Vegetarianism

[zippster18]

Ok, I'm vegan (a strickter version of vegetarianism -- no dairy), been that way for 2 - going on 3 years. I physically can't eat meat. It makes me gag if i do. It's not a psychological thing either. I can tell when something is faux meat and when it's the real deal. And trust me, I miss McDonald's Double Cheeseburgers and McChickens. But OMG do i miss Ribs and Steaks! (Thank God for Faux stuff)

It's not just about the slaughtered animals and the killing of God's creatures. (and no i'm not a Peta girl, but I just try to stay away from stuff that's made from animals)

Oh and to those of you who aren't sure if i'm healthy. I'm quite healthy and i get all my vitamins and proteins just like a good girl. It's all readily available in the veggies, fruit, tofu, and soy that I eat.

If you have any questions... now's the time!

[Epistemologist]

Quote by: zippster18 Ok, I'm vegan (a strickter version of vegetarianism -- no dairy), been that way for 2 - going on 3 years. I physically can't eat meat. It makes me gag if i do. It's not a psychological thing either. I can tell when something is faux meat and when it's the real deal. And trust me, I miss McDonald's Double Cheeseburgers and McChickens. But OMG do i miss Ribs and Steaks! (Thank God for Faux stuff)

Yeah, if you stop eating meat for a long time or haven't ever eaten it e.g. never eaten chicken, you'll get sick when you do it. Meats could be considered impure, and there really is so much potential for impurities in them e.g. tapeworm in cow meat.

Like I said, I don't care much about animals, but I consider excessive meat eating as rather unhealthy or at least a bad practice. Then again, I eat meat, particularly chicken, although I try to minimize my intake.

[zippster18]

Too much of anything is a bad thing. As a Band Director of mine has said "Moderation is the Key"

[Epistemologist]

Quote by: zippster18 Too much of anything is a bad thing. As a Band Director of mine has said "Moderation is the Key"

Yep, even too much moderation might be a bad thing.

[zippster18]

Maybe... who knows!

[pahl]

Quote by: brien People who are vegans would probably force meat eaters to be vegans but those whom are carnivores would never force vegans to eat meat. It is a matter of tolerance and choice, both which would be denied by vegans with respect to carinvores. Vegans seem to have no tolerance for carnivores and if they could, would deny choice to carnivores as well. Carnivores offer choice and tolerance, therefore, I side with both choice and tolerance, and thus carnivores.

Dont make stupid generalisations. Vegans are from my expirience no more prone to force their beliefs on other people then christians are. And i dont think bad of christianity because of the few people knocking on my door to "advertise" their beliefs.

If you dont like the vegan protestors you see on television then just say so. Dont try to use it to call the opposing side "intolerant and oppressing". I've met a lot of meat eaters that would probly deny vegans their choice because they find it "silly".

Its the person that is intolerant, not their diet.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Your right, we christians don't like the generalisations anymore than you do, please alert me if I am making them.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Impenitent the cannibals think that vegetarians taste best...

Cannibalism has been commonplace throughout the history of man. In Africa and in other out of the way Islands in the South Pacific cannibalism is considered as the norm.

People, come to find out, taste pretty good. We are closer to pork, it's said, than to any other meat. I read about an African cop, who when he came back into the police station after a raid on poachers, was seen to have two severed hands tucked into his belt. The white chief of police asked the black cop what he had the hands for. "They're the best part", was the man's reply. Apparently, hands, properly prepared must taste something like chicken wings.

When questioned further, the cop said that while he prefered hands, "the buttocks of a young girl was good too". Sorta like veal, I guess.

Might make one to consider vegetarianism, eh.:eek:

[Gods_Mercenary]

Well yah, given the choice between human meat and a carrot, i'd choose the carrot.
Although I don't think it's quite as prevalent as you say.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin I`ve already given you a list of a few objective observations that the argument is built on. Go back and take a look.

What you drew from those conclusions is subjective.


Look, I am not attacking vegetarianism, nor am I trying to discourage any movement. I am just saying that whether or not an individual eats meat should be dependent on their own subjective value of animals.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin lol. Easy to declare. btw, your statement, too, is "ignorantly subjective." Ha!

Right, so neither of us has any right to legislate our beliefs. You don't force vegetarianism on me, and I won't come at you with a steak and some A1.

What I have noticed is your reliance on the "subjective" thing in other threads you post in. You seem to think everything is subjective. I think it was in this thread and perhaps it was Pahl who pointed out to you that to you reality does not exist for everything depends on the subjective view of another.

No, there are plenty of debateable subjects that are objective. In debates, there are a few assumed morals, such as property rights (for people), and the general welfare of mankind. The only way subjectivity can be debateable is when someone contradicts their own opinion.

My argument is this:

Since governments are in place to protect the people, and since your value of animals is subjective, the government has neither the responsibility nor the constitutional ability to legislate the abolition of meat eating.

Fine. Being the first time does not make it wrong. We ARists are in great company with other respected persons throughout history who have felt it wrong to exploit animals.

Good for you. Just stop trying to objectify this "there's patterns in history, man!" crap to mean "meat eating is murder!"

That is the point of The Equal Consideration of Interests when suffering and violation of integrity of body and freedom is in question.

Provide me some links that prove, objectively that our government's responsibility is to enforce "equal consideration of rights."

[zippster18]

Quote by: brien SH: People who are vegans would probably force meat eaters to be vegans but those whom are carnivores would never force vegans to eat meat. It is a matter of tolerance and choice, both which would be denied by vegans with respect to carinvores. Vegans seem to have no tolerance for carnivores and if they could, would deny choice to carnivores as well. Carnivores offer choice and tolerance, therefore, I side with both choice and tolerance, and thus carnivores. Compare us to anyone you wish, but you can't deny the truth that vegans stand for intolerance and are anti choice.

