Stop Conservatives from Voting

[Dodds]

Hows about the roads outside your house? Who should pay for them? Not you surely, you dont own them, you dont keep them, oh that robbing government. Curse them.

I truly wish that the first sentence in the above was a real question and not a desperate "debating point".

Because there are answers to that and many other intelligent reasonable questions that anyone might have about conservatism.

What I am about to say is meant as an attempt to help you as opposed to "winning" this argument.

YOU ARE A MAN Dodds. No one else or any other entity is required or obligated to take care of you--to feed you, give you electricity or free medical care.

So appealing to my masculinity now? I am afraid the government is obliged to provide me with food and medical care to the best standard of the society.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have the right to struggle to survive and if you start a family you have the responsibility to help them--but you do NOT have the right to force people whom you don't know and will never meet to provide anything for you.

They don't owe you anything. They are living their lives and feeding their families and they have no right to compel YOU to help THEM either.

Society is there to improve peoples lives, paying back to society is what every MAN has a duty to do. Society is good to you so you should repay the favour.

Help, charity, compassion--those are all good things--WHEN THEY ARE VOLOUNTARY

You expressed an earlier concern about "slavery". Stop engaging in it. You want the government to provide you with medical care. Since government cannot create personnel or equipment they must force the people currently in the profession to provide it for you. Yes, they must force them on your behalf. That is slavery pure and simple

Sorry but working for a government run program is not and never will be slavery. People get paid to work for the state. People get time off when working for the state. The slavery you speak of could so easily be turned around to include the private sector. You MUST be there on time, you MUST do whatever tasks are set you, you MUST work whatever hours they set you. How is that any different to working for a state institution?

Also when has anyone every given to charity on a non voluntary basis?

Charity and compassion are things that are prominent in our society. If there is a problem then the government are there to "sort it out". What you advocate is being a slave to the market. Which never works out well for the majority of people.

Stop using the government as a moral shield to hide from yourself and others that the way you choose to live your life is by plunder, theft and robbery.

Or be man enough to steal, rob and plunder on your own and face the consequences, rather than having the government do it for you.

Stop using the false assertion that people who are unemployed or homeless are lazy. Paying tax is not theft. We all benefit from society, therefore we all pay for it. And we pay for a pretty damned fine service when it is run correctly.

Just speaking for myself, when I held your views, one of the reasons I automatically assumed that government was the only means by which we can improve our society is because I truly thought there was no other way. (as in, gee we have to HAVE to have government for roads)

I was wrong then as you are now. There are many many ways to make it a better world without government. Remember, man was here before government--not the other way around. Government is A tool, not THEE tool.

When I see low cost housing and full employment I say "Hey thats government policies working" when I see a man in a box on the streets I say "hey there is a victim of the free market". When you see people being charged more for a lesser service you will also see thats a by product of the free market. Quite simple.

If you ever become curious about those alternatives, I'd like to suggest you read "CAPITALISM AND FREEDOM" by Milton Friedman and/or "FREE TO CHOOSE" by the same author.

Consider reading them for the same reason I did at the time. So that you can know your ideological opponent. Don't rely upon anonymous guys like me to make the best presentation of conservative alternatives--go right to the source and "get the goods on us".

I already know conservative ideals, and they sicken me. The world should not be the haves and have nots but the haves and the have mores.

The more social a democracy the lower the crime rate, the higher the standard of living, the happier and healthier the people.

If you advocate conservationism then you are looking at ideologically scrapping the minimum wage, not providing people with a safe standard of housing, unsafe working conditions, paid for water, healthcare etc. Not a world I would wish to live in. Not a world anyone would wish to live in.

I hope someday you do because it will be a life changing event. Others, now long gone did the same for me. The only way I can thank them is to return the favor to others...

I am afraid it will not be. My personal hero is Tony Benn. One of the few MPs who was not out for himself.(see socialism, not trying to line his own pockets but improve the standard of society) He was there to improve the standard of living of everybody. Conservationism is there to keep the poor poor and the rich rich. All this bollocks about he who works hardest will get the most rewards is crap also. How does a Merchant banker work harder than a coal miner?

