Jackie Chan: Chinese people need to be controlled

[Athena]

Normally, everyone would (or at least should) ignore what he says, except that he represents Hong Kong in many areas, notably sports, tourism and others such as anti-drugs, road safety...etc. In many ways, he is the 'public face' of Hong Kong. What he does and says (unfortunately) gets associated with Hong Kong.

Tiny Bear, you are right again, and what our atheletes, movie and music stars do also represent our country around the world. What American or British, etc., controlled international companies do around the world represents our countries. What our military personsel does, respresents our countries. I think we way underestimate the importance of our being. What we say and do does make a difference.

Some of us represent athiest, Jews, Christians or Muslims. For awhile I represented Avon, and for awhile I represented International Toastmistress Clubs, and now I represent Senior Companions. What we say and do, reflects not only on ourselves, but also the social organizations with which we are identified.

[MyApologies]

Americans have lost the memory of the experience of tyranny, and when the autocracy of England denied them the liberty for which their forefathers fought. I doubt if any posters can define the word "despot", or explain the differences between autocracy and democracy. That is why I write so much.

Vulgarity honors no one. We do have a disconnect if you are arguing in favor of vulgarity and are associating it with freedom. With rights there are duties, and with freedom comes responsibility. We can be as animals or be as the gods. I think of being civilized as being refined, and I am sorry if you disapprove of my position on such matters.

It saddens me when people argue in favor of autocracy and the denial of such basic rights as freedom of speech, and then critize China. This is so hypocritical! Oh well, these discussions wouldn't go very far without opposing opinions. I hope after a good night's sleep. things look better in the morning. Today I feel like I have taken one hell of a beating.

Freedom doesn't mean responsibility. People can be free to be irresponsible. I don't think vulgarity is makes us savage and I don't think censorship makes us civilized. I think words are words. Maybe I just don't get your point, its a bit riddled and vague.

[Athena]

Freedom doesn't mean responsibility. People can be free to be irresponsible. I don't think vulgarity is makes us savage and I don't think censorship makes us civilized. I think words are words. Maybe I just don't get your point, its a bit riddled and vague.

Hi, I may not be able to post for much longer.

The real arguement here is one of authority.

All the posters are allowing what they hate about China to happen in our daily lives. There is a similar thread that supports this one. Both are about the importance of freedom of speech and the limits to our freedom of speech. [B]AND BOTH, are about our relationship to authority. [/B ]The democratic relationship is one of shared authority. When you understand this, you understand the relationship between freedom and responsibility. Verses the autocratic relationship, which is one of being subject to authority. Our liberty and freedom depends on our understanding of these opposing relationships with authority. Our liberty and freedom depends on which one we defend and live by.

If we, the people, do not have shared agreements and shared responsiblity, we loose our liberty and freedom. Autocratic powers will take our liberty and freedom from us, and the people will argue this is a good thing, or at least be powerless to oppose this authority, because so few understand the principles. Most will argue in favor of autocracy, those who do, are the most likely to come to power. Those who argue for democracy won't even be nominated for a position of power. Open your eyes and see this principle played out right here. What we dislike about China, is happening here and now. Wake up!

[tinybear]

Hi, I may not be able to post for much longer.

Why? Are you thinking you might be banned?

[Athena]

Why? Are you thinking you might be banned?

I can not post the reason. A a person living in China would understand that and Jackie Chan's statement.

[tinybear]

Well, I live in China and I know exactly where Jackie Chan is coming from. First, you gotta understand his childhood. He was an apprentice in a Beijing Opera troupe and received harsh training in acrobatics under a very stern teacher. Obeying authority is what he's good at. He thinks he owes his position today to obedience. He worships obedience. He expects it. That's why he said what he said. Even now after all the furore, he's still convinced he's right: that Chinese are different from you white Caucasians who live under a liberal democracy. We don't need your system or your values. We will not thrive under it. We need to be controlled.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Two different Americas? Far from it. It's all the same crap. But my point was that a government is authoritarian by definition.
Grandpa h.

