Is Abortion a woman's issue?

[princessme23]

well thats why i said i dont believe in abortion, unless under certain circumstances like the ones you yourself pointed out? but you assumed I hadnt thought about that, right? of course some cases are innocent but some people are serial abortitists!?
you cant use it as a constant excuse, theres only so many times a person can 'forget' contraception!
im not pro life, they want all people to keep they're babys, i only wish it wasnt as easy to have an abortion as it is today.
maybe if things were simply reviewed more closely, i do believe in choice, but over and over again?
thats the point i was making, sorry it didnt sound that way was trying to keep on the actual topic....

[Cruella]

I genuinely don't think there are that many women using abortion as a form of birth control. At least, not in the western world. Russians do though, I believe.

[princessme23]

here, you can have three abortions on the nhs, after that theres health risk's so they dont like to do it but will.
not birth control, a solution to a problem.
i have known people that dont use contraception time and time again and wonder why they keep ending up pregnant! Come on, you cant seriously eliminate the fact this happens. we ourselves see it as a very hard decsion, the truth though is that a minority do not.
after someones third or fourth abortion you've got to be asking......why?

[princessme23]

really, in russia? what the heck!?

[Cruella]

I am not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't routine. An anecdote ("someone I know") doesn't mean all women are doing it, nor should you assume that most women are doing it either.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: princessme23 well thats why i said i dont believe in abortion, unless under certain circumstances like the ones you yourself pointed out? but you assumed I hadnt thought about that, right? of course some cases are innocent but some people are serial abortitists!? you cant use it as a constant excuse, theres only so many times a person can 'forget' contraception! im not pro life, they want all people to keep they're babys, i only wish it wasnt as easy to have an abortion as it is today. maybe if things were simply reviewed more closely, i do believe in choice, but over and over again? thats the point i was making, sorry it didnt sound that way was trying to keep on the actual topic....

Actually, if you read over my post carefully, I don't think I actually accused you personally of not having thought through the issue. I did attack the phrasing, but more in the sense of how we frame such issues. Essential, not specifically a "you" problem.

I'm not in your head. I have no idea how much you may or may not have thought through the issue.

I'd love to see the evidence of "serial abortionists;" I am assuming you mean as in "getting abortions." This is a talking point of some on the Pro-Life side, yet I've no evidence of massive numbers of "serial" abortions. Unless you meant those who do abortions... then that's what they do for a living (at least in part) so I don't get the point you're making.

Here again, back to phrasing, you go back to "forgetting" contraception... though I don't recall referring to that specifically. I wouldn't. This framing of the debate doesn't work, because it assumes a vast majority, or large portion, of abortions are simple forgetfulness. Over simplification.

I'm actually for some system that might help people: especially youth, through the process that might make it harder to get one. It doesn't need to be politicized or overly theological in nature though. Something independent of parents and church that could help our youth make the best decision considering their very individual circumstances.

My only assumption was you are more Pro-Life oriented than I am. Perhaps a wrong assumption, but from the content of the discussion... probably not.

And I also wonder what actual stats on "over and over again" are. I suspect: very, very low. One side assumes almost never happens, the other a lot. I would assume closer to the first, but not that close.

As I said, there's nothing easy about this... for anyone.

[Ken Carman]

i have known people that dont use contraception time and time again and wonder why they keep ending up pregnant!

Certainly this speaks to education, something again that parents and theologians too often block at all costs. They are their own daughter's and son's worst enemies sometimes.

Not only is abortion mostly a woman's concern and issue therefore, but more important: an individual's. Not the church. Not even necessarily the parents: depending on the situation. The father? This relies even more on the individual story/situation. If we try to assess such things without all that... our solutions will be worse than unsatisfactory.

[Cruella]

Article regarding primary birth control in Russia: Abortion Remains Top Birth-Control Option In Russia

[princessme23]

lol. sorry i meant specifically woman having repeated abortions.and you are right, not all cases are forgetfullness i was just voicing one side of it thats all, you cant think of it all it would blow your mind!
im saying i know first hand, i was a young mum, i know what went on in my specific area of where i live i was merely using that as an example. sorry for confusion, as i said i just dont like to go on and on!
but yes, their are woman who have repeteated abortions and what i say is......we should be asking why?
but that agrees with your theory of helping youths and making it harder.
such an issue! hmmm guess they wont be officially releasing statistics of how many people have mor then 2 in a lifetime anytime soon, so maybe we will never know if what i have experianced is isolated or not?

[Cruella]

National Abortion Federation: Women Who Have Abortions

[QUOTE]MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.

In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant. Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%). Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high. [/QUOTE]

[Cruella]

Meltdown impact extends to abortion, birth control | World Latest | guardian.co.uk This is interesting, how the recession will affect US women who can no longer afford to pay for birth control ...

[princessme23]

thankyou just read the russian article.
how much suffering will more people endure through lack of education?
that truelly is a sad thing.
That really is shocking to me.

[princessme23]

i never said it was used as birth control? i said we need to take control of the situation when someone has had three or more?
i never said it was easy, i just know it happens, especially in my part, as its a bit poorer then most parts and its probably, as someone mentioned lack of education.
anyway sorry we've all gone off topic completely!

[princessme23]

oh forgot to mention everyone in england gets free birth control anyway. all of it, and some are 99.9% effective as you know already?

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: princessme23 lol. sorry i meant specifically woman having repeated abortions.and you are right, not all cases are forgetfullness i was just voicing one side of it thats all, you cant think of it all it would blow your mind! im saying i know first hand, i was a young mum, i know what went on in my specific area of where i live i was merely using that as an example. sorry for confusion, as i said i just dont like to go on and on! but yes, their are woman who have repeteated abortions and what i say is......we should be asking why? but that agrees with your theory of helping youths and making it harder. such an issue! hmmm guess they wont be officially releasing statistics of how many people have mor then 2 in a lifetime anytime soon, so maybe we will never know if what i have experianced is isolated or not?

Wonder if they even have such statistics. One must also look at who took the statistics.

I would never claim there are no women who have had several consecutive abortions, though I suspect the number is low. This is not the type of procedure most would seek over and over intentionally. I certainly would wonder how many of that statistic, whatever it may be, may be mentally challenged in some way. Seems to be that unable to consider prevention of any type: either with available methods or avoidance of the act itself, bespeaks a possible mental issue. Or an eagerness to get attention, which means they simply would seek some other method if this wasn't available.

You're probably right. We'll never know.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha Article regarding primary birth control in Russia: Abortion Remains Top Birth-Control Option In Russia

Might want to check your link. I'm getting a story; not about Russia, but about how the economic downturn encourages abortions. Did make an interesting post over at ltsaloon.org though.

[Sapientia]

It is a moral and ethical issue, quite simply. Arguing for abortion on the basis of female rights is really one of the most absurd pro-choice arguments.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: Sapientia It is a moral and ethical issue, quite simply. Arguing for abortion on the basis of female rights is really one of the most absurd pro-choice arguments.

Is it? Do women not have the right to bodily autonomy?

[Cruella]

Quote by: Ken Carman Might want to check your link. I'm getting a story; not about Russia, but about how the economic downturn encourages abortions. Did make an interesting post over at ltsaloon.org though.

Um ... you might want to check which link you were clicking, as I posted one about Russia and one about how the economic downturn is affecting birth-control choices, Ken ...

[Sapientia]

Quote by: Chris the Chees Is it? Do women not have the right to bodily autonomy?

Any "right" the woman has to choose is negated by the fact that the fetus is a separate entity with a separate set of DNA.