US v European Healthcare

[Osborn F Enready]

Cruella said:
Accidents are beyond an individual's control Osborn, and often result in ill-health.

Obviously, hence the need for individuals to use common sense to prepare for such accidents by SAVING MONEY, or investing privately in a health care plan.

Cruella said:
How would a government, or an individual control those kinds of ill-health?

PPPPPPP. Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

In order, who bears most responsibility for a persons health.....

*the individual
*the individuals family
*the individuals friends
*the individuals supported charity orgs.

A man is only as good as his word, and a mans credit is only as good as his history of repayment for valid debt. At all of the above levels, that "history" is both verifiable and relevant. With government, it is not.

There should be humility and a measure of shame to be associated with asking for help..... that is the case when a person is forced to provide for themselves, from family, friends, etc..... not when applying for charity from an anonymous, faceless gubbmint agency, especially since its obvious government CAN'T dole charity, as it has no means of EARNING money.... only a means of theiving it via taxation, which means it has no right or entitlement to such monies, much less, for redistribution based on subjective moral purposes.

[Nono]

If it wasn't for the CHARITY and MORALITY of capitalist nations, every socialist inspired nation would have long ago died off and fell off the planet.

Kindly stop shouting, Os.

By "socialist inspired nation" I suppose you mean Canada, or the UK, or France or Sweden? Because these are examples, among others, of countries with successful medicare systems.

They'd sink like a stone without the charity'n'morality of "capitalist nations", that it?

[Osborn F Enready]

Nono said:
Kindly stop shouting, Os

.

Kindly ask if that is why I am capitalizing things.... before assuming.

The things capitalized are not shouting, but capitalized for clarity of the crux of the issue.

Nono said:
By "socialist inspired nation" I suppose you mean Canada, or the UK, or France or Sweden? Because these are examples, among others, of countries with successful medicare systems.

Those are some of them, certainly.

Nono said:
They'd sink like a stone without the charity'n'morality of "capitalist nations", that it?

Yes, as well as they would sink like a stone if not for the benefits the medical technology, pharmaceutical technology in this country has brought them.

[Cruella]

Yes, as well as they would sink like a stone if not for the benefits the medical technology, pharmaceutical technology in this country has brought them.

Ah that again, where are those pesky statistics to support this theory, Osborn?

[Osborn F Enready]

Cruella, are you denying that the U.S. has played a role in the benefit of all nations healthcare technology or pharmaceutical technology?

If not, I don't see what these stats will provide.

[Cruella]

No, I'm not denying it, I'm genuinely interested to see what the results would be.

There's a line of debate over here that says a pure capitalist society actually inhibits rather than promotes innovation, and I was wondering if statistics (on this topic at least) would back that up - I'm not sure what side of that particular debate I come down on, and it's not entirely relevant to the OP in this case. Might make another interesting thread at some point.

Also off-topic, this is the only forum I've visited where capitalisation isn't considered shouting, by the way.

[Osborn F Enready]

Cruella said:
No, I'm not denying it, I'm genuinely interested to see what the results would be.

There's a line of debate over here that says a pure capitalist society actually inhibits rather than promotes innovation, and I was wondering if statistics (on this topic at least) would back that up

I have been looking for this type of breakdown for quite some time, but I haven't seen a specific breakdown along those lines yet, from any given perspective.

There are several sites and studies I can find on the history of medical advancement, but none broken down along national lines.

[Aussie]

I would have thought a Christian nation would be looking after all it's flock including keeping them healthy, no?

[Laurahill]

If it wasn't for the CHARITY and MORALITY of capitalist nations, every socialist inspired nation would have long ago died off and fell off the planet.

Perhaps you should ask why your governments are capitalist in international trade, but refuse the citizens that same right?

How many Europeans or Canadians WANT to give up cheaper or free access to education and healthcare? Not many I'd wager....

Also, keeping in spirit with a debate forum please provide any evidence to back up the claim about "socialist" nations falling off the earth. As far as I knew a certain "individual responsibility nation" pays its bills by taking trillions in loans from COMMUNISTS.


Also, not to sound rude, but you have yet to respond to my earlier posts. I believe I "win" those points of debate then? Unless you wish to further debate my points then I must assume you recognize the superiority of the national education and healthcare system.

-

[Laurahill]

Cruella, are you denying that the U.S. has played a role in the benefit of all nations healthcare technology or pharmaceutical technology?

If not, I don't see what these stats will provide.

I believe this is quite easily explained by simple greed. If your going to spend millions to develop a product it's best done in a region where you'll make the most profit selling it. American's healthcare system is highly profitable when times are good, and not so when times are bad. Pfizer is considering large scale layoffs in my state - a direct result of the times. Even healthcare and pharmaceuticals are affected when you are all part of a massive chain of consumerism.

Lacking the current system medical companies should be able to do just fine progressing off tax payer funded developments.

[Laurahill]

I would have thought a Christian nation would be looking after all it's flock including keeping them healthy, no?

I think the Christian response would be: "Jesus wouldn't want us to give free healthcare because fairies, colored folk, and red communists will gain from it"

[brisbane buddy]

Exactly, and to allow government to aid and abet that cause is unconscionable. Its an attempt at legitimizing theft and coercion.

Like capitalism doesn't have people who don't want a free ride? Capitalism though has it on the very top and the very bottom of the system, and with a very sick and ailing health system.

Cheers.