Jackie Chan: Chinese people need to be controlled

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: Praxius I think you should turn around and actually take a good look at what you think is the greatest way of life for all to follow. The US has the lowest life expectancy then all other developed nations and getting worse

Where do you you come up with this stuff? Life expectancy is 78.11 yrs in the US and 78.66 in Europe. And it has done nothing other than go up. And China is 73.47

[captain887]

If you look at it Tinybear, not to sound offensive; but I doubt you have been to China. I myself have been there.

China more liberal or USA more liberal? It's hard to tell, I mean in USA I believe you are guranteed the right of freedom of speech, correct?
However what about Miss. California when she supported gay rights? She got embarrassed, lost her crown, and is being the target of so many threats. But ask yourself this, what did she do? She answered the question truthfully. So although she spoke freely, she is constantly being harassed (which would not happen in China).

BTW USA, is a hypocrite. They criticize China for so many things. But what about USA? Think of all the arguments of why you would hate China and think if USA had ever had similar experiences.

(Sorry if I may offend you)
Captain

[tinybear]

Not at all. I'm not offended in the least.

Some points in reply.

-First, I have been to China. Indeed I am in China right now where I have resided for the past few years. In fact before I came to live in the USA in 1992, I was in Asia and was born in Hong Kong. And, of course, if you don't already know, I am ethnic Chinese.

-As for Miss California, she did not lose the Miss USA title because all of the judges penalized her for the answer she gave. She lost it because one gay judge deliberately gave her an absurdly low mark (zero, in fact). That is hardly an illustration that America deplores freedom of speech. If you wish to see examples of extreme and blatant suppression of the freedom of speech, please look elsewhere (China for example).

-Yes, USA exercises double standards from time to time, but I stand by my statement that she is still miles miles more liberal than China.

[Cruella]

How about we stick to the topic, please?

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[tinybear]

Actually, we're not far off topic. The point is made that because I'm not familiar with the Chinese I tend to think the American way is best and do not understand that what Jackie Chan said might be true, i.e. that in a Chinese society, it's best that its citizens are controlled; otherwise chaos may ensue. I seek to rebut that by saying that, with my background and my experience in living with and talking to many Chinese, I think that Jackie doesn't speak for the majority of Chinese. The majority do not think that authoritarian rule should continue or that it is necessary for the prosperity or continued order of the country.

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear Actually, we're not far off topic. The point is made that because I'm not familiar with the Chinese I tend to think the American way is best and do not understand that what Jackie Chan said might be true, i.e. that in a Chinese society, it's best that its citizens are controlled; otherwise chaos may ensue.

Some Chinese citizens may agree with that option. But I'm sure many would find an option #2 and #3 (and so on) interesting also. I'm generalizing, but what we usually see in "controlled" populations is this: The controllers' hold on the population gets tighter, and tighter, and tighter until it breaks. Then, given the ample opportunity, the ruling thugs descend like vultures on the chaos and use it as an excuse to regain and retain their previous control. That's the best that government "chaos prevention" can do. In other words, it can do almost nothing to prevent disorder, and actually tends to add significantly to it.

Grandpa h.

[Praxius]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Where do you you come up with this stuff? Life expectancy is 78.11 yrs in the US and 78.66 in Europe. And it has done nothing other than go up. And China is 73.47

Where do I come up with this stuff?

If you opened your eyes, you'd see my source link in the same post you quoted..... that is where I "came up with this stuff"

Where did you come up with your stuff?

[captain887]

I agree with tiny bear that China should move more towards a democractic society. But the thing about democracy is that, USA democractic country remains at very high levels of violence. I was talking with an adult and they said they like a more controolled envrioment such as china. (Btw, not saying that the whole usa is not controlled, just referring to the gang wars and drug wars). Also, democracy plays a lot in power politics, generally. Especailly in China.

Captain

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: Praxius Where do I come up with this stuff? If you opened your eyes, you'd see my source link in the same post you quoted..... that is where I "came up with this stuff" Where did you come up with your stuff?

Aaaaand nothing there supports either of your assertions that "The US has the lowest life expectancy then all other developed nations" or that it is "getting worse".

