Portugal, drug model?

[mbc85]

Ten years ago, Portugal had some 100,000 heroin addicts -- about 1 percent of its entire population. HIV infections from injecting drugs were among the highest in Europe.

Now the addict count has been cut nearly in half. HIV infections from drug use have fallen more than 90 percent. And the policy shift responsible for such a dramatic improvement in Portuguese life is something U.S. lawmakers -- watching an escalating drug war on their southern border -- might consider worthy of some attention: decriminalization.

Ten years ago this summer, Portugal became the first country in Europe to decriminalize all illegal drugs -- marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine and even heroin. Hefty fines and prison sentences still await drug traffickers and dealers, but users caught with less than a 10-day supply of any drug are no longer considered criminals. Instead, they're referred to a panel comprised of a drug-treatment specialist, a lawyer and a civil servant, who usually recommend treatment -- and pay for it, too. If the users decline treatment and go back to abusing drugs, that's their prerogative.
Gael Cornier, AP
Men shoot-up together in the slum of Casal Ventoso, in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1999. Since then, the country has embarked on a unique take on its war on drugs.


But statistics show they're not doing that. Instead, about 45 percent of the 100,000 heroin addicts Portugal's Health Ministry recorded in 2000 had by 2008 decided to at least try to quit the habit, without the threat of jail time. And the number of new HIV cases among users fell from 2,508 in the year 2000 to 220 cases in 2008, Alun Jones, a spokesman for the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, told AOL News. "This was a major success," he said.

Pro? Con? would it work? Is this (portugal) example a rational one that should be taken into consideration for the US and even Mexico?

Would we EVER go thru something like this?

Is Portugal's Liberal Drug Policy a Model for US?

[Grogybear]

Pro? Con? would it work? Is this (portugal) example a rational one that should be taken into consideration for the US and even Mexico?

Would we EVER go thru something like this?

Is Portugal's Liberal Drug Policy a Model for US?

I just finished watching a british documentary from Channel 4. Its available on youtube. look for 4od (stands for 4 on demand). Its called "our drugs war". Its worth a look.

Basically, a previously staunch prohibitionist revises his stance having made the documentary and is now in favour of full legalisation.

He goes on to say how to stop people taking drugs Police would need to intercept about 70% or so of drugs. In the UK they intercept less than 1%.
He also explains how the war on drugs in Afghanistan is creating massive corruption within the government and also, simultaneously, funding the taliban while also managing to alienate the general population, who rely on drug farming for feeding their families.
So not only is the US and other countries shooting themselves in the foot but they're also shitting on other countries like Afghanistan, Mexico and Colombia.

On simple grounds of personal freedom I think that all drugs should be treated the same as Alcohol and Tobacco.
Add to that, that there's no way to stop the consumption, criminalisation of users is a massive waste of money in prison costs, locks an entire class and nearly an entire race (poor black people in the big cities in the states) into an existence of crime and finally, drug production and trafficking is probably behind the majority of crime throughout the world.. it rapidly becomes obvious that this crusade of self-righteousness is doing far more harm than just allowing people to get high.

Do I think you'll actually adopt such a thing? No. The conservatives will see to that. Maybe someday but not any time soon.
Of course, less stupid countries in Europe adopting it, and it being seen to have worked could help the US pull its head out of its asshole and actually address the problem of drugs properly.

[mbc85]

I dont think we would ever agree on legalizing the consumption of drugs. Not in the US, our religious retards wont allow it.

and since the US rules The American continent, well at least to the south of its border, no one else is doing so.

When Fox was president he had a plan to legalize cocaine in small amounts. Bush said no no no. and well look at them now.

[grandpa]

I dont think we would ever agree on legalizing the
consumption of drugs.
Not in the US, our religious retards wont allow it.

True, but listen to this:
#10: Legalize All Drugs | Dangerous Ideas | Big Think

Grandpa h.

[Grogybear]

True, but listen to this:
#10: Legalize All Drugs | Dangerous Ideas | Big Think

Grandpa h.

This is from your link:

"Why We Should Reject This

“Legalized access to drugs would increase drug-related suffering dramatically,” wrote John Walters, the U.S. drug czar from 2000-2009, in a Wall Street Journal op-ed last year. Walters argued that the violence along the Mexican border is “dwarfed” by the violence in our own communities caused by people under the influence of drugs. “Roughly 80% of child abuse and neglect cases are tied to the use and abuse of drugs.”

Walters also attacked the claim that greater availability doesn’t increase consumption. In the late 19th century when opiate- and cocaine-based remedies were widely available in the US without penalty, addiction was “rampant.” The same was true in China with opium, and the same is true now in Thailand, Malaysia, Iran, and Afghanistan, where heroin is easily accessible. The methamphetamine epidemic of the 90s and early 2000s was fueled by easy access to homemade meth, but when the U.S. cracked down on the drug several years ago, use and supply dropped sharply: by 60% or more between 2002 and 2008.

The war on drugs has had tangible success in recent years. “Half as many teens are using drugs than 30 years ago and a quarter fewer than seven years ago,” wrote Walters. Now is not the time to drop our guard. "

What a total pile of nonsense.
Particularly this part:

"Legalized access to drugs would increase drug-related suffering dramatically,” wrote John Walters, the U.S. drug czar from 2000-2009, in a Wall Street Journal op-ed last year. Walters argued that the violence along the Mexican border is “dwarfed” by the violence in our own communities caused by people under the influence of drugs."

Thats possibly the biggest pile of shit i've ever seen. I can only assume that the author of that statement was being intentionally deceitful.

The guy from the video is exactly whats needed. Much like the former head of the UK's government taskforce for fighting drugs, David Nutt (who was sacked for attempting to bring logic into a debate thats dominated by emotion and bullshit), seeing rational professional people, as opposed to smelly hippies or drunk/stoned college students, champion legalisation or at least a rational discussion could be key to turning the tide.

[mbc85]

I am not really worried about the "hardcore" users that exist right now. i am more worried about the "hardcore" users that will become "hardcore" users in the next 10 years.

We worry about the border and the safety there is there, but if we do legalize ALL drugs, Mexico will follow our lead and there goes most of the violence. Of course there will be the first reaction violence to the move but after that, i predict, there will be less violence, way less, after that.

[Grogybear]

I am not really worried about the "hardcore" users that exist right now. i am more worried about the "hardcore" users that will become "hardcore" users in the next 10 years.

We worry about the border and the safety there is there, but if we do legalize ALL drugs, Mexico will follow our lead and there goes most of the violence. Of course there will be the first reaction violence to the move but after that, i predict, there will be less violence, way less, after that.

About 30000 murders a year less I suspect...

[NoJingoLingo]

Our government is irrational, illogical and in the pocket of Special Interests, therefore, nothing rational or logical can come from the government. Only the People can make changes in attitude which can sometimes creep into the political system. If the government can make lots of money from taxation it might be pushed into doing something but surely it will be something stupid, like the health insurance reform Bill, et al.

[grandpa]

Our government is irrational, illogical and in the pocket of
Special Interests, therefore, nothing rational or logical can come from
the government.
Only the People can make changes in attitude which can
sometimes creep into the political system.

A good description of the average political, corporate or religious leader:

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or
behavior), need for admiration, and lack of
empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present
in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or
more) of the following:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance
(e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents,
expects to be recognized as superior without
commensurate achievements)
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited
success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and
unique and can only be understood by, or should
associate with, other special or high-status
people (or institutions)
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable
expectations of especially favorable treatment or
automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes
advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or
identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. Is often envious of others or believes that
others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Grandpa h.