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castille · Oct 6, 2004, 12:52 am

There's often the notion of people being "happy" by being decieved. For example, once upon a time, 10-year-old children sang and danced and play with the flowers in the park, without knowing about imperialism and colonisation and communism and the slaughter of millions of American natives.

Today 10-year-old children hear news stories about pregnant women in Rwanda whose fetuses were cut out by machetes, so he is happy with the world, or African soldiers gangraping 10-year-old children then cutting their heads off and hanging it around their neck as a war trophy. Or burying Albanian babies alive while their parents watch, then forcing the parents to dig up the babies to eat them while still alive. As news stories become more realistic, more horrors are seen.

In the background, the 10-year-old children of today watches without batting an eyelid.

Do you believe people must be forced into the reality of the world, and must be forced to know about the atrocities and horrors inflicted by ?

Or do you believe that people have the right to decieve themselves in order to be happy? After all, as the argument goes, ignorance is bliss, so why spoil it?

Suburbanite · Oct 6, 2004, 05:45 am

people dont need assistance to decieve themselves, their brain is capable of doing it by itself.

Iluvatar · Oct 6, 2004, 08:04 am

Few kids these day are 'forced' into reality, few parents make them watch news.

Regardless, though, ignoring what is happening in the world does not mean it is not happening. Ignorance is bliss, but ignoring reality does not mean it no longer happens, just that you don't know about it. For one thing, you sited some extreme examples; few news stories are quite that bad. Kids will have to be made aware of the world around them at some age, and I see no point in witholding it from them. I believe that when a child is aware enough to ask for knowledge of almost sort, they should be able to get it.

Gorgo · Oct 6, 2004, 08:35 am

Knowledge does not equal unhappiness.

Believing in Santa Claus and gods and fairies and messiahs do not make people happy.

The decision to be happy is what "makes" people happy.

castille · Oct 6, 2004, 10:06 am

But in knowing the sharper end of reality, I would doubt it makes a sheltered person happy. Most middle-class Americans, I would assume, see less than a few hundred deaths in person, and maybe less than a few thousand on TV/computer games, during their lifetime (I may be wrong since I'm not American, so if the number is higher, feel free to say so).

By "force" I do not mean rip a person's eyelids off and sit him in front of the TV. I refer to simply informing the person about the realities of the world (ie. casually mentioning to a sheltered kid that kids like him in Rwanda usually get raped, disembowelled, then killed).

If people are happy the way they are, without having to know what goes on in the world, do you believe it is your patriotic duty to inform them of the horrors of the world? Or are you happy letting them remain blissfully unaware, as it cannot affect them?

Paavo · Oct 6, 2004, 10:10 am

I'm for a "soft landing" onto cold reality. I don't think I can come up with a static age for when a kid is old enough to digest the harsh issues and happenings, it's probably extremely individual. I think a good parent sees when the time is right. I do though, strongly believe in not filtering the truth to anyone old enough for it. Show what it looks like after a grenade go off in a room, show what a soldier looks like after a round from an M16. Without knowing what it looks like, how can anyone even start to understand it's concequences and results? Show it all, the more it makes one sick, the more one is ready to stop it happening.

EDIT: Damn, crossposted with Castille.

prettyredhead · Oct 6, 2004, 02:06 pm

Children should be happy. Let them. They have the rest of their lives to be unhappy. Jesus, why shove it down their throats? And btw I havent seen these stories on the news.
And furthermore, if we are "fighting terror" then why the hell arent we in Rowanda again? Cuz we dont have the manpower.
Chopping out babies is far more barbaric than running planes into skyscrapers. What a sick fucking world. I regret having children most of the time, for they have to live in this cesspool of a world. What is going to be left for our children? I want troops to stop the slaughter of children in other countries.
We are not at war with terror. IT is only about Iraqis, and because they "hate" America. Cant hate us, I suppose. That must be against the law. So lets make 75% of the rest of the world hate us too, such as we have now. ..... :rolleyes:

Lava · Oct 6, 2004, 06:31 pm

1. Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance equals lacking understanding and knowledge, and those mean making bad decisions in life, and that means failures suffering and unhappiness.

2. How about letting kids find out what they want when they want. Mostly they can decide ok, at leaat once theyre, what, vague guess at 10 or so.

3. > Most middle-class Americans, I would assume, see less than a few hundred deaths in person,

good god no, nothing like that. Is it that rough where you are?

4. > What a sick fucking world.

Yeah sadly. But only some of it. Plenty of good as well. I can look at how to succeed in my own life and amke the best of it, or sit and dwell on the bad things. I do a gratitude list when I feel like that.