[grandpa]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Aaaaand nothing there supports either of your assertions that "The US has the lowest life expectancy then all other developed nations" or that it is "getting worse".

In any case, American life is far from perfect.

Grandpa h.

[tinybear]

Quote by: grandpa In any case, American life is far from perfect. Grandpa h.

No life can be perfect. But be grateful for you have. Be grateful you don't live in Ethiopia for instance.

[Stevejavson]

As a person who was born in and lived in China for a good deal of my life; I agree with Chan.

The government is already loosening it's grip, but it needs to be taken slowly. I'm not saying the people don't deserve freedom, I'm saying it needs to be done slowly because with well over a billion people, stability is essential.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: MyApologies Not only is this thread extremely racist, where users are posturing that the Chinese are genetically disposed to slavery, but its also extremely ignorant.

Hmm, looks like you’ve been killed off. Well, anyway, if you are still following the thread, what may also be said to be {extremely} ignorant is this: People are ignoring the fact that all humans are genetically disposed to slavery. It’s in the genes.

Quote by: MyApologies It assumes people want that style government, this is NOT true.

This is quite an interesting comment. With over a billion people in China {quietly} going about their business and we are to be under the assumption that the Chinese people do not want their style of government?

Secondly, it may be seen as a sign of arrogance that one should assume that his way of governance is the only way that people want. Are we to assume that everyone wants your style of government. Why should that be the {common} assumption?

Quote by: MyApologies No one likes being a slave.

You would be surprised. Well, for the fact of the matter and for the most part, it appears that this would depend on what type of slave you are.

I. So you want to be a slave: the Realities

II. Perspective: Nothing like being a tech slave

III. Stop Being a Slave to Starbucks - How to Quit Caffeine

IV. I Am A SLAVE To My Blackberry

Quote by: MyApologies In America, we don't like the bail-outs or the war in Iraq or all the sodomization of prisoners--- do you think Chinese people assume we actually want those things on a genetic level?

Yes they should.

Secondly, you should rephrase that to say: In America, I don't like the bail-outs or the war in Iraq or all the sodomization of prisoners--- do you think Chinese people assume I actually want those things on a genetic level?

Don’t forget that you are not the only one in America. The fact that you do not desire or want something, does not mean that the next American does not desire or want it. There are Americans who like the bailouts, wars, and sodomizations.

Quote by: MyApologies They are enslaved in a control grid, the US should stop trading with them.

And you must be under the impression that you are not one who is enslaved in a control grid? So if that is your standard for not trading with the Chinese people then maybe they should apply your standard and not trade with you?

Quote by: MyApologies Wait, are you saying Canadians from China were siding with the Chinese government on beating, torturing, and enslaving the Tibetan people during the olympics?

Does that surprise you? Why not?

Quote by: MyApologies Well, we have people here cheering for our corruption as well, people arguing FOR torture for example.

Well then what is your problem with China?

Secondly, it’s not only people in America.

Quote by: MyApologies Perhaps you're right, at this point, maybe becoming a slave has become tolerable to the point where they wouldn't want it another way. Sort of the governmental version of Stockholm Syndrome.

Becoming a slave? When were you or they not ever a slave?

Quote by: MyApologies I would not advocate any government forcing China to change, I think we both agree on that. However, encouraging people to stop their government from SUPPORTING China with our money and resources and encouraging individuals to stop supporting China may make it more expensive and difficult to maintain their slave population.

You are not advocating that governments should force China to change? Question: What do you think you are doing when you encourage people to stop supporting China with their money and resources?

Secondly, seeing as the Chinese people are the holders of what is said to be a {large} quantity of America’s debt, maybe they should take your proposal into consideration? Maybe they should make it more {expensive} and difficult for you to maintain your slave population?

They could start by not buying American cars and supporting the {ailing} car market?

I. In China, 'Buy American' Still Resonates

Quote by: MyApologies most nations never learn to be independent, the US is a rare instance, and even here we didn't manage to hang on to our freedom.

The US is independent? When did that happen?

