

ConservativeX · Apr 13, 2004, 06:35 am

Nicely stated, PH.

Of course, since it makes sense, it will never be done...

damnrad · Apr 13, 2004, 03:35 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (white rice,)
Almost every immigrant group has been oppressed in some form or another. The logistics of handing out a "tax cut" to black people is insane let alone that it doesn't solve shit and will explode the powder keg of racial tensions already in the US.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Almost every immigrant group? Well, consider this: the 'immigrant group' in question involved involuntary immigration: kidnapping and being pressed into slavery. That slavery was then used to build a nation by making productive land stolen from Indians. Much of the wealth of this society was originally built on the backs of slaves forced to work on land stolen from Indians. The 'oppression' that can be compared to what immigrants underwent, although such comparison shows it to have been much worse than what was experienced by any immigrants, was the transformed oppression following the end of slavery (and the stealing of the continent). Reparations are the LEAST that this society owes to descendants of slaves and to American Indians alike.

Feb 22, 2004, 05:31 am	#81 (permalink) (top)
Leopard Propertarian Posts: 568	I understand how you might say that, 'War based economy', but in fact, it isn't true - our economy IS mostly free market. Thats part of the reason we have grown so wealthy EVEN with the monkey of big government et al dragging the economy back. The problem is that our government has also been able to subsidize itself by transferring the cost onto other countries... we are where we are today partly due to our own productiveness + the productiveness and resources of others - government intervention. If you notice, we don't wage war to gain land or wealth directly. War is used (more importantly, 'the threat of war') to coerce other countries to subsidize our inflated standard of living and line the pockets of those in power. For instance, the war with Iraq is not about getting oil out of Iraq, or taking over the country, or Saddam, or even terrorism - it is a very direct and unmistakable threat to ALL other oil producing countries in the region to NOT switch their currency of choice in the sale of oil to the rest of the world. There will come a point when the world gets sick of harming there own citizens for the sake of our luxury in the states... and our military will be of no use... is it coincidental that Saddam was the first to change and accept the Euro for oil? just wait when China stops subsidizing our looting of its resources and labor... we ain't seen recession yet... -------------- why do you say we are overpopulated? All of the citizens in the US could easily own a nice acre of land and still all fit into an area smaller than texas... sheesh, I could house 3 other people relatively comfortably in my home (and it ain't big by 'average' standards) without making tremendous sacrifices... overpopulated?! a myth and appeal to fears that other groups (the greens and others) have perpetrated upon the world to advance their particular agenda... except it is easily refuted which discredits their movement in general quite a bit... I like trees and wildlife too, but don't tell me there are too many people on this earth - its just silly. ranting late at night, michael Take on the responsibility to be free

Feb 22, 2004, 02:15 pm	#83 (permalink) (top)
Stigmata66 Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 74	Omg..that is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by We ARE a war based economy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yes because there was a huge war during the booming economy of the clinton years..... </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Among ourselves we survive by working the "underground economy".<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> What the hell are you talking about? Drugs,illegal weapons???what? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by the war machine now on the loose will self-destruct in the light of modern communications.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> So AL QUEADA is going to view our Amry with a GPS satilite and talk them to death? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by America is a dying dragon that is trying to keep Churchill's drunken dream of Empire alive - he died of old age - so did Stalin and Roosevelt - so will the ancient evil empires.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yes! That ancient evil empire of 228 years!! Oh man remember when general Patton kicked Caesar's ass at the battle Carthage.....?? This ANCIENT empire of rebuilding and helping countries after we conquer them and then leave let them participate in free and open elections. Good things this evil dragon is DYING OF >>>OLD<<< AGE. Hate heals, you should try it some time! Fukin Arch Enemy!