YouTube - Tony Benn -- The issue is Thatcher

The great man speaks.

You may think I am talking about scraping the free market, no I say regulation of the free market is the way forwards. Government owned and run corporations are also a move in the right direction. It does not mean that the services will be free, but that the services will be run by the people for the people.

[Chris the Chees]

Rocketman, I like the fact that you made a several hundred word post, yet managed to utterly ignore the point and insead merely spout rhetoric. Impressive.

[Rocketman]

Chris, Thank you. Perhaps you'll re-read my first couple of sentences to understand what I was hoping to achieve.

I gave it my best shot and wouldn't mind at all if you considered what I had to say as well.

Dodds seems to know everything there is to know about conservatism but perhaps you have not quite reached his stage of omniscience.

If such is the case, by all means look at what Mr. Friedman has to say.

[Dodds]

Chris, Thank you. Perhaps you'll re-read my first couple of sentences to understand what I was hoping to achieve.

I gave it my best shot and wouldn't mind at all if you considered what I had to say as well.

Dodds seems to know everything there is to know about conservatism but perhaps you have not quite reached his stage of omniscience.

If such is the case, by all means look at what Mr. Friedman has to say.

Hey I don't claim to know everything, I just know enough to say that conservatism does not work for most people. And what I know disgusts me. making people homeless and jobless while giving yourself a massive bonus is immoral in my humble opinion. I also think that making products over seas because you can use slave wages is also disgusting. But hey what ever keeps those profit margins up.

[Rocketman]

Dodds says,

I am afraid the government is obliged to provide me with food and medical care to the best standard of the society.

It's often constructive to isolate the exact areas of disagreement and I believe we've done that here.

I say the government, which is really a metaphor for "others", is NOT obliged to feed you or give you medical care

You say they ARE.

Which moral system is the best?

I would answer that question with a question--which moral system requires the initiation of force from one man or group against another man or group?

[Rocketman]

Dodds says

I already know conservative ideals, and they sicken me.

and...

Hey I don't claim to know everything, I just know enough to say that conservatism does not work for most people.

There's that evil twin again.

[SoylentGreen]

Dodds says,



It's often constructive to isolate the exact areas of disagreement and I believe we've done that here.

I say the government, which is really a metaphor for "others", is NOT obliged to feed you or give you medical care

You say they ARE.

Which moral system is the best?

I would answer that question with a question--which moral system requires the initiation of force from one man or group against another man or group?

It would be the one where the capitalist steals the profits from those who actually labor to produce the wealth. The capitalist parasite does not ask permission and demands the right to control the labor of others.

[Dodds]

Dodds says,



It's often constructive to isolate the exact areas of disagreement and I believe we've done that here.

I say the government, which is really a metaphor for "others", is NOT obliged to feed you or give you medical care

You say they ARE.

Which moral system is the best?

I would answer that question with a question--which moral system requires the initiation of force from one man or group against another man or group?

Both do actually. One uses less force and creates more freedom, depending on your definition of freedom of course.

Would it be fair to compare a social democratic country and a conservative country?

[Rocketman]

Soylent,

I think you're a little beyond help...

Good luck to you and especially to your victims.

[Dodds]

Dodds says



and...



There's that evil twin again.

Oh jeez here we go again.

Ideals:a standard or principle to be aimed at:tolerance and freedom, the liberal ideals

Everything: all things:

This evil twin of mine only exists in your head.

[SoylentGreen]

Soylent,

I think you're a little beyond help...

Good luck to you and especially to your victims.

And i see you have complete inability to supply a rebuttal.
But then what can one expect from someone who shows little in the way of an intelligent approach to this subject.

[Rocketman]

Dodds says,

Both do actually

Really??!!

With my system, I ask nothing from you except to be left alone and you ask nothing from me except the same. How does that end up with one of us initiating force?