One will agree; authoritarianism is inherent in all forms of government. The Dictatorship and the “Democracy” are both {authoritarian.}

Nah, authoritarianism is just one of many forms of government.

Authoritarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

…that is present in all forms of government. Authoritarianism is essentially a form of government that is present in all forms of government and is a form of government that all forms of government take.

But we're digressing....

Some may argue that you have been for a while now.

Well, here's what's crossing my mind: Are Chinese naturally submissive in character?

Who isn’t {submissive} in character? Are you not {naturally submissive} in character?

Do they never think of challenging authority?

Do you {always} think of challenging authority?

Secondly, do you always think of challenging the authority that you agree with? Or are you always in the habit of challenging the authority that you yourself have championed and instituted? And if not, why?

Do they think that being controlled is the way to go?

Do you not think that being controlled is the way to go? Tinybear, you sound as if you do not think that being controlled is the way to go?

Secondly, you also sound as if you believe that you are not being controlled in some way or fashion? So, questions: Do you stop at stop signs? Do you go when the light turns green? Do you drive on a certain side of the street? Do you vote for certain individuals? Do you go to work at a certain time? Do you hate certain countries? Do you like certain countries? What do you do that is not being controlled?

I mean here's Jackie Chan; a guy who has risen to the top of his profession. A leader in his field. But...underneath it all, he has this slave mentality.

What is a {slave} mentality? What does it mean to have a {slave} mentality?

He thinks it's better to controlled than to be 'too free'. What gives here?

Or maybe he just thinks that it is better to control and to be free?

[RickSp]

Chinese are different from you white Caucasians who live under a liberal democracy. We don't need your system or your values. We will not thrive under it. We need to be controlled.

So now you speak for all Chinese?

Maybe you and Jackie should ride out on the Grass Mud Horse you rode in on, back to the Ma Le Desert.

[The Black Ghost]

I think hes wrong, but I think there is logic in what he is saying.

Yes, people need to have strong rulers--left to their own devices they can create a very unruly society. In China wheere the population is so large it is difficult to manage, there is need for control.


However, they need gradual freedoms given to them, because making everything happen at once may do nothing to help the situation.

[tinybear]

So now you speak for all Chinese?

Maybe you and Jackie should ride out on the Grass Mud Horse you rode in on, back to the Ma Le Desert.

Hey I didn't purport to speak for all Chinese. Jackie did though. That's why I think he should relinquish all his public posts which put him forward as representing Hong Kong and/or China because he came for a lot of criticisms from Chinese all over the world after his comments.

[Jack_Sparrow]

jacky chan doesnt stand to gain or loose. Hes already at the top and rich, having had thoughaly benifited from the western culture of freedom uunlike many of the chinese. so id rather put it to the opinion of all the other chinese people who might actually benifit or suffer from the situation and see what they believe is best.

What the poor want is out. They want green cards for a reason.

[Athena]

Well, I live in China and I know exactly where Jackie Chan is coming from. First, you gotta understand his childhood. He was an apprentice in a Beijing Opera troupe and received harsh training in acrobatics under a very stern teacher. Obeying authority is what he's good at. He thinks he owes his position today to obedience. He worships obedience. He expects it. That's why he said what he said. Even now after all the furore, he's still convinced he's right: that Chinese are different from you white Caucasians who live under a liberal democracy. We don't need your system or your values. We will not thrive under it. We need to be controlled.

I wish you could read all my private post, or better yet, that we could freely discuss some things. This faith in authority or at least willingness to be subject to it, is not limited to China, and that is why I keep talking about this fact and getting in trouble.

However, you made an excellent point! This is what makes us different and superior to you. Not so different from the obedience of the Japanese in WWII, nor the Germans following Hitler. The exact same mentality is fueling the fundamental Muslim take over of countries. The Muslims are trained to be submissive to God, and the Quran is what provides their understanding of God, and if they are illiterate, they depend on their leaders to explain God's will. The extreme obedience is their claim to pride, honor and sense of belonging. This is who I am and until the death I will defend that.

I think it is an error to ignore cultural differences and to assume around the world everyone wants the same thing. There are people who do see the US as infurior and something to defend against.