White Privilege

[Sappho]

Quote by: SoylentGreen As pointed out previously it is not about what they own or what they achieve. Even if a black man got to be president the white trash would still think he is a better person simply because he is white.

Well that's not white privilege, that's just racism.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Sappho Well that's not white privilege, that's just racism.

White privilege is racism. It is not that whites are more privileged , it is the perception that they are. It isn't about the reality of what is happening it is about maintaining a view of privilege despite what is really going on.

The point really is white privilege doesn't actually exist but if someone believes they are better simply because they are white then it takes on a reality of it's own.

Let's try it from this angle. I am sure you must have heard the old saw that we are all one people in this country. The underlining assumption in this is that , so long as we are white , speak english and salute the queen.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: shawmutt A bad example? According to him it's "well documented fact"! I think it's a shining example of how out of touch the "well-meaning" folks are when it comes to this topic.

What bad example. You have no idea what hurdles Obama had to clear that his white peers didn't , do you? All you know is where he ended up.

Barack Obama is exceptional, to the point where one suspects he could overcome any obstacles. Yet Obama represents the 1% of the Senate who are African American... and less than 10% of the House, despite the fact that 13% of Americans are black.

Looking at the exceptional doesn't tell you anything but that there are exceptions. Most of us are just average, and the average black makes less money, lives a shorter life, is more often unemployed, etc. etc. etc.

Are you saying it's all their fault?

And it is STILL a well documented fact that... well, I've already listed them. Here's some more. Not to mention the practice of redlining...

"Redlining is the practice of denying or increasing the cost of services such as banking, insurance, access to jobs,[2] access to health care,[3] or even supermarkets[4] to residents in certain often racially determined[5] areas. The most devastating form of redlining and the most common use of the term refers to mortgage discrimination in which middle income black and Hispanic residents are denied loans available to lower income whites."

Quote by: Sappho We're looking for proof of white privilege here; not just more unsubstantiated claims.

No you're not. You'd refuse to believe proof if it was handed to you.

About 10 years ago, I asked the 3 black students in my class if any of them had ever been pulled over for DWB.

You know what DWB is, right? It's call 'Driving While Black' and refers in those incidents when blacks or hispanics are pulled over by police for not other reason than to be questioned... usually along the lines of "What business do you have in this (swanky) neighborhood" or "Who's (nice, expensive) car is this that you're driving?"

They all raised their hands, and were able to recount one or more incidents. So Sappho, when's the last time you were pulled over by the police just to be asked what you were doing in a certain neighborhood, or who owned the nice car you were driving?

Fact: Minority drivers are 3 times more likely to get searched. Whites are more likely to get a lighter sentence if arrested. On first time drug bust, with identical circumstances, blacks are 48 TIMES more likely to go to jail.

In housing...

-- Whites are offered more choices; 60%-90% of housing units shown to whites are not made available to blacks.
-- 72.1% of whites own their own home opposed to 48.1% for African Americans
-- 46% of whites had help from their family in making down payments on homes compared to 12% for African Americans
-- Whites are half as likely to be turned down for a mortgage or home improvement loan
-- Whites pay on average a 8.12% interest rate on their mortgage, lower than the 8.44% African Americans pay on average
-- The median home equity for whites is $58,000 compared to $40,000 for African Americans

Here's an essay by Heidi Schlumpf, who did the first extensive study on 'White Privilege'.

Quote by: Shawmutt I don't see that in the post regarding your complaint...yes he said ' fact ' but that is just a reference to his general statement wherein he used a bad example.

And once again, you have absolutely no idea what hurdles Barack Obama had to overcome that his white peers didn't, so kindly stow the 'Bad Example' crap. Simply because something's harder doesn't mean it's insurmountable.

I've already included a few statistical tidbits above, but the most telling have been televised experiments in which a white man and a black man -each equipped with identical educations, work histories, financial histories, etc. - were sent out to rent an apartment, buy a car, apply for a loan, apply for a job. Unfortunately I can't find records, even though I can specifically recall seeing at least three such studies.

Regardless, I can continue throwing out confirming research as it continues to appear. Here's another...

Although its effect on the race gap in housing transitions is small, we find strong evidence that black applicants are almost twice as likely as comparable white households to be rejected, even when credit history proxies and measures of household wealth are accounted for.

Quote by: Sappho That the whites are not privileged is what confuses me. Rather they are deemed to be the lowest of the low... so that no matter where they go, they lack that privilege you claim they have.

