Vegetarianism

[kubedawg]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Show me a reputable history site stating somewhere in the U.S. blacks were not free from ownership after the Civil War. You look rediculous defending this point. Unbelievable that you can`t concede such a blunder. Well not really. It blows up a good deal of your argument, so you have to keep bailing to keep it from sinking.

After the civil war, the current president let all the soldiers in the confederacy keep their black slaves, even after the Emancipation Proclamation was written... want proof?

Featured Document: The Emancipation Proclamation

1st result in google btw...

[kubedawg]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin OFE, do you think animals want or need the right to vote when that is physically impossible for them to do?

So you admit that humans are better than animals in the possibility that we can vote? We have the possibility to do a lot more than any other animal on this planet combined. It's an impossibility because animals aren't intelligent enough to do so. Therefore, they are lower than humans, and as such, cannot have rights.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin AR has never been about getting the sum total of Civil Rights you are trying to side step the argument into. All they need is the right to not be owned and the protection of integrity of body, which is what was won for blacks by a third party with the Civil War.

There you go again calling black people stupid animals.....

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin You have no understanding what the push for Animal Rights is, and you look silly thinking animals want the exact same rights as humans as in Civil Rights and then trying to parallel the argument to Rosa Parks etc... You need to go back a hundred years before that to the right parallel and goal that is being sought.

Equal consideration of interests, that has been said many many times by you. I think you've got your point across when speaking of the push for animal rights... But the fact is, there should NOT be an equal consideration of interests, because animals are lower than humans.

[kubedawg]

Oh and banning the killing of animals will not work. Look at how people reacted once alcohol was banned. And that was only torwards people above a certain age. All ages can eat meat, and thus, it would be impossible for the government to enforce a law which says we as humans cannot kill an animal. It is an impossibility because there are more humans who eat meat than there are vegetarians, at least in the USA. How do I know this statistic? Look around. Every restaurant, fast food place, grocery store has meat. I've never seen a vegetarian food store, or if I have, it's a 1 in a million ratio compared to stores that have meat.

Stores that would stop selling meat would cease to exist. There is too much money to be made by killing animals for food. This movement will never get farther than peaceful protest.

[brien]

Quote by: jamesbdunn The vast numbers of the people and media control the government. If the entire family and friends of a Congressional Representative feels strongly about an issue, the rep is going to feel some serious heat. That is why the Government takes such great effort in controlling the media. People in positions of power still value the opinions of friends, family, and business associates. Voting doesn't do as much as we want. Democrat, Republican, it's two sides to the same coin. Democrats start social programs and raise taxes. Republicans start business programs and cut tax benefits. You need to vote, but we need to consistently put pressure upon the peers of our representitives.

The vast numbers of the people and media control the government.

I am tempted to put this in the most ridiculous statements thread. The media controls the government???? If this were true we wouldn't have GWB for a president and we wouldn't be embroiled in Iraq.

The vast numbers of people control the government??? You ae confusing voting with power in government. If you think that 535 representatives vote your will because you will it, you should perhaps think again. Reps are beholding to the people who supply the money that placed them in the Congress. The power structure of the Congress is such that those with the longest record of service, have the most power and demand subservience from the newly elected members. If you don't play ball, you are relegated to the corners of the Congress and assigned to committees with the least important power, if you are assigned at all.

You can put all the pressure you think the rep would feel but in reality, unless you are a major campaign donor, you opinion won't mean squat.
How long have you studied politics?

[brien]

Quote by: kubedawg We may still procreate like animals, and eat like animals, but what other animal species kills it's own species, what other animal has the same or better intelligence than humans. We are far from being animals...

Kube; A point of information. Don't know in whose gun this bullet belongs

but what other animal species kills it's own species

Chimps kill each other.

San Diego Zoo's Animal Bytes: Bonobo (Pygmy Chimp)

Getting Along— When trouble comes between common chimps, they often fight it out. They are also very protective of their territory and will kill chimps from another group, called a troop, if they try to move in. Bonobos don’t seem to have established territories, and they tend to handle any squabbles or tension by using different sexual behaviors instead of aggression

The Predatory Behavior and Ecology of Wild Chimpanzees

When Jane Goodall first observed wild chimpanzees hunting and eating meat nearly 40 years ago, skeptics suggested that their behavior was aberrant and that the amount of meat eaten was trivial. Today, we know that chimpanzees everywhere eat mainly fruit, but are also predators in their forest ecosystems. In some sites the quantity of meat eaten by a chimpanzee community may approach one ton annually. Recently revealed aspects of predation by chimpanzees, such as its frequency and the use of meat as a political and reproductive tool, have important implications for research on the origins of human behavior. These findings come at a time when many anthropologists argue for scavenging rather than hunting as a way of life for early human ancestors. Research into the hunting ecology of wild chimpanzees may therefore shed new light on the current debate about the origins of human behavior

I have also read that chimps eat monkeys.


