Looks like a set-up to me. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence that the same man who is responsible for the release of thousands of classified information is also wanted for "sex crimes". I call shenanigans.
Looks like a set-up to me. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence that the same man who is responsible for the release of thousands of classified information is also wanted for "sex crimes". I call shenanigans.
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
It's lonely at the top. The de-humanization of Julian is warming up. Bet Charlie Sheen knows how that can happen. Oh well, live by the sword, die by the press. Not an unexpected development. Assange surely saw it coming.
If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.
When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.
By the way. I got a buck says Julian Assange is Time Magazine's Man of the Year. And if he starts letting out releases about a certain banking outfit and other corporations, as is in the wind, he might not live to see that issue.
If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.
When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.
I don't see how this qualifier changes my point.And, that just applies to classified information. Not to corporate whistle-blowers or standard government leaks.
Oh I knew they did it. I read the Tom Clancy novels, and I suspected they contained grains of truth. I agree that certain diplomatic communications needn't be aired out as dirty laundry; however, I think a public that knows China is unwilling to support North Korea is a very reassuring piece of information that deserves to be public, along with a host of other pieces of diplomatic cables.You are ignoring very obvious reasons to keep things secret. But, if they are not obvious to you, I doubt if I pointed them out it would make much difference. But, for the sake of avoiding being accused of not answering questions, I will try to give you my "angle". Diplomatic relations and negotiations are very much like private conversations. Just like personal letters, the exchange is about information that is expected to be kept between the parties directly involved. In fact, it is more closely akin to the privileged communications between you and a lawyer or you and a doctor. If Saudi Arabia does not feel it can tell the US State Department things in confidence, they will tell us nothing at all. That is cutting ourselves off from a very important flow of information. Just like if you are afraid to tell your doctor you have an STD, it might cause you to remain infected and therefore cause greater risks to you and the community at large.These communications MUST remain private. That you can not see that, I believe, speaks to a certain level of ideological/youthful naivety. Ditto on the shock that our embassies are attempting to spy on people and we are involved in other intelligence work. Do you think the CIA operatives EVER advertise their intent? If you had no idea our government was actively involved in those kind of activities, you have been under a very big rock.
I'll grant you that knowing the State department's personal opinion of Angela Merkel is probably not suitable for public knowledge. But that's it.
I think you're mistaken about the Iranians. Yes, they've always had a sense of nationalism that goes beyond the modern state of Iran, but I don't think their aim is to assert themselves as a world power. I think they're flat out paranoid that the US is going to try to pull an Iraq or Afghanistan on them. We've had a sixty year history of sticking our red, white and blue dick in their affairs, from toppling their regime to supporting a regional rival in a deadly decade-long conflict. They are very unhappy with us because they don't trust us. You're right that they don't actually want to use their nuclear weapons, assuming they get them; they want them to deter a future and almost certainly imminent attack from us. Smart of them, really. When a country really does have weapons of mass destruction, the US doesn't want anything to do with them, except in a 'buddy, pal, friend of mine...' sort of way.I am a pretty idealistic person, but even I am not nearly this naive. First of all, we are not the Saudi's lap dogs, the Saudi royal family are our lap dogs. Needing to tell the Saudi king to fuck off to keep our self respect implies the inverse of the true power relationship. Not one damn nation on earth is silly enough to believe that we are mercenaries, selling our willingness to push our weight around. If, tomorrow, we decided it was in our interest to depose the Saud family, it would be done. And Iran is pursuing their own rational interests. They are not attempting to gain nuclear power because they are concerned we are going to attack them. America could cease to exist tomorrow and they would continue on the path they are on. They want to be the big dogs on their block, they want to increase their power on the world stage and everyone except you and the neo-cons knows that. Our displeasure and power is much more likely to halt their attempts. Our complacent inattention will not "calm" them, it will encourage them. But not for the reasons most people think. They don't want to blow up the world. They just want to be on the same power stage as all the rest of the nations that have the power to blow up the world. They want the nukes, not to use, but to alter their relative weakness. Iranians tend to think of themselves as Persians first. They hate it when people lump them in with the Arabs because they were once the worlds most powerful empire. They have, in the past, occupied the role we occupy now, that Greece and Rome and England occupied. They want a taste of that back.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