I. How dependent are we on foreign oil?

II. US Agriculture Dependent on Migrant Workers

III. Big Risk: Surging Debt Makes U.S. More Dependent on China, Russia, Gulf States

Quote by: MyApologies I don't think the US should do anything proactive to stop the Chinese, but they explicitly support them. I mean, George Bush Sr. came up with the one child policy for China; we help enslave them,

And they help to enslave you.

Secondly, you sound as if there is no benefit to the one child policy? Would you rather have another billion people on this earth for you to complain about being under the {oppressive} foot of the Chinese government?

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: Morality Games Not every issue divides between Senesless Evil Slavers and Reasonable Good Freedom Lovers.

Seeing that the {Senseless Evil Slavers} are also seen as the {Reasonable Good Freedom Lovers} and visa versa, that sort of division would appear to be quite difficult.

Quote by: Morality Games The proliferation of children in Chinese families was putting life threatening strain on the whole society, with sickness and starvation abounding.

Who cares about that? Are you out of your mind Mr. Games? You can’t be serious? Why should we even care about that fact? The only thing that matters is that the one child policy of China is an {evil} policy that was implemented by an {evil} Chinese government. Who cares that the “proliferation of children in Chinese families was putting life threatening strain on the whole society.” Who cares that the proliferation of children was adding to the sickness and starvation? Who cares, that without the one child policy, there would probably be about another billion people for us to complain about being under the {oppressive} foot of the {evil} Chinese government? The only factor that we need to take into account is the belief that the Chinese government is an {evil} government that has never cared about its people. They are just an {evil} government that wants to prevent the Chinese people from enjoying the freedom of having a {strained} society that is comprised of an additional population of a billion or so sick and starving people.


By the way, there is a bright side, though: such an elimination of the one child policy would afford us the opportunity to sit back and complain about how {evil} the Chinese government is for not having a policy to limit sickness, starvation, and its population growth.

Quote by: Morality Games Normally big reductions in freedom are made to solve proportionally large problems. This is often to the benefit of freedom in the long run, since conserving freedom over all depends on reducing it in some branches of life for brief periods of time -- there can be no freedom without health and strength, and that requires social stability. Anyway, courtesy of Wikipedia: Could be true, might be back tracking. I'd have to know more about the context of the event.

Is it not possible that the freedom only appears {reduced?} Actually, could you not also argue that the freedom has shifted.

Secondly, why can there be no freedom without {health} and {strength?}

Quote by: tinybear I watched the entire footage on Youtube and on TV. The remarks were not taken out of context. Believe me.

And why do you believe that they were not taken out of context?

[tinybear]

Like I said, I viewed the entire footage and saw what the context was.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: Athena I hope further explanation will correct some misgivings. Cultural differences are not equal to genetic differences.

Why and how? Why and how are {cultural} differences not {genetic} differences?

Quote by: Athena Also cultures change over a period of time.

And it is said that genes change over a period of time:

I. Study: Rare Gene Change Linked To Autism

II. Gene Changes Linked to Most Common Form of Melanoma.

III. Gene Changes Linked To Deficient Immune Suppression In Multiple Sclerosis

IV. Nicotine-Linked Gene Change Raises Risk of Cancer

V. Obesity Associated With Clear Changes In Gene-networks And Dysfunction Of Mitochondria

And so, Ms. Athena, what exactly is the point? How and why does {cultural} change mean that {cultural} differences are not {genetic} differences.

Quote by: Athena The warring in Israel, Aghanistan and Pakistan, etc. is about resistance to change, same as the cultural change resulting from Europeans taking over the Americas, lead to cultural change and war.

And how and why does this mean that {cultural} differences are not {genetic} differences? How and why does a warring Israel, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, mean that
{cultural} differences are not {genetic} differences?

Quote by: Athena China has been experiencing major cultural change, with the lives of today's young, being greatly different from the past. Right now bridging from the past to the present is crucial to avoid violence, and a better understanding of the past cultural influences on China, will encouraging the bridging that avoids violence.

And how and why does China’s experience of what is said to be a {major} cultural change, mean that {cultural} differences are not {genetic} differences?

Quote by: Athena China was the world's technological leader. The Mongols brought technology from China to Europe, and especailly the technology for printing, lead to mass productions of books, including the bible, and the protestant reformation. But while Eupore absorbed China's technology and went into a period of growth, the philosophy of China lead to stopping change in China. Change got associated with danger, and China got obessed with the past.