Also falcons and hawks regularly dine on smaller birds.

[kubedawg]

I meant in the magnitude and ways that people do.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Well, that would get down to intelligence, chimps aren't able to kill each other in the way humans are. In the wild they do have "wars" over territory, with each group making and remembering enemies.

[Kuldeep]

Without reading 42 pages here is my input about benefits of being vegetarian for human beings in general. From last few posts I could see it is recommened when some animals and birds feed themselves on other's meat why not human would do!!!

Not oing into longer detail I would say innumerable species exist in nature. All have a common factor of hunger. The hunger is caused due to biologic/chemical/physical metabolism and other reasons. This thirst of hunger is quinched with various avaiable food stuffs suiting to the particular anatomy of a living being. It has been experienced that all most all living creatures feed themselves to subside their hunger with weaker living being than themselves. It may be noted here that even plants are also living beings for that matter.

Now every specific creature over the period of time due to evolution science correct me, has set their menu of diet suiting their anatomy, digestive system in particular. Human beings having higher state of intelligence, tried almost everything it could lay hands on with addition of cooking etc. Not basically of honest to his own nature of liking and dis-liking nature started eating even such stuff which did not suit its digestive and other body systems. Naturally developed lot of complications.

Basically my point of advocating vegetables for human instead of animal meat is that:

Human does not lick fluids like most of meat eating animals do and do not have long and sharp teeth or beak for tearing the meat apart like meat eating animals and birds have. I am not a very good Zoologist to tell you about internal digestive differences between Herbivorous and meat eating animals but do think there must be definitely some major difference. From this, I consider human being a herbivorous specie only and not a meat eating one. It must be due to taste development with addition of cooking, roasting and salt & spices enjoyed meat as well. Tell me how many of civilised human beings would kill animals like other meat eating animals do and enjoy their raw meat and then enjoy sucking their blood like a tiger. I am sure not many would raise their hands as volunteers.

Friends, therefore please please agree with me human is not a meat eating animal!!!!

That is why, I was thrilled to read SHW's signature space Quote from greatest thinker of his time Albert Einestein who said and I again quote here as:

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein

Respecting A. E (greatest of greatest thinker), I appeal to all and understand him at least if not me that human being anatomical iet is vegetables and meat to have good health.

[pikatore]

A herbivorous species will and cannot digest meat properly, and get sick from a prolonged meat diet, because they do not have the anatomy to process the meat well.

Herbivorous animals usually have a caecum (which we used to have - our appendix), an enlarged part of the early large intestine, that serves to ferment and process vegatable material further to withdraw more nutrients from it, nutrients that we don't and cannot draw.

WE ARE OMNIVOROUS. Argue vegatarianism with the t-bone steak in my fridge.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Bring it on SHW, I will destroy the logic used to build your movement one step, one point at a time.

You haven`t even begun to do so as of yet, except for your prejudicial reasoning, rationalizations, and speciesist arguments supported by the same reasoning as racist and sexist arguments, so why should I expect you to now? Or why do you even think you are capable of doing so after all these posts and after the trend in society shows the traditional arguments giving way to those arguing for AR?

Why aren`t your dusty old arguments of "might makes right" dragged out to be shaken holding back and stemming the tide of more and more protections and limitations for animal exploitation?

You are way behind the power curve of the trends. Get busy!

You wouldn`t even be able to smoke in a public facility housing stray dogs due to the anti-smoking laws now limiting your actions. LOL! Even dogs now have a safe haven from your carcinogenic habit!

Funny watching you get further and further pushed back into a corner and marginalized on the fringes of society.

[Osborn F Enready]

Kuldeep said: Friends, therefore please please agree with me human is not a meat eating animal!!!!

No. I can prove that statement wrong. I am a human, and I eat meat because it gives me the best reward of nutrition for dollars spent, for nutrition gained, that suits my needs and prefrences.

I am a meat eater, who supplements my diet with fruits and vegetables.

SHW said: Funny watching you get further and further pushed back into a corner and marginalized on the fringes of society.

Continue to laugh, all the way until revolution, and you will see why it wasn't really so funny to begin with.

You have not shown one iota of logic or reasoning in your arguments, other than statistics compiled in biased, and non-all inclusive form. Intellectually dishonest, in my opinion.

The main contention for your arguments is that animals feel pain..... NO Kidding?!? (who didn't know this?)

You alledge people can live "the same" on vegetarian diets, as meat diets, which is PROVABLY false, since you don't know a damn thing about how all people live. What about strength atheletes? What about athletes in general?


Your entire argument is built like a house of cards.

Point by point, one point per post.... lets go.... bring it.