Mar 11, 2004, 07:58 pm	#85 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	The US government didn't profit from slaves that I know of so why does it owe anyone? The money would come from current taxpayers if they did, which as it has been pointed out here would be millions of people who's ancestors either weren't even here or didn't own slaves, so why would we owe anyone? The only "fair" way would be for any person who can prove an ancestor of theirs is owed for slave labor to sue the descendant of THAT slave owner, and/or the seller, if it can be proven they inherited money from the slave owner or seller. How could anything else be fair? With the Indians it is completely different because it WAS the governmnet who ripped them off. (PS I read the Indians are seeing little of the casino money - it's going right back into white men's pockets) It's to bad the two acres and a mule were never given at the right time to the right people so they could have all started off on a good foot. The actual slaves certainly deserved to be compensated for their free labor. BTW, someone implied the slave owners were better off paying wages than "having to support" their slaves. That is ridiculous. Their labor far exceeded the amount of money it cost to let them sleep in a barn and eat the masters leftovers. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Mar 11, 2004, 10:06 pm	#86 (permalink) (top)
Stigmata66 Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 74	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by NORMLperson To correct Stigmata (and not stigmatize) there was a war during the Clinton years, the on going Drug War. During his second term, Clinton was criticized for being to 'lax' on the Reagan/Bush militant drug war. To compensate, he allotted more funding to the DEA, who in turn incarcerated MORE non-violent drug offenders than the number of those arrested during Reagan's two terms and Bush Sr.'s regime. That move is why the prison industrial complex has been flooded in the past decade and why privite business is reaping the benefits of the marginalized, racially profiled non-violent drug offenders that are incarcerated. Look at the health statistics of ER visits and deaths from drug overdose. A overwhelmingly large amount of drug users that died from overdoses from crack or heroin were caucasian. Hmm, how come the cops didn't arrest them for being non-violent drug users? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Because all cops are racist pigs!!! No. Maybe they just sent them to court and rehab the ones in jail multiple offenders(who don't diserve to be there). I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure racism isn't exactly rampant like it was during the 1920's where the "Invisible Empire"ruled the south. The war on drugs isn't exactly a war and I really don't see how this "War on Drugs" stimulates the economy. I am for the legalization of drugs; it would free these innocent drug offenders from jail and free up room for REAL criminals. I fear that bibel thumpers and oldstock from both sides will shoot this idea down for until they die off. Hate heals, you should try it some time! Fukin Arch Enemy!

Mar 11, 2004, 10:27 pm	#87 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (NORMLperson,) To correct Stigmata (and not stigmatize) there was a war during the Clinton years, the on going Drug War. During his second term, Clinton was criticized for being to 'lax' on the Reagan/Bush militant drug war. To compensate, he allotted more funding to the DEA, who in turn incarcerated MORE non-violent drug offenders than the number of those arrested during Reagan's two terms and Bush Sr.'s regime. That move is why the prison industrial complex has been flooded in the past decade and why privite business is reaping the benefits of the marginalized, racially profiled non-violent drug offenders that are incarcerated. Look at the health statistics of ER visits and deaths from drug overdose. A overwhelmingly large amount of drug users that died from overdoses from crack or heroin were caucasian. Hmm, how come the cops didn't arrest them for being non-violent drug users?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Maybe more whites could go to the hospital to be counted in the first place. That's part of it. The other part is racial profiling, leading to more blacks being looked at for drugs, a larger % of blacks having a prior offense, partially due to the same factors, a greater likelihood for the whites to have education/money/lawyers...the list goes on. There are also mandatory minimums that end up letting drug offenders serve longer sentances than murderers in many cases. Additionally, the mandatory minimums are racist. Crack is cheaper than coke and therefore used more often by blacks than whites. The minimums are higher for crack. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Feb 22, 2004, 01:33 pm	#82 (permalink) (top)
PeterAngelo Igneous Magma Posts: 169	It is always a battle of banks - I know. We ARE a war based economy. Among ourselves we survive by working the "underground economy". Those guys holding up the pick-up trucks are holding up the whole country. Right now the Airlines and weapons factories are being supported by the war - if it weren't for the troop and equipment transfers by commercial airlines - with cost plus contracts - the airlines would be dead. The petro-chemical, plastics, and most industry is dependant on our eternal war mongering and exploitation of the third world. The EURO, and our deficit are the threat - we are broke and the world is swarming on us - GOOD. This boil has to burst to begin the healing - the war machine now on the loose will self-destruct in the light of modern communications. Corporate controlled media in America is trumped by everyone everywhere with a computer or TV. The 6,000,000,000 people of the world are the ONLY superpower - America is a dying dragon that is trying to keep Churchill's drunken dream of Empire alive - he died of old age - so did Stalin and Roosevelt - so will the ancient evil empires.