Except they aren't the "lowest of the low". Their 'White Privilege' kicks in when competing with blacks as low on the economic scale as they are. Suddenly, a dumb, ignorant, uneducated redneck becomes a bit more attractive than a dumb, ignorant, uneducated black.

Quote by: Sappho That many blacks would be treated better than these white trash is what confuses me.

Ahh, the bliss of willful over-simplification.

Sappho, no one is saying that racism hasn't been dramatically reduced, or that "white privilege" dominates every aspect of everday life. No one is going to hire a third-grade educated white redneck over a Harvard educated black. You're willfully oversimplifying what's being argued. What we're saying is that there's a good chance that, for example, a 3rd grade educated black man will likely get a harsher sentence for the exact same crime committed by a 3rd grade eucated white.

You following along?

Quote by: Sappho I disagree... already we have an example of whites being down cast into the lowest of kinds of class... and white trash can and do engage in inter-racial relationships.

No, we haven't. You're the one who's defined them as the "lowest of the low". I'm not going to argue who is more poor than whom, but this I do know...

"Poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics greatly exceed the national average. In 2004, 24.7 percent of blacks and 21.9 percent of Hispanics were poor, compared to 8.6 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 9.8 percent of Asians."

White Trailer Trash may not have it all that well, but I suspect the real "lowest of the low" reside in other communities.

Quote by: Sappho So an ordinary middle class black family with children in private education, with parents in corporate employment, who dress well, live in a middle class suburb etc... are going to have their class misrepresented?

Very good... you're catching on. Yes, there's a more than good chance that an ordinary, casually dressed, middle class black man going into... say... a store, will arouse more suspicion, and be presumed to be of lower class, than his white counterpart.

Sappho, do you know who Jack Kemp is? He was a fiscally conservative Republican congressman who ran as Bob Dole's vice-Presidential running mate in 1996, against Bill Clinton. He was also probably the only Republican to support affirmative action. The reason why was that before going to Congress, he was the starting quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. He lived, worked and played with blacks day in and day out, and was absolutely horrified to witness on a daily basis, how highly talented athletes who were supposed to be highly esteemed heroes, and were his close friends, were constantly and shabbily treated by subtle and not so subtle racism.

Quote by: Sappho Care to put some context into this meaningless statement

He's not even trying to understand, Soylent.

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[Sappho]

Quote by: SoylentGreen White privilege is racism. It is not that whites are more privileged , it is the perception that they are. It isn't about the reality of what is happening it is about maintaining a view of privilege despite what is really going on.

Oh ok... so white privilege is just another word for racism... like a politically correct way of saying racism, so it doesn't sound so bad?

Does that mean that there is black privilege in african countries, coffee privilege in south american countries, olive privilege in mediterainian countries and yellow privilage in asian countries?

Let's try it from this angle. I am sure you must have heard the old saw that we are all one people in this country. The underlining assumption in this is that , so long as we are white , speak english and salute the queen.

No sorry. I'm not that old. I've only ever know multiculturalism. It was a policy in place when I was a kid. I live next to turks and their daughter was my playmate until she was sent back to turkey to get married... at 12... my parents had to explain cultural difference to me for that one.

[Sappho]

If your country is suffering from white privilege, how did Rice get her high powered job and how did Obama come to be the most viable and popular candidate in your elections?

And how come you have black presenters on tv and wy is eddie murphy and that washington dude so popular in hollywood.

You have to understand here... I haven't been to the us... I'm relying on different experiences to you guys.

[Sappho]

He's not even trying to understand, Soylent.

I think the fact that I am asking questions and restating what you are telling me, to assess my learning, shows that i am trying to understand.

I think this is more of an issue for you not trying hard enough to help me understand. Just because I speak english, does not mean that my nation is like your nation... As I am learning, we are completely different culturally.

Why are there so many poor black americans?
What are their educational standards like?

[shawmutt]

Quote by: Sonart you have no idea what hurdles Obama had to clear that his white peers didn't , do you?

Neither do you. That's my point.

[Sappho]

"But without your better-than-average public school education..." - HEIDI SCHLUMPF

Is this saying that your very govt. within which blacks are present are one of the main causes of this white privilage. That your govt promotes this kind of racist sh*t!!!!!

Is this saying that affluent blacks are just as much to blame as whites of all clasess?

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Jack Huh? A bigot is defined as: # a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn # Narrow minded or prejudice in your beliefs. Bible Dictionary # A person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious creed, opinion, or practice; a person blindly attached to an opinion ... Dictionary

Take your pick there. Sounds to me like he's a black apologist with a healthy dose of the bigot in there to me.

