Vegetarianism

[Osborn F Enready]

Kuldeep said: That is exactly my point, human has layed hands on everything, meat as well as vegetables! Whereas most of the animals have fixed to either vegetables or meat. They are not dishonest like humans!

This has nothing to do with being dishonest, it has everything to do with our NATURAL ability to adapt to changing enviroments, and our ability to build tools.

Kuldeep said: The point to be discussed should be which category humans fall into, meat eating or vegetable eating! Leaving that too a side, we have current statistical data pure vegetatrains have less chances of diseases like hypertension, heart attacks etc. In nutshell, vegetarians live with comparatively lesser diseases than their meat eating counter part.

And I would be willing to bet these tests were very limited as far as people participating (per lifestyle type) as well as these people having full advantage of a line of vegetables from around the world that would support their nutrition necessities.(access to the worlds market of vegetables and fruits)

Show me some strength atheletes who are vegetarian, and equal to those in strength and ability as meat eaters of the SAME lifestyle.

Show me some vegetarians who have survived in harsh enviroments (stranded) away from civilization and or "their" gardens.

Vegetarians are STRICTLY societal reliant in any number.
Meat eaters can be either hunter gatherer, or societal.

Kuldeep said: Yes, in effort to keep our bodies healthier with only vegetable eating in future time to come, there would be an automatic check on unwarranted animal killings for human food. Meaning, not for animal's sake but for our own sake we would try to change over to vegetarian diet.

This quest towards vegetarianism is against the nature of man (hunter gatherer-individual independence) and is against the nature of humans, since humans evolve throughout their life from collective (birth family), to individual, to collective (YOUR family). Vegetarianism, removes independence from the individual.

If perhaps, we could terraform the world and make all land equally productive, all people could have a CHOICE to become vegetarian, but right now the reliance on politics to allow the market to meet the needs for its people, leaves the people with little to no hand in choice if their land doesn't support it. (robbing their independence, making them fully DEPENDENT on the market)

Kuldeep said: Concluding, I would ask you why human is not killing animals like other meat eating animal does?

What do you mean? Same methods? We can, and do.
Why aren't we eating humans for food? Some societies do, we don't because our knowledge has evolved to recognize and breed meat to eat that is not human.
Why are we not equally deadly without manmade tools? We are, just not in the form of claws or teeth, instead using our minds to set traps and ambush dangerous animals in large numbers as humans.

Kuldeep said: The reason basically for that is human is not meat eating animal anatomically. Change from meat eating habit to vegetable eating has started due to current medical opinion. It might take a centuary or two as transition period to revert human race back to its original vegetarian diet.

It will take much longer than that, because the human being were NEVER vegetarian by nature. Our predecessors may have been, in other words, WHAT we evolved from may have been, but we never were.

[brien]

Osborn wrote:

It will take much longer than that, because the human being were NEVER vegetarian by nature. Our predecessors may have been, in other words, WHAT we evolved from may have been, but we never were.

I say man has a choice and, obviously in Western Civilization, it seems the majority of people prefer eating meat and make that choice freely in light of a alternative vegetarian diet. Unless the vegans think all meat eaters are stupid, the majority of the population feel there is nothing wrong with the consumption of meat. Vegans need to accept and be tolerant of the choices of others in society.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: brien I say man has a choice and, obviously in Western Civilization, it seems the majority of people prefer eating meat and make that choice freely in light of a alternative vegetarian diet. Unless the vegans think all meat eaters are stupid, the majority of the population feel there is nothing wrong with the consumption of meat. Vegans need to accept and be tolerant of the choices of others in society.

That's exactly what I was trying to point out before SHW started to ignore my points.

How we value an animal is subjective, and vegans have no right to impose their subjective opinion on to me.

[namguy69]

Quote by: brien Osborn wrote: I say man has a choice and, obviously in Western Civilization, it seems the majority of people prefer eating meat and make that choice freely in light of a alternative vegetarian diet. Unless the vegans think all meat eaters are stupid, the majority of the population feel there is nothing wrong with the consumption of meat. Vegans need to accept and be tolerant of the choices of others in society.

I don't personally care what people eat, or do, or say so long as they're not bothering me.

[brien]

Quote by: namguy69 I don't personally care what people eat, or do, or say so long as they're not bothering me.

nameguy; I think you mistakenly attributed my quote to OS. I don't mind, but I always own up to what I write here.

[namguy69]

Quote by: brien nameguy; I think you mistakenly attributed my quote to OS. I don't mind, but I always own up to what I write here.

So? Your point being?