Mar 11, 2004, 04:21 pm	#84 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	To correct Stigmata (and not stigmatize) there was a war during the Clinton years, the on going Drug War. During his second term, Clinton was criticized for being to 'lax' on the Reagan/Bush militant drug war. To compensate, he allotted more funding to the DEA, who in turn incarcerated MORE non-violent drug offenders than the number of those arrested during Reagan's two terms and Bush Sr.'s regime. That move is why the prison industrial complex has been flooded in the past decade and why privite business is reaping the benefits of the marginalized, racially profiled non-violent drug offenders that are incarcerated. Look at the health statistics of ER visits and deaths from drug overdose. A overwhelmingly large amount of drug users that died from overdoses from crack or heroin were caucasian. Hmm, how come the cops didn't arrest them for being non-violent drug users?

Mar 12, 2004, 01:26 am	#88 (permalink) (top)
tivodan1116 Juris Doctor Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 2,045	Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of Americans of any race currently living here did not even have ancestors in this country during the time of slavery. Therefore not only are they not responsible, neither are their ancestors. Everyone can claim to be oppressed in one way or another. My ancestors are Irish. Should I be suing Tony Blair for the way the British mistreated my people over the past 1000 years? A few of my other ancestors are British, do I sue myself? I had one ancestor who fought for the Germans in WWI, and one who fought for the Americans... Who do I sue there...... ad nauseum. Knowing your past is one thing, dwelling on it and blaming it for your present is another. Don't forget... Lawyers were writing the Constitution while doctors were still bleeding people with leeches...

Mar 12, 2004, 04:49 am	#89 (permalink) (top)
AnonT Molten Ash Location: Middle of nowhere, Nebraska Posts: 130	In response to racism and the war on drugs, 70% of drug users are white but only 30% of people in jail for drug use are white. Most states have much harsher penalties for crack cocaine than for ordinary cocaine, even though they're made from the same basic drug and have nearly identical effects; the most prevalent explanation for this being that crack is mainly used by lower class minorities while ordinary cocaine is mainly used by middle and upper class whites. That, and, as the documentary Grass pointed out, most early marijuana laws were used mainly as an excuse to arrest Mexican immigrants. It's much easier to demonize something done by a minority group than it is to demonize something done by a better funded majority.

Mar 12, 2004, 08:15 am	#90 (permalink) (top)
tivodan1116 Juris Doctor Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 2,045	That's an easy enough dilemma for me to solve.... legalize drugs and release anyone in prison on a nonviolent drug offense. Issue resolved. In fact, many MORE issues resolved because the resulting legitimate drug trade formed takes all the crime incentive out of the drug black market and thereby greatly improves lower-income neighborhoods. Don't forget... Lawyers were writing the Constitution while doctors were still bleeding people with leeches...

Mar 13, 2004, 05:24 am	#91 (permalink) (top)
AnonT Molten Ash Location: Middle of nowhere, Nebraska Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tivodan1116,) That's an easy enough dilemma for me to solve.... legalize drugs and release anyone in prison on a nonviolent drug offense. Issue resolved. In fact, many MORE issues resolved because the resulting legitimate drug trade formed takes all the crime incentive out of the drug black market and thereby greatly improves lower-income neighborhoods.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Like, duh.

Mar 15, 2004, 08:08 pm	#92 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	I am very interested in the previous comments posited by AnonT and tivodan. I would like to invite anyone who is more vocal on the drug issue (either for or against, I want both sides) to look at the topic of "War on Drugs" and take my poll. It's quite interesting, it pertains to a very current issue within the US and thanks for your time. "kill, kill, kill, the white man" - Howard Stern in Private Parts

Mar 15, 2004, 08:25 pm	#93 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (NORMLperson,) I am very interested in the previous comments posited by AnonT and tivodan. I would like to invite anyone who is more vocal on the drug issue (either for or against, I want both sides) to look at the topic of "War on Drugs" and take my poll. It's quite interesting, it pertains to a very current issue within the US and thanks for your time. "kill, kill, kill, the white man" - Howard Stern in Private Parts<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Would you post in that topic to bring it up to the top? "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Mar 16, 2004, 05:36 am	#94 (permalink) (top)
AnonT Molten Ash Location: Middle of nowhere, Nebraska Posts: 130	I actually started a poll on the topic in another forum.... about 85% of people here favored at least decriminalization of marijuana, most favoring outright legalization and a lot even favored legalizing all drugs.