Where would anyone ever get the idea to associate change with danger?

By the way, are you arguing that {change} is never a danger and therefore should never be associated with danger? Are you saying that one should never be wary of anything that purports to bring change?

Quote by: Athena This is so much fun to talk about, because the subject is full of surprises. Europe went through a fuedal period and came out of it differently from China. We have a lot to learn from the study of these cultural changes. Why did Europe come out of fuedalism differently than China? Does religion play a role in the difference?

And when or where has religion never played a role in {cultural} differences?

Quote by: Athena Does westward expansion play a role in the difference? Keep in mind, China is only one of the cultures that promotes authoritanian control of the masses, and people are fighting to defend their past ways. They are fighting western culture and capitalism, and what is to them moral break down. Countries are suffering civil war as some fight to preserve the past, and others fight to modernize. This fear and clinging to authoriatanianism is not just a Chinese problem.

But we would like to believe that it is just a Chinese a {problem.} That is to say, that those who see authoritarianism as a {problem} would like everyone to believe that it is just an issue that is only found in places in the East. While these try to bash Chinese authoritarianism and promote a “democracy” that is supposedly free from authoritarianism, they will purposefully ignore the authoritarianism that is present in that which they are attempting to promote.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: Athena I appreciate your explanation of China facing a major population problem requring drastic steps. I think we really need to learn more about China before judging it. The indepence of the US seems influenced by the independence of Celts and other European groups, who were basically living in what was a fronteer, separate from the ancient civilizations, of the ancient past, and finally, the expansion to the west.

Then how was it independence? If the independence of the US is influenced by the independence of the Celts, then how is that independence?

Quote by: Athena The US was blessed with land and bountiful resources, and no government to control all this, while at the same time, it benefited from technology, and developing markets in Europe, and the western classics from the civilizations of the Athens and Roman which were the bases for their education, encouraging scientific and independent thinking, which directs men away from despotism.

Well, actually, if one recalls, from what history has to say, America did have a government to control all of its {bountiful} resources. Did we forget that the Indians were here before the settlers arrived? Did we forget, that prior to the arrival of the settlers, the Indians were governing and controlling all of these {bountiful} resources?

Secondly, if you don’t mind, can you please explain how {scientific} and {independent} thinking directs men away from despotism?

Quote by: Athena The west directed them away from the filiality that was so strong in China. Our young went west and established their lives, complete independent of their parents.

Now that’s always a {good} thing.

Quote by: Athena Today's Chinese youths are moving to the city and the future, away from their parents. This means rapid change for China and an increased need to control what happens during this period of rapid change. I want to say- we should keep in mind the Christians and their belief in the last days, which hinders our own changing, our own concern about what is said in public, and accepting or rejecting things like evolution and brain cell research.

Quite a conclusion that you arrive at there, Ms. Athena. Now, questions: How does the Christian and his belief in the last day prevent your own changing? How does the rejection of evolution prevent you from changing? And when have Christians rejected brain cell research?

Quote by: tinybear But what about Jackie Chan? Do you think he should keep his mouth shut before he puts his foot in it again?

Keep his mouth shut when he has the freedom of speech? Keep his mouth shut about a fact that can be readily seen in every society? Ms. Tinybear, which society is absent of any control? Which society is absent of any regulations? Maybe he should keep his mouth shut if you can find us that society?

Secondly, why is an advocate of democracy and {free} speech so quick to suggest that Mr. Chan should shut his mouth? Why are the supporters of democracy and {free} speech so quick to stifle the speech of someone who says something that they do not agree with? Why should Mr. Chan not be free to voice a fact that is seen in every society? Again, maybe he should shut his mouth if and when you can present us all with the evidence of a society that is absent of any regulations and control?

Now, Ms. Tinybear, to suggest that Mr. Chan should shut his mouth without evidence of a society that is absent of any regulations and control, is tantamount to suggesting that those who possess information that does not agree with you, should be required to shut their mouths. And if one recalls, this type of dictatorial behavior is an issue that you have with both the Iranian and Chinese governments? In fact, in regards to the Iranian government, isn’t that one of the problems that you have brought up: that in stifling the protests, the Iranian government is trying to prevent the voices of those who wish to protest the outcome of the elections? But here you are suggesting the same thing?