Very well executed. I agree completely. Saber-rattling always comes up in US politics, and it's really starting to get old. I'm glad that someone other than myself doesn't believe in the whole Iran thing.I think you're mistaken about the Iranians. Yes, they've always had a sense of nationalism that goes beyond the modern state of Iran, but I don't think their aim is to assert themselves as a world power. I think they're flat out paranoid that the US is going to try to pull an Iraq or Afghanistan on them. We've had a sixty year history of sticking our red, white and blue dick in their affairs, from toppling their regime to supporting a regional rival in a deadly decade-long conflict. They are very unhappy with us because they don't trust us. You're right that they don't actually want to use their nuclear weapons, assuming they get them; they want them to deter a future and almost certainly imminent attack from us. Smart of them, really. When a country really does have weapons of mass destruction, the US doesn't want anything to do with them, except in a 'buddy, pal, friend of mine...' sort of way.
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
There is no evidence showing that Manning had access to or downloaded the diplomatic cables now released. I guess this is why Manning has not been charged with that disclosure. Further, Manning has not been charged with the release of documents pertaining to Iraq and Afghanistan. Manning has been charged with releasing footage showing US soldiers engaged in war crimes, killing civilians.
However, if all I knew on the matter was the content of this thread, I would assume that Manning is the sole supplier of US war and diplomatic secrets. You have deemed the poor man guilty without any opportunity to prove innocence. Classic 'star chamber' behaviour and very ugly.
Otherwise, there is much debate about what purpose these papers serve with claims that the information is already known within the public. Well, if that is the case, what is the public doing about it aside from nothing? After all, a Democracy is for the people, by the people... so the responsibly for all of this ultimately rests with the people... that is, so long as we accept that there is more to Democracy than suffrage. Is it the case then, that the people of the US Democracy want for illegal spying conventions at the expense of allies and not just foes? Is it also the case that the people of the US Democracy want for unprofessional, highly speculative and insulting accounts made of world leaders by Diplomats?
If it is that the people of the US Democracy want for such things, then all we the world are hearing is sour grapes from the people and the govt they sanction, at being found to be duplicitous.
The release of these documents may not be of interest to Americans, since they would seem to sanction the behaviours these documents display, however, it is of interest to non-Americans which represent... the rest of the world. It is giving us an insight into how the people allow their Democracy to be governed... That we are not impressed is the overarching message being sent back to your Democracy. So I guess, if you, the people of your Democracy lack the moral fortitude (and most likely the Democratic authority) to chastise your governing bodies for their duplicitous behaviour, then we the world will and disrespect your people and Democracy all the more for not taking that responsibility yourselves.
You must also understand that Julian Assange is not an American and so has no patriotic claims to your land. Julian is motived by the right to free expression and honours the duty of truth to bring forth justice. He has done nothing illegal in making available documents that have been leaked to him. Indeed to suggest otherwise is to implement every paper and journalist in America who has ever accepted leaked data from an unidentified source.
It seems too that many media agencies are working with the American Democracy to down play the diplomatic cables claiming that it all amounts to gossip and innuendo. That's not true of course. The directives received by diplomats which promoting spying on 'allies' of the US Democracy including biometric data stands in stark contrast to the downplaying game.
Uh, the U.S. Democracy? American Democracy? You've read the same Constitution and Declaration of Independence and you conclude the U.S. is a democracy? How does that work?Quote by: Sappho
If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.
When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.
Hmmm... so the people of the US have forsaken their beloved Democracy but nonetheless allow their Government to claim it in name only so as to justify illegal wars that bring 'democracy' to places such as Iraq.
