Diversity programs; racism that should be stopped.

[Mr.Vicchio]

rac·ism 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism

By using the very definition of Racism, I ask how anyone can honestly support Affermitve action and "diversity enhancement" programs.

I ask this in light of the up comming election because Senator Kerry supports such and President Bush isn't very keen on them. Its one of the more clear difference between the two parties as a whole.

I am a student of MLKJr.: "Judge a man on the merits of his Character, not the color of his skin"

I try to live by those words, and nothing gets my blood boiling more then to hear Republicans called racist... for not supporting programs that are inherintly racist.

The true problems that lie at the root of society, poor education, poverty and the like, cannot be solved by programs that ignore these issues in favor giving special treatment to minorites. Its an insult to every man woman and child in America to say that a black person cannot achieve without assistance from a government program.

My favorite example of this is a little scenario I put together, yeah its a tad simplified but its a pretty good example of how damaging "diversity" and "Affirmitive Action" is in real life.

You and your good friend Pam start high school, you work your TAIL off, Straight A's Honor Roll, advance classess, the whole shabang. Pam on the other hand, coasts through HS with a B average at best. Pams a "minority" doesn't matter what minority you pick, any. Your parents are middle class, there is no difference aside your skin color between you. You both apply to the "Big University" because you both want to pursue the same degree, and Big U is the best in the country for that degree. You are denied, she gets in, WITH a scholarship.... How do you feel the next day, the next week? Take it the next step, you both graduate, you went to the next best school for the degree, you graduate top honors, she graduates with average grades. You both want to work for Company X. Cause company X is hot hiring people with your degree, they pay weel, benifits are top notch. You both are in the running, but you are told "Sorry, you aren't what we are looking for" she gets the job. Now how do you feel? You end up taking a job with Company Y, less pay, lower benifits... 8 years of hard work for nothing because the government has pushed "diversity" and you aren't the right color. Well lets take this just one more step. Company X buys out Company Y, and you and Pam work together for the next five years, your both high up, but the person just above you retires. The company decides to look in house for a replacement. Its between you, Pam and two others. You know you put in the extra hours, work harder, you had brought in more business whatever... you know, everyone knows oyu are the more qualified all around. She gets the job, privatly, you are told that the Government had come by a month before and complained that the board room lacked "diversity" Pam's got the big corner office, the 6 figure income... your hard work for the last 18 YEARS is all for naught, because you lack the right skin color. Thats diversity in action. Racist buisnesses, schools and institutions CAN be delt with, punished, and they SHOULD BE, at every wrong turn. But punishing or rewarding someone based on thier skin color is IMHO evil to its core.

[Gorgo]

Please back up your post with facts, not stories.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Gorgo, it was an emaple of how diversity and affermitive action are detrimental. Do you disagree with the premis of the "story" do you disagree or agree that "diversity enhancement and affermitve action" is racist?

Thats the issue. The Story is a vehicle to convey the dangers of such programs.

[bishop]

i'd love to see affirmative action abolished. it is most certainly legalized discrimination.

anti-discriminary laws should remain though.

i had to take a "racial issues" class during my undergrad.. the text classified people who are opposed to a.a. as being racists. while some people who oppose a.a. are racists, it's one hell of an overgeneralization to claim that all of them are.

[Mr.Vicchio]

There are ways of combating racism in business, education and life in general. That's a role any honest society must stand vigilant in defending against.

But to promote programs that are racist to combat racism boggles the mind.

[bishop]

there was a reason for it in the beginning.. i can accept that - society had to change to accept blacks/minorities in the workplace.

personally, i believe that we have overcome the racism. or at least as good as we're going to. nothing you can do will eliminate rednecks.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I am a redneck,a nd find that statement to be unbelievably offensive bishop.

30 years ago, programs that ensured that people were not held back because of racist jerks, was acceptable. Today those programs are free rides if your the right color, and stop signs if you're not.

[Gorgo]

This from a guy that thinks wsws has crazy ideas, but extremist right wing comic books like frontpagemag.com is sensible.

Here's a few facts that Vicchio won't read:

http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/199.../mar_13wise.htm

http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/200...4-04/20wise.cfm

[bishop]

I am a redneck,a nd find that statement to be unbelievably offensive bishop. 30 years ago, programs that ensured that people were not held back because of racist jerks, was acceptable. Today those programs are free rides if your the right color, and stop signs if you're not.

heh.. that's too bad.

and i agree with the second part.. i think i pretty much said the same thing myself.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Gorgo, you are using Zmag as a source, that right there disqualifies any link included. Zmag is left wing trash that equals frontpagemag for bias and partisanship.

If you are gonna slam FPM, but use places like Zmag, you need to read the story of the pot and the kettle...
reapeatedly.

[Gorgo]

Where to find crazy ideas:
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/index.php?a...alluser&mid=798

[Gorgo]

Again, waiting for facts or serious discussion. Otherwise, let's Butterface this thread.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Gorgo, if you don't want to debate this sucject, leave... you don't have to try and butterface every subject you dislike. There is plenty here to debate, and not every subject requires numbers, stats or "sources"


This is what we call, an opinion peice. This is my opinion, if you don't like it say so, otherwise, go bother someone else.

[Gorgo]

I've brought facts into this discussion, all you've brought is racist nonsense. Support your opinion with facts, or stop starting insulting, offensive threads. Where are your facts? All you can do is insult.

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Gorgo, if you don't want to debate this sucject, leave... you don't have to try and butterface every subject you dislike. There is plenty here to debate, and not every subject requires numbers, stats or "sources" This is what we call, an opinion peice. This is my opinion, if you don't like it say so, otherwise, go bother someone else.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Please point out where my thread is "Insulting or offensive" .

Facts? its an opinion peice gorgo, get it?


In my opinion anyprogram that forces "diversity" is racist and wrong.

[Suburbanite]

this topic already exists.

[castille]

Being a minority race who pays all my taxes (and a hell lot of it), why don't I get free money like everyone else?

[Karin]

A few Questions...

1. How long have blacks people been in this country, and how many years were they slaves?

2. How long ago was the civil rights movement?

3. Has racism been illegal longer than it was American Policy?

I COMPLETELY disagree that racism is no longer a problem in america. Even if there is not overt racism, the impact of years of repression has not yet been countered.

Black people were kept from being educated, and when tehy were finally allowed to go to school, their education was incredibly inferior to the "white" schools. (read Brown v. Board of Education, it wasn't very long ago.)

These students who were not given an education grew up unable to get the same jobs that students who received a decent education would be able to get. Their income was substantially lower than their white counterparts. This means that their children did not live in areas with good school with good programs, and probably had to go to work at a young age instead of study for the sat's. This also means that they did not have the tools or financial means to get in to college.
This is the current black America. They are definitely in a better position than they were in 1950, but do they have the same opportunities as white america?

I don't think so. I think we need to calm down and give things a bit more time before we turn our backs to the injustice that we created by saying, "that doesn't happen anymore."

[Suburbanite]

the real question: Did the Civil Rights movement accomplish anything but pushing racism behind the public eye?