Tim Wise is: "...among the most prominent anti-racist writers and activists in the U.S., and has been called, "One of the most brilliant, articulate and courageous critics of white privilege in the nation," by best-selling author and professor Michael Eric Dyson, of Georgetown University. Wise has spoken in 48 states, and on over 400 college campuses, including Harvard, Stanford, and the Law Schools at Yale and Columbia, and has spoken to community groups around the nation. Wise is the author of White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son, and Affirmative Action: Racial Preference in Black and White. He has contributed essays to seventeen books, and is one of several persons featured in White Men Challenging Racism: Thirty-Five Personal Stories, from Duke University Press. A collection of his essays, Speaking Treason Fluently: Anti-Racist Reflections From an Angry White Male, will be released in fall 2008. He received the 2001 British Diversity Award for best feature essay on race issues, and his writings have appeared in dozens of popular, professional and scholarly journals. Wise has provided anti-racism training to teachers nationwide, and has conducted trainings with physicians and medical industry professionals on how to combat racial inequities in health care. He has also trained corporate, government, entertainment, military and law enforcement officials on methods for dismantling racism in their institutions, and has served as a consultant for plaintiff's attorneys in federal discrimination cases in New York and Washington State." (from the link in the OP) Please point out where in his bio there's any justification for labeling Wise a bigot.

His credentials come from all over the place, but how do I know that these credentials aren't being submitted by people who think just like him. Give an unbiased source if there is one.

I know all about how the blacks history has influenced the way they are today in a nutshell, but I don't believe there is white priviledge anymore, it has gone away with the dinosaur, but some are still trying to hold onto it like gold.

I can't debate with a position that indicates no awareness of the current political climate in the U.S. Watch the news, read a newspaper and maybe we can intelligently debate the issue of race in this election in a more appropriate thread. I'll respond to a few other political comments, but it's heading off topic and I won't address them again unless they relate to the topic.

You're starting to throw around that intelligent word. Hey, I know you're intelligent, and I know what I am, too, but a difference of opinion doesn't make me unaware. I grew up in a black neighborhood, went to a predominately black HS, had mostly black friends growing up, new many of the intricasies of their culture, and they are just people like everybody else. What I feel is their problem, and also the so-called "white trash" problem that is getting thrown around here is on the socio-economic level, but all the AA's who have been able to achieve a middle class life-style are from what I can tell treated equally along with their white cohorts. The rich blacks or AA's (African American's) are treated equally, and there is no negligible difference. They do not have to fight any harder than anybody else. They have made it from what I can tell. Authors can write all day that they haven't, but I think they have. The lower socio-economic rung is the same for blacks and whites as well.

Alan Keyes in 1995 and...? Further, what does this have to do with White privilege? The references to this campaign are examples, not the sum of Wise's arguments.

Jesse Jackson, Rev Al Sharpton. When giving examples there have been Democrats as well.

And can you honestly deny that had he been non-White people would have reacted with the same, "Ah, he's a kid, it's not an issue"?

I think if he were black this wouldn't be mentioned, period.

Really? Have you heard about Rev. John Hagee, a McCain supporter?

Did McCain sit in his church for 20 years, but hear nothing like Obama did?

I'd say McCain's response to this issue sounds a lot like Obama's to similar accusations.

Don't know that much about this to comment, and I'm in a hurry right now, sorry.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Son No you're not. You'd refuse to believe proof if it was handed to you. About 10 years ago, I asked the 3 black students in my class if any of them had ever been pulled over for DWB. You know what DWB is, right? It's call 'Driving While Black'

1) I'm not Sappho.

2) Did these police officers charge the students with Driving While Black, or did you by any chance base this claim on pure speculation?

Quote by: Son Fact: Minority drivers are 3 times more likely to get searched. Whites are more likely to get a lighter sentence if arrested. On first time drug bust, with identical circumstances, blacks are 48 TIMES more likely to go to jail. In housing... -- Whites are offered more choices; 60%-90% of housing units shown to whites are not made available to blacks. -- 72.1% of whites own their own home opposed to 48.1% for African Americans -- 46% of whites had help from their family in making down payments on homes compared to 12% for African Americans -- Whites are half as likely to be turned down for a mortgage or home improvement loan -- Whites pay on average a 8.12% interest rate on their mortgage, lower than the 8.44% African Americans pay on average -- The median home equity for whites is $58,000 compared to $40,000 for African Americans

There are hundreds of differences between an average black person and an average white person. Different average treatments of either race can be attributed to any of the average differences between the races. No reason to assume that it's due to racism.