[Gods_Mercenary]

His argument was that because we don't resemble other predators, we aren't? We are omnivores, designed for maximum versatility. and the reason we do not look like other predators is that we are primates, I thought that was obvious. We evolved to scavenge meat at first, and then, eventually, to hunt it ourselves.

And as to that annoying Einstien quote, he should have stuck to physics.

[kubedawg]

I'm craving a steak right now... omfg.. so.. juicy.. tender... slicing through that meat, sniffing those addictive fumes.. My pupils widen when I see a hot juicy steak. And noone will take that away from me. I garuntee, if the government outlawed meat eating, or the killing of animals, there would be a revolution that would be bigger than the combination of WW1 and WW2. I know I'd fight against the outlaw of meat eating. Screw it. I'd start hunting for my own meat, lets go back a couple hundred years where everyone still had to hunt for their own food.... Yeah that sounds spectacular......

Besides, there is too much money in meat. And by killing the meat markets, you kill the potential lives of future animals.

Like in a song that I keep hearing lately:

"I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all."

How can YOU, SHW, of all people, speak for these animals, to know their wants and needs? How do you know an animal would rather never be born than to live a life of misery?

[Gods_Mercenary]

I love steak! a good one at a steak house is the absolute best, I think i'd start my own revolution if they outlawed it, kube and osborn could help me, too.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary We evolved to scavenge meat at first, and then, eventually, to hunt it ourselves.

Strange word choice.

Vultures evolved to scavenge meat. They have an almost bald head so that blood does not get matted into feathers. They have a keen sense of smell that allows them to find carion. The have wings that allows them to hover for long periods searching for carion or waiting for an animal to expire.

As for us and your construct above, it would be more accurate, if not honest, as:

We learned to scavenge meat at first, and then, eventually, to hunt it ourselves.

And as to that annoying Einstien quote, he should have stuck to physics.

LOL! I am glad you have been noticing it and it has been rattling you. Truth does have a way at annoying, doesn`t it?

Here, take a look at those who agree with me on that:

Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Mark Twain

Mr. Twain has some incite into why Einstein`s quote has been annoying you.

The road to truth is long, and lined the entire way with annoying bastards. --Alexander Jablokov

What an annoying bastard, that Mr. Einstein!!! Glad he is.

Ha!

btw, Mr. Einstein, in addition to a great physicist, was also a great humanitarian, and his views on many issues were well respected and held in high regard. Too bad for you, I geuss.

[Osborn F Enready]

Since you like quotes SHW, heres a couple for you....

“It is my right to be uncommon...if I can; I seek opportunity...not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stole calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud, and unafraid; to think and act for myself; enjoy the benefits of my creations and to face the world boldly and say, This I have done, and this is what it means to be an American.”
-Dean Alfrange

“Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it.”
-Thomas Paine, Rights of Man ("Conclusion")

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
-Daniel Webster

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
-Ben Franklin

“Experience teaches us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent.”
-Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, in a 1928 decision

“To say that any people are not fit for freedom, is to make poverty their choice, and to say they had rather be loaded with taxes than not.”
-Thomas Paine, 1792

History clearly shows what your movement is all about, and not just in snappy quotes by great men, but by actions of the people who operate the world. You are trying to remove an essential liberty from people, to benefit yourselves, on the backs of animals who you claim to be lifting up.

[Osborn F Enready]

SHW said: Mr. Einstein, in addition to a great physicist, was also a great humanitarian, and his views on many issues were well respected and held in high regard.

Humanitarian..... is that how YOU spell socialist?

[StrongHeartsWin]

Cute -- all those quotes. They don`t annoy me in the least like mine does to Gods_Mercenary. I especially like the one of Thoma Pain`s.

"Reason" is an important thing that should guide our actions. So, why hasn`t "reason" pushed you into a cave yet to wage your war against the state? Perhaps you haven`t gone yet because you realize to do so is really unreasonable.

So, why do you keep supporting the Matrix if you are raging against it? After all, it could be soon that you would not have the choice to eat foi gra, and as it is now, you may have a hard time just smoking a cancer stick at a place you surely could before in the past. I see a lot of words from you, but your presence here tells me you aren`t a man of action out in the field waging your battle.

A lot of things could have been accomplished now by you had you used your time fighting the government with your stockpiled arms and ammo rather than being a top poster here nearing 10,000 posts. Lots of wasted time! Perhaps that is why you are behind the trend and losing.

[Osborn F Enready]

LOL, perhaps.... perhaps....

I prefer just letting the people be awakened by the results of their ignorance, and the result of it collectively.

You are doing a fine job of helping, continue on brave soldier.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready You are doing a fine job of helping, continue on brave soldier.

"Soldier?" Me? You are the one with your stockpiled arms and ammos comically waiting to launch your revolution.

Why haven`t you begun yet and why are you paying taxes to support the system you are railing against? Funny how you avoided all those questions above --- and quite telling, brave little 'soldier.'