Why did Americans forsake Democracy? Why do Americans show such passionate support for the Plutocracy you have become? It's not as though they benefit from the wealth that is distributed amongst the very few. Rather they are the work slaves of the rich.
I think I've met you. Maybe. The Workers Party of America was passing out their papers at the mine entrance singing the same song as you. We were such slaves and being taken advantage of by the mine owners that we should give them a little for their newspaper and join them in the workers struggle for freedom. The gal told me she drove a beat up Chrysler when she could afford gas, this after I asked what she drove. I told her to look at what the miners were driving, the slaves. New pickup trucks and new cars. I was married and lived within my means so my car was 2 years old. I told her of us taping bosses up and hanging them upside down from roof bolts, and how when we didn't feel like working or wanted to go fishing we'd take a paid day and go drink some beer and fish at the mine's stocked lake. I asked how much she made standing in the cold rain handing out papers and fliers. Not even minimum wage. When I told her what we slaves made she asked if the mine was hiring.
What is all the excitement about democracy? It is a doomed system. Known it from the start. I'll give you its better than despotism. Hell, even marriage is better than that.
If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.
When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.
She sounds like a fine woman, although way to socialist for my tastes, but no it was not me.
I was the precious princess, you knew in your youth, with affluenza running through her veins and a credit card charged to her parents. I was destined to endure a quality education and well paid employment. Even when I tried to smite that reality by becoming a teenage mum, my parents perceived a need for rescue; returning me to the their lawyerly fold. They won... of course... who can argue with reason and money?
So I raised my two children whilst studying part time and when they were young teenagers and I was 30, I joined the family law firm and learned of the great disenchantment to be found in representing the wealthy greed at the expense of pathetic and victimized poor. Maybe it was I who screwed over that young socialist gal? Who can say.
But it didn't take long for me to switch sides and with my skills serve the public which although frustrating is equally most rewarding.
I'm a democratic, pragmatic, libertarian with a social conscious. I believe in the will of the people and that it is more worthy and more moral than the will of the rich and powerful.
There is no perfect system that will give equality to all, but democracy if it is honoured by the people will at least serve the greatest good for the greatest number. 'Tis a shame that Americans such as yourself are too apathetic to see that and fight for that. Seems y'all fight for the rights of the rich n' powerful instead. It's self flagellation if you ask me.
Julian Assange destroys the blue-dog asshole know as Hillary Clinton:
WikiLeaks Founder Assange to TIME: Clinton 'Should Resign' - Yahoo! News
Add a new asshole to the list: Rep. Candice Miller (R Michigan).
YouTube - "It's Time To Shutdown The Terrorist Website WikiLeaks! Shut It Down! Shut It Down! Shut It Down!"
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
I'm of the opposite opinion. I think a government by law, as provided by the Constitution, will serve those ends better. You've heard of the tyranny of the majority?
I know its hard for someone so filled with the righteousness of their cause to believe it, but there are Americans who work to keep the lights on, the highways passable, and the nursing homes livable whose endeavors leave them little time to take up your mantra. We can't all be at the activist level that you would have us be nor do we all have the self righteous attitude that it seems to require to scold any not meeting those standards you hold so high. Each of our fields of endeavor has equally challenging issues that are as important to us as our coming out of our imagined apathy is to you.'Tis a shame that Americans such as yourself are too apathetic to see that and fight for that. Seems y'all fight for the rights of the rich n' powerful instead. It's self flagellation if you ask me.
What is important, I think, is a free flow of information. WikiLeaks releases files after redacting. The U.S. state department, wisely, refused to take any part in the redaction, though it was a no-win decision. WikiLeaks is the disseminating agent for whistleblowers, whether those be acting of noble cause or rebelliousness of youth, WikiLeaks is serving the function of the free press in the computer age. Where does that leave the traditional media? Not exactly herded beasts, but not exactly on the cutting edge either.
If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.
When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.
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