[tinybear]

The Iranian and Chinese governments mobilize the whole machinery of the state to shut people up in order to suppress the truth. I, on the other hand, is merely a humble little bear making a gentle suggestion that big and mighty Big Brother Jackie should perhaps engage his brain before opening his mouth.

The situations are totally different, you see what I'm sayin'?

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear The Iranian and Chinese governments mobilize the whole machinery of the state to shut people up in order to suppress the truth. I, on the other hand, is merely a humble little bear making a gentle suggestion that big and mighty Big Brother Jackie should perhaps engage his brain before opening his mouth.

These are people who can deny knowledge of reality to their underlings. And they call this process "the truth." The fascinating thing is, these ruling classes make up a small minority. But they are protected by the authoritarian majority. If things turned around; if the teeming masses put up even a pathetic, meek little challenge to your average ruler, he might run for the hills. But, unfortunately, enough people stand in support of these bastards, or are afraid to appear disloyal.

Grandpa h.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: Praxius I'd kinda figure that he'd know more about his own country and his own culture and what's best for both, more then we would.... he has actually lived in both societies, seen the best and the worst of both and was treated like Hollywood royalty for much of the 90's...... and yet doesn't think our society is good for China's society.

You would think? Now here is the Thing: Mr. Chan is not alone: He’s not alone in having seen the {best} and {worst} of two worlds. He’s not alone in thinking that the way of the West would not be {good} for his society. But alas, poor Mr. Chan is not in {good} company and might want to watch his back; those who think like that are classified as terrorists.

Quote by: Praxius Maybe he has a point?

Of course he doesn’t. What would ever give Mr. Chan the idea that the Western way was not {good} for Chinese society? He could not possibly have any reasons to think that way? There is no {evidence} out there that could lead him to such an idea?

United States of America

1st in Rapes

1st in Assault Victims

1st in Total Crimes

1st in Car thefts

1st in Burglaries

3rd in Total Crime Victims

3rd in Murders Committed by Youths

3rd in Robberies

6th in Assaults Per Capita


United Kingdom

2nd in Total Crime Victims

2nd in Assault Victims

2nd in Total Crimes

2nd in Car thefts

2nd in Drug Offences

3rd in Burglaries

7th in Rapes

7th in Robberies

8th in Assaults Per Capita

Germany

1st in Frauds

1st in Drug Offences

2nd in Burglaries

3rd in Total Crimes

8th in Rapes

8th in Assaults Per Capita

9th in Assaults

10th in Car thefts

10th in Robberies

France

1st in Frauds

3rd in Car thefts

4th in Total Crimes

5th in Bribery victims

6th in Burglaries

7th in Assault victims

9th in Rapes


10th in Assaults

Canada

3rd in Rapes

3rd Drug offences

5th in Assault victims

5th in Car thefts

6th in Assaults

7th in Frauds

7th in Bribery victims

8th in Total Crimes

9th in Burglaries



Really, being in the top 10 in rapes, assault, burglaries, crimes, robberies, etc… should not give an individual the idea that a way of life would not be {good} for a society. Who wouldn’t want such an environment to raise their children in? Who wouldn’t want such an environment for their society? Who would really want live in a society that is ranked at the {bottom} in those categories?

It is clear after examining those statistics that Mr. Chan has really lost his mind. And for all of those reasons, one is definitely going to agree with Ms. Tinybear: Mr. Chan needs to shut up! And only does he need to shut-up, but he needs to be prevented from expressing such {backwards} opinions. After all, why would anyone in their [right] mind turn all of this freedom down? Why would anyone in their [right] mind, who has access to such information, want to turn down the freedom to be raped, burglarized, robbed, assaulted, etc… Why would anyone in their [right] mind want to suggest that the acts of rape, burglary, robbery, and assault are in need of controlling

Quote by: Praxius Then again.... maybe he's just one person with one opinion.

…that is shared with other people who are currently being rendered for having that opinion.