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Thread: Lets see anti-abortionists argue against this one

  1. #85
    Volcanic Erupter Cephus's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: grandpa View Post
    Well, one might cry upon getting shot for no good reason, which has happened in similar situations.
    If you're shot for no good reason, by definition, you don't know it's coming and you didn't bring it on yourself. If you purposely violate the law for which there is a proscribed penalty, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

  2. #86
    blasphemer grandpa's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Cephus View Post
    If you're shot for no good reason, by definition, you
    don't know it's coming and you didn't bring it on
    yourself.
    If you purposely violate the law for which there is
    a proscribed penalty, then you have no one to blame
    but yourself.
    Actually, you can blame a number of other people, such as those carrying out the penalty and those who may have drafted it. Then there are those who defend the penalty. This isn't simply about one person's decision. Group dynamics are involved.

    If I were around when these drug laws were proposed, I could have
    tried to cure them of their delusions with only two words: Free Society. Unfortunately, though, these people don't understand what a free society entails. I guess the same goes for you.

    Grandpa h.

    Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.

  3. #87
    Volcanic Erupter Cephus's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: grandpa
    If I were around when these drug laws were proposed, I could have
    tried to cure them of their delusions with only two words: Free Society. Unfortunately, though, these people don't understand what a free society entails. I guess the same goes for you.
    You can still try to change the laws, all you have to do is follow the proscribed methods to do so and convince a majority of voters that you're right. You haven't done that. In fact, you haven't even tried, so far as I know. Therefore, you're just blowing smoke.

    Come on, if you think you're right, put up or shut up.

    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

  4. #88
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    Quote Quote by: Cephus View Post
    Fine, I'll shoot you in the head, there's a 99% chance that you'll die, but hey, you *MIGHT* survive.
    Yes, I might.



    Great, then I trust those people aren't taking any medicines. After all, disease is just nature taking its course, right?
    It could be. Then again, developing medicines could be human nature taking its course - much like prey running from a predator.


  5. #89
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    Quote Quote by: Cephus View Post
    Wrong. There is no logical reason you can make that claim, there is no source for these supposed rights outside of society, nor can you find a single "right" that applies across all cultures, across all times and across all peoples. It just doesn't exist.
    Much wiser men than you or I disagree with you:

    Natural Law and Natural Rights
    Natural Rights
    The Philosophy of John Locke

    Rights are solely granted by the society under which you live. If you think otherwise, back it up.
    There is no logical reason you can make that claim.


  6. #90
    blasphemer grandpa's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Cephus View Post
    You can still try to change the laws, all you
    have to do is follow the proscribed methods to do
    so and convince a majority of voters that you're right.
    You haven't done that.
    I don't have to do that, and neither does anyone else. People can and will disobey these illegitimate and stupid laws, regardless of where they stand regarding the legal process. It might cause a fire in the collective belly of authoritarian ideologues, but that's standard.

    You're right that I'm always faced with opportunity costs, though. I could have written letters while we were busy arguing with each other on this forum. However, letters don't necessarily accomplish anything. Right now I'm pretty content with just telling it like it is, and whoever wants to listen can listen. That's a little more modest and reasonable than storming into people's homes, and putting them in iron cages for growing, selling or smoking a plant.

    Grandpa h.

    Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.

  7. #91
    Volcanic Erupter Cephus's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Chancellor View Post
    Yes, I might.
    So does that mean you're willing to take that chance, of are you going to realize that you have a much larger chance of dying and not go for the head-shot at all?

    It could be. Then again, developing medicines could be human nature taking its course - much like prey running from a predator.
    Prey run from predators to avoid injury, they don't come up with medicines to heal themselves once they get injured.

    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

  8. #92
    Volcanic Erupter Cephus's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Chancellor View Post
    Much wiser men than you or I disagree with you:

    Natural Law and Natural Rights
    Natural Rights
    The Philosophy of John Locke

    There is no logical reason you can make that claim.
    Ah, appeals to authority. Will the fallacies never cease?

    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

  9. #93
    Volcanic Erupter Cephus's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: grandpa View Post
    I don't have to do that, and neither does anyone else. People can and will disobey these illegitimate and stupid laws, regardless of where they stand regarding the legal process. It might cause a fire in the collective belly of authoritarian ideologues, but that's standard.
    Yes, they can and will, and their civil disobedience will, more often than not, get them just punishment for their actions. You're more than welcome to disregard any law you want, just don't be surprised when they come and take you away for doing it.

    Civil disobedience doesn't give you immunity from the laws you violate.

    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

  10. #94
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    Quote Quote by: Cephus View Post
    Ah, appeals to authority. Will the fallacies never cease?
    It's no different from how many people here appeal to "science" as authority. The fact of the matter is that most people here tend to require that someone else has said something before you did in order for it to be accepted.


  11. #95
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    Quote Quote by: Cephus View Post
    So does that mean you're willing to take that chance, of are you going to realize that you have a much larger chance of dying and not go for the head-shot at all?
    There may be circumstances under which taking that chance might be the best option.



    Prey run from predators to avoid injury, they don't come up with medicines to heal themselves once they get injured.
    Medicines could be viewed as a way of running from the predator of illness/injury that has already harmed you - as opposed to, say, just sitting there and letting the illness/injury kill you.


  12. #96
    Igneous Magma EscVelocity's Avatar
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    I think the abortion was medically necessary. She is so young, i doubt she would be mature enough to handle the changes your body goes through while pregnant, even just the hormone fluctuations. It's terrible they found out so late though....the abortion itself will probably be traumatic to her as well.
    I think they should have hung that scumbag.


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