[Athena]

Quote by: G. Adams I don't know how anyone who grew up as omniverous can go veggie, one whiff of a bacon sandwhich and i'd break.

Not if you were getting too big for your clothes, and seriously didn't want to buy a size larger. Most my life I ate anything I wanted and never gained much. Now my body is making 3 pounds of fat out of every calorie consumed, so I am not eating a lot of things I would love to eat.

Also I have a limited income and rather not spend money on meat.

I don't have to cook for others, so I am getting lazy, and find salads in the summer, and vegatables with tofu in the winter pretty easy to prepare.

I am very attracted to East Indian foods!

One more reason for at least reducing the meat I consume, is it takes too much land and energy for meat. Our heavy meat diet is not possible around the world, so for moral reasons, I favor foods that can sustain the world.

Another moral concern is it might not be a good thing having an industry that requires humans to kill.

[brien]

Quote by: namguy69 So? Your point being?

Is it not obvious? My point is that you mistakenly attributed my quote to Osborn. One of us is confused and I don't think it is me.

[namguy69]

Quote by: Athena Not if you were getting too big for your clothes, and seriously didn't want to buy a size larger. Most my life I ate anything I wanted and never gained much. Now my body is making 3 pounds of fat out of every calorie consumed, so I am not eating a lot of things I would love to eat. Also I have a limited income and rather not spend money on meat. I don't have to cook for others, so I am getting lazy, and find salads in the summer, and vegatables with tofu in the winter pretty easy to prepare. I am very attracted to East Indian foods! One more reason for at least reducing the meat I consume, is it takes too much land and energy for meat. Our heavy meat diet is not possible around the world, so for moral reasons, I favor foods that can sustain the world. Another moral concern is it might not be a good thing having an industry that requires humans to kill.

Humans killing animals, I hardly think the killing of animals for human consumption falls under killing.
East Indian food, had a very bad experence with that. Loaded with curry, hot as hell, spicy...don't care for it at all. I thought my stomach was going to turn in side out!
You favor foods that can sustain the world, well pork, beef, and the many types of foul on earth will fit the bill, not mention the endless supply fish in the oceans and seas, along with a wide variety vegtables.
As for killing animals for human comsumption, it's not a moral issue at all.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Well yah, given the choice between human meat and a carrot, i'd choose the carrot. Although I don't think it's quite as prevalent as you say.

But if you were starving, you'd take a taste of the meat.

People used to take extra guides with them on explorations just in case they ran out of chow and had to nibble on a local.

[Logjam]

Quote by: namguy69 Humans killing animals, I hardly think the killing of animals for human consumption falls under killing.

It's called hunting, and sure it's killing. If you hunt you will note that after you've been successful your game is dead as a door nail.

However, killing while hunting is not murder. Nor is it illegal (unless poaching).

Killing people is not always murder either. In warfare killing is the means to your end; which is victory of course....

[namguy69]

Quote by: Logjam It's called hunting, and sure it's killing. If you hunt you will note that after you've been successful your game is dead as a door nail. However, killing while hunting is not murder. Nor is it illegal (unless poaching). Killing people is not always murder either. In warfare killing is the means to your end; which is victory of course....

I agree with you 100%.

[kubedawg]

Quote by: Athena Not if you were getting too big for your clothes, and seriously didn't want to buy a size larger. Most my life I ate anything I wanted and never gained much. Now my body is making 3 pounds of fat out of every calorie consumed, so I am not eating a lot of things I would love to eat. Also I have a limited income and rather not spend money on meat. I don't have to cook for others, so I am getting lazy, and find salads in the summer, and vegatables with tofu in the winter pretty easy to prepare. I am very attracted to East Indian foods! One more reason for at least reducing the meat I consume, is it takes too much land and energy for meat. Our heavy meat diet is not possible around the world, so for moral reasons, I favor foods that can sustain the world. Another moral concern is it might not be a good thing having an industry that requires humans to kill.

Moderation is the key + excersize to a healthy diet. There's nothing wrong with eating a bacon sandwich, or drinking soda pop, or eating a juicy steak. It's how much of that substance your body can handle and how fast your metabolism is willing to work to keep you healthy. Some people's metabolisms are naturally slower than others, but excersize can help a great deal, not to mention it's great for one's heart. Plus, excersize makes me feel better than sitting on the couch and watching TV. And I love TV. I've got a 62" TV. Maybe because when I run or jog, it's an occasional thing. I love to get the occasional breath of frewsh air. But anyways, the only viable argument for meat being bad is a moral one. An ethical one. We have to decide at what point it's okay to kill an animal for our well being, or just for food in general. The only thing that seperates animals and plants is their proven ability to suffer/feel pain. And once it has been proven that plants CAN feel, even they can't yelp or scream like animals, they are still alive, so the morality issue will become hypocriticism if the argument stays the same. I view plants and animals as life forms on this planet, and that we have evolved over time, and some other species just didn't cut it because they lacked the brains or physical matter to adapt/manipulate their environment.