Apr 3, 2004, 04:39 pm	#95 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	I think the idea of paying reperations to black people today is rediculous. There are no living ex-slaves, nor are there any ex-slave owners. If there were ex-slaves and ex-owners, I'd say the ex-owners owed the ex-slaves. I as a caucasion had absolutely nothing to do with slavery and I'm not guilty of the sins of these now dead slave owners. Nor are companies that turned a profit back in the slave days guilty of anything today. Minorities in this country are as capable of making a success out of themselves and White folk. To say otherwise is to perpetuate some sort of agenda.

Apr 6, 2004, 06:18 pm	#96 (permalink) (top)
somerandomperson Sedimentary Rock Posts: 4	I agree with dave654 completely. I have not done anything to directly hinder the economic growth of minorities in America, yet I am expected to hand out money to pay "reparations" for something that I have nothing to do with? The wrongs have been done by our ancestors; I will not pay a penny in reparations to ANYBODY. What about the Irish and the Polish (to name just two)? What about the hardships they endured? I realize that they were not held as slaves, but they were treated just as poorly as Black Americans were in the past. I simply do not agree with reparations. IMO, it seems like a method in which some people are trying to get some free money.

Apr 7, 2004, 02:48 pm	#97 (permalink) (top)
ConservativeX Igneous Magma Posts: 259	It's just another method to get money from the Government. Our legal system does NOT hold people liable for their ancestor's mistakes/crimes. Some black people work hard and make it. The rest need to get with it, get off the Government dole and clean up their communities. The foundation of the Constitution is laid on the 10th Amendment. To take a single step beyond is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition - JEFFERSON

Apr 13, 2004, 03:31 am	#98 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	It'll never happen. People are just blowin' off some steam. The logistics alone would be impossible. How could anyone document slave ancestors, most of whom had no birth certificates. When our black friends speak to us of these matters, we (whites) would do best to acknowledge the historical mistreatment todays black people's ancestors suffered. Be sympathetic and understanding, even apologetic for the sins of our White ancestors. Then observe aloud how much better things are nowadays and point out that realistically, Blacks are wasting their time and effort chasing smoke. Say "As your friend, I need to tell you that, just like everybody else, what you should shoot for is education, high personal integrity, a settled life. Reparations is like playing the lottery. If you hit, it's good but the odds are heavy against and why waste your time? The real game (the one life you really have)isn't rigged. Make something out of it!! "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Apr 13, 2004, 06:35 am	#99 (permalink) (top)
ConservativeX Igneous Magma Posts: 259	Nicely stated, PH. Of course, since it makes sense, it will never be done... The foundation of the Constitution is laid on the 10th Amendment. To take a single step beyond is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition - JEFFERSON

Apr 13, 2004, 03:35 pm	#100 (permalink) (top)
damnrad Igneous Magma Posts: 264	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (white rice,) Almost every immigrant group has been oppressed in some form or another. The logistics of handing out a "tax cut" to black people is insane let alone that it doesn't solve shit and will explode the powder keg of racial tensions already in the US.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Almost every immigrant group? Well, consider this: the 'immigrant group' in question involved involuntary immigration: kidnapping and being pressed into slavery. That slavery was then used to build a nation by making productive land stolen from Indians. Much of the wealth of this society was originally built on the backs of slaves forced to work on land stolen from Indians. The 'oppression' that can be compared to what immigrants underwent, although such comparison shows it to have been much worse than what was experienced by any immigrants, was the transformed oppression following the end of slavery (and the stealing of the continent). Reparations are the LEAST that this society owes to descendants of slaves and to American Indians alike.