I'm glad you can speculate what vegans "would" do, but I can tell you from first hand experience...That's just not so. I myself am vegan...for many reasons, but I do NOT force my views and opinions on anyone. If they ask, I tell them the truth. To deny someone or become intolerant to their ways of thinking or actions is the personality not because of what they eat.

and in response to
Quote by: Impenitent View Post
the cannibals think that vegetarians taste best...

We do taste better. Not in the eating of flesh portion of your program, but in more of a sensual aspect.

[pikatore]

Ok I am going to attack the idea of vegatarianism on the following grounds:

a) We are biologically predisposed to eat both plants and animals. We are omnivorous. If we restrict our diet to vegatables, we should at least be taking supplements (protein, calcium etc) that contain stuff that is not abundant in vegetables.

We need an omnivorous lifestyle to properly satisfy our biological needs. To just kick out such an important part of the food pyramid is in my opinion not the smartest of ideas unless you are doing something to supplement the nutrients you would be missing out on. If you don't like eating meat because of texture and taste, then theres so much that can be done. But just try to create an argument with moral/intellectual substance that doesnt boil down to 'i just dont like eating meat'.

b) Animal cruelty and farming are two completely different things. I believe that some vegatarians confuse the two.

[zippster18]

Quote by: pikatore Ok I am going to attack the idea of vegatarianism on the following grounds: a) We are biologically predisposed to eat both plants and animals. We are omnivorous. If we restrict our diet to vegatables, we should at least be taking supplements (protein, calcium etc) that contain stuff that is not abundant in vegetables. We need an omnivorous lifestyle to properly satisfy our biological needs. To just kick out such an important part of the food pyramid is in my opinion not the smartest of ideas unless you are doing something to supplement the nutrients you would be missing out on. If you don't like eating meat because of texture and taste, then theres so much that can be done. But just try to create an argument with moral/intellectual substance that doesnt boil down to 'i just dont like eating meat'.

I will disagree with you here. As humans we are not supposed to eat meat. For various reasons.

1- our intestins are not long and straight like a cat's they are all windy. Which means that the meat and such stays in out system for days.

2- If we were true omnivores... you wouldn't need to cook the flesh

3- Your teeth would be more razor sharp (inorder to tear through the hyde and get to the meat)

Phisiologically speaking our bodies are not designed to be meat eaters.

And as far as nutrients...you can get just as much calcium and vitamins as you need without "supliments" and without meat. Your fruits and veggies really do have a lot of nutrients packed into them.

True story - when i was not vegan. I was anemic (aka low iron) couldn't ever give blood. Once I became vegan, I have no problems giving. My iron is now normal.

Quote by: pikatore b) Animal cruelty and farming are two completely different things. I believe that some vegatarians confuse the two.

I'll agree with you on that, but there's still the farmers who do animal cruelty and don't realize it. And if you're going to talk about animal cruelty, don't forget about Health and Beauty aids that are tested on animalsn and made with animal products, unless it states otherwise.

[Osborn F Enready]

Screw nutrients, those are easy to get!

What about protein?????

Cow Milk, and all of its derivatives, mainly whey, is the best source of biodegradeable protein to put in your system.

Meat, is the easiest available source of protein without milk, if not fish.

Meat eating, may very well be one of the reasons humans evolved as we did, by getting previously un-attainable amino acids, and fatty acids.

I'll stay a meat eater, thanks.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: jamesbdunn Cows consume 100 times their weight in vegetation to produce 1/2 their weight in edible meat. The food wasted on raising cattle could better be refined to feed people. Cows and other farm animals produce a vast amount of methane every year which has a significant effect upon global warming. The methane holds the heat in.

Good point, James.

Thanks for touching on the harm meat production does to the environment. I haven`t even begun to touch on that yet.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: brien Analogies don't bother me.

Then don`t get indignant with the analogies if they don`t bother you.

Intolerance and anti choice does bother me. It is anti individualism that bothers me.

You made a large generalization about a group of people. Generalizations are the source of prejudice.

[zippster18]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Screw nutrients, those are easy to get! What about protein????? Cow Milk, and all of its derivatives, mainly whey, is the best source of biodegradeable protein to put in your system. Meat, is the easiest available source of protein without milk, if not fish. Meat eating, may very well be one of the reasons humans evolved as we did, by getting previously un-attainable amino acids, and fatty acids. I'll stay a meat eater, thanks.

Vegetarians drink cow milk, vegans don't...we drink soy (which has just as much protein without all the anti-biotics.

And what about legumes for protein, readily available, don't have to kill anything for it (less work) you would think the lazy society we live in today would go for that.

If by evolving you mean more violent and angry in nature, sure. And those amino-acids are quite easy to get without meat and fish...trust me.

[Osborn F Enready]

James & SHW said: Cows consume 100 times their weight in vegetation to produce 1/2 their weight in edible meat. The food wasted on raising cattle could better be refined to feed people.

Well, that doesn't take into account the volume of milk produced by cows, which is a large portion of our dietary protein in this country.

Milk, Yogurt, Cottage Cheese, Whey Protein, Curds, Cheese, etc.

[Osborn F Enready]

Soy protein has negative affects in males.

Soy protein is GREAT for women, not good for men.

Soy protein is better than NOTHING, but not even CLOSE to whey protein, and not nearly as digestable in the human system.