I'm also not saying plants are bad, in fact, they play a vital part in our survival, but so does meat. I love a cold crisp juicy salad topped with ranch dressing, but I also love my steak which usually comes after the salad.

[brien]

Quote by: Athena Not if you were getting too big for your clothes, and seriously didn't want to buy a size larger. Most my life I ate anything I wanted and never gained much. Now my body is making 3 pounds of fat out of every calorie consumed, so I am not eating a lot of things I would love to eat. Also I have a limited income and rather not spend money on meat. I don't have to cook for others, so I am getting lazy, and find salads in the summer, and vegatables with tofu in the winter pretty easy to prepare. I am very attracted to East Indian foods! One more reason for at least reducing the meat I consume, is it takes too much land and energy for meat. Our heavy meat diet is not possible around the world, so for moral reasons, I favor foods that can sustain the world. Another moral concern is it might not be a good thing having an industry that requires humans to kill.

A very sensible approach to eating as we age. I agree, but I never insist that another person should follw a specific diet because everyone is different and what works for me may not work for someone else.

[namguy69]

Quote by: kubedawg Moderation is the key + excersize to a healthy diet. There's nothing wrong with eating a bacon sandwich, or drinking soda pop, or eating a juicy steak. It's how much of that substance your body can handle and how fast your metabolism is willing to work to keep you healthy. Some people's metabolisms are naturally slower than others, but excersize can help a great deal, not to mention it's great for one's heart. Plus, excersize makes me feel better than sitting on the couch and watching TV. And I love TV. I've got a 62" TV. Maybe because when I run or jog, it's an occasional thing. I love to get the occasional breath of frewsh air. But anyways, the only viable argument for meat being bad is a moral one. An ethical one. We have to decide at what point it's okay to kill an animal for our well being, or just for food in general. The only thing that seperates animals and plants is their proven ability to suffer/feel pain. And once it has been proven that plants CAN feel, even they can't yelp or scream like animals, they are still alive, so the morality issue will become hypocriticism if the argument stays the same. I view plants and animals as life forms on this planet, and that we have evolved over time, and some other species just didn't cut it because they lacked the brains or physical matter to adapt/manipulate their environment. I'm also not saying plants are bad, in fact, they play a vital part in our survival, but so does meat. I love a cold crisp juicy salad topped with ranch dressing, but I also love my steak which usually comes after the salad.

Ok, and yes I've heard that plants can feel pain, I've no reason to believe it or not to believe it. As for humans being evolved from some other animals, I don't care to see it that way, but that's my opinion.

[Nurf]

Quote by: Athena Not if you were getting too big for your clothes, and seriously didn't want to buy a size larger. Most my life I ate anything I wanted and never gained much. Now my body is making 3 pounds of fat out of every calorie consumed, so I am not eating a lot of things I would love to eat. Also I have a limited income and rather not spend money on meat. I don't have to cook for others, so I am getting lazy, and find salads in the summer, and vegatables with tofu in the winter pretty easy to prepare. I am very attracted to East Indian foods! One more reason for at least reducing the meat I consume, is it takes too much land and energy for meat. Our heavy meat diet is not possible around the world, so for moral reasons, I favor foods that can sustain the world. Another moral concern is it might not be a good thing having an industry that requires humans to kill.

Here's a tip on not having to be a vegetarian for health reasons if you don't want to: exercise.

[namguy69]

Quote by: Nurf Here's a tip on not having to be a vegetarian for health reasons if you don't want to: exercise.

I eat lots of salads, everyday I have at least one, sometimes more. I also eat my share of meat. Exercise, I use to jog 6.5 miles everyday, I mean seven days a week. I did that for five years, plus I lifted weights and rode bicycle! Oh yes I did it all. Did it do much good, I can't see where it did, maybe it just wasn't for me, I don't know.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I know vegetarians who are health nuts who look like hell compared to me.

[namguy69]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I know vegetarians who are health nuts who look like hell compared to me.

For sure, I agree.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I know vegetarians who are health nuts who look like hell compared to me.

I know flesh eaters who are health nuts and who look like hell compared to me. Oh well. So much for that point.

Though, Carl Lewis, a source we can all confirm, a vegan, sure looks healthy, not only now, but during his competitive days as well.