[shawmutt]

Most black folks I know don't want or need the well-meaning white person's "help". Over time and with work black men will be on equal footing as whites. Forcing the issue with legislation and busing "inner city" kids to suburban schools, for example, don't and won't help.

Now on to another topic--"male privilege".

[Dan_77]

Quote by: Diogenes The reason why 90% of players are black now ( they didn't used to be ) is because sports was one of the first very few opportunities available to them that they could get with a limited education at the time.

Quote by: SoylentGreen And 90% of those who run and organise those games making the greater profit are white. It is still the blacks who need representation in that area of the game.

Pretty funny that two people responded to my post without addressing the issue.

My point was that there are areas where whites are vastly underrepresented, areas that represent great opportunities to become wealthy and "privileged", yet no one is seeking to give whites affirmative action to get them into these areas.

It's because this is how thinking is flawed: If whites are not represented in something, it's because of myriad factors, but never racism. If blacks are not represented, the ONLY possible, default explanation is "racism".

It's laughably illogical.

Quote by: Diogenes You are either accidentally or intentionally missing the point...I was talking about the effects of slavery ...I assume most people are smart enough to see it in that context...or do I have to assume you can't do this and I must be very specific the next time as you cannot tell what I am talking about otherwise?

The problem is, neither you nor anyone else has shown that there ARE still "effects" of slavery.

All that has been provided is one, massive logical fallacy: Correlation without causation.

Quote by: Sonart Barack Obama is exceptional, to the point where one suspects he could overcome any obstacles. Yet Obama represents the 1% of the Senate who are African American... and less than 10% of the House, despite the fact that 13% of Americans are black.

Again: It is RACISM to say that political representatives must be of a certain skin color to properly represent their constituents. I would say that since most blacks belong to one of the two major parties, and I do not, they are VASTLY more represented in Congress than I am.

But silly me - I judge how well someone represents me on their beliefs and actions, not their skin color. I know that's a crazy concept, but you should try to wrap your head around it.

Not to mention the practice of redlining...

Which modern banking - with internet applications and mortgage underwriters never meeting the applicants - has made impossible, at least on the basis of race.

But thanks for playing.

About 10 years ago, I asked the 3 black students in my class if any of them had ever been pulled over for DWB.

The obvious anecdotal fallacy of this statement means it doesn't require any further response.

Fact: Minority drivers are 3 times more likely to get searched. Whites are more likely to get a lighter sentence if arrested. On first time drug bust, with identical circumstances, blacks are 48 TIMES more likely to go to jail.

Except that there is no such thing as "identical" circumstances.

Correlation without causation fallacy.

Ahh, the bliss of willful over-simplification.

An ironic statement considering your propensity to over-simplify any given statistic into proof of massive, widespread racism.

Quote by: The Bacon Guy There are hundreds of differences between an average black person and an average white person. Different average treatments of either race can be attributed to any of the average differences between the races. No reason to assume that it's due to racism.

Someone gets it.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Sonart .What bad example. You have no idea what hurdles Obama had to clear that his white peers didn't , do you? All you know is where he ended up.

And....vice versa, we never know what hurdles anyone has had.

"Redlining is the practice of denying or increasing the cost of services such as banking, insurance, access to jobs,[2] access to health care,[3] or even supermarkets[4] to residents in certain often racially determined[5] areas. The most devastating form of redlining and the most common use of the term refers to mortgage discrimination in which middle income black and Hispanic residents are denied loans available to lower income whites."

Is this why we now have the Fannie Mae crisis? They did drop some of this to give people with bad credit, or no credit, opportunities, and they reniged on their loans. I don't know how many or percentages on the blacks and whites, but it's probably at least evenly divided just off the top of my head. I'd say that "trashy whites" have just as much trouble getting into good neighborhoods because they probably have bad credit.

No you're not. You'd refuse to believe proof if it was handed to you.

Did this study include poorer whites or just blacks and Hispanics who couldn't get loans?

About 10 years ago, I asked the 3 black students in my class if any of them had ever been pulled over for DWB. You know what DWB is, right? It's call 'Driving While Black' and refers in those incidents when blacks or hispanics are pulled over by police for not other reason than to be questioned... usually along the lines of "What business do you have in this (swanky) neighborhood" or "Who