Lava

Oct 6, 2004, 12:52 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	There's often the notion of people being "happy" by being decieved. For example, once upon a time, 10-year-old children sang and danced and play with the flowers in the park, without knowing about imperialism and colonisation and communism and the slaughter of millions of American natives. Today 10-year-old children hear news stories about pregnant women in Rwanda whose fetuses were cut out by machetes, so he is happy with the world, or African soldiers gangraping 10-year-old children then cutting their heads off and hanging it around their neck as a war trophy. Or burying Albanian babies alive while their parents watch, then forcing the parents to dig up the babies to eat them while still alive. As news stories become more realistic, more horrors are seen. In the background, the 10-year-old children of today watches without batting an eyelid. Do you believe people must be forced into the reality of the world, and must be forced to know about the atrocities and horrors inflicted by ? Or do you believe that people have the right to decieve themselves in order to be happy? After all, as the argument goes, ignorance is bliss, so why spoil it? Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 6, 2004, 08:04 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Iluvatar Sedimentary Rock Location: In front of a computer Posts: 18	Few kids these day are 'forced' into reality, few parents make them watch news. Regardless, though, ignoring what is happening in the world does not mean it is not happening. Ignorance is bliss, but ignoring reality does not mean it no longer happens, just that you don't know about it. For one thing, you sited some extreme examples; few news stories are quite that bad. Kids will have to be made aware of the world around them at some age, and I see no point in witholding it from them. I believe that when a child is aware enough to ask for knowledge of almost sort, they should be able to get it. [center]-=Iluvatar=- The truest sign of wisdom is the ability to seek it in your opponent.[/center]

Oct 6, 2004, 10:06 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	But in knowing the sharper end of reality, I would doubt it makes a sheltered person happy. Most middle-class Americans, I would assume, see less than a few hundred deaths in person, and maybe less than a few thousand on TV/computer games, during their lifetime (I may be wrong since I'm not American, so if the number is higher, feel free to say so). By "force" I do not mean rip a person's eyelids off and sit him in front of the TV. I refer to simply informing the person about the realities of the world (ie. casually mentioning to a sheltered kid that kids like him in Rwanda usually get raped, disembowelled, then killed). If people are happy the way they are, without having to know what goes on in the world, do you believe it is your patriotic duty to inform them of the horrors of the world? Or are you happy letting them remain blissfully unaware, as it cannot affect them? Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 6, 2004, 05:45 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	people dont need assistance to decieve themselves, their brain is capable of doing it by itself.

Oct 6, 2004, 08:35 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Knowledge does not equal unhappiness. Believing in Santa Claus and gods and fairies and messiahs do not make people happy. The decision to be happy is what "makes" people happy.

Oct 6, 2004, 10:10 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	I'm for a "soft landing" onto cold reality. I don't think I can come up with a static age for when a kid is old enough to digest the harsh issues and happenings, it's probably extremely individual. I think a good parent sees when the time is right. I do though, strongly believe in not filtering the truth to anyone old enough for it. Show what it looks like after a grenade go off in a room, show what a soldier looks like after a round from an M16. Without knowing what it looks like, how can anyone even start to understand it's concequences and results? Show it all, the more it makes one sick, the more one is ready to stop it happening. EDIT: Damn, crossposted with Castille.

Oct 6, 2004, 02:06 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
prettyredhead Igneous Magma Posts: 336	Children should be happy. Let them. They have the rest of their lives to be unhappy. Jesus, why shove it down their throats? And btw I havent seen these stories on the news. And furthermore, if we are "fighting terror" then why the hell arent we in Rowanda again? Cuz we dont have the manpower. Chopping out babies is far more barbaric than running planes into skyscrapers. What a sick fucking world. I regret having children most of the time, for they have to live in this cesspool of a world. What is going to be left for our children? I want troops to stop the slaughter of children in other countries. We are not at war with terror. IT is only about Iraqis, and because they "hate" America. Cant hate us, I suppose. That must be against the law. So lets make 75% of the rest of the world hate us too, such as we have now. ..... :rolleyes:

Oct 6, 2004, 06:31 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Lava Igneous Magma Posts: 716	1. Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance equals lacking understanding and knowledge, and those mean making bad decisions in life, and that means failures suffering and unhappiness. 2. How about letting kids find out what they want when they want. Mostly they can decide ok, at leaat once theyre, what, vague guess at 10 or so. 3. > Most middle-class Americans, I would assume, see less than a few hundred deaths in person, good god no, nothing like that. Is it that rough where you are? 4. > What a sick fucking world. Yeah sadly. But only some of it. Plenty of good as well. I can look at how to succeed in my own life and amke the best of it, or sit and dwell on the bad things. I do a gratitude list when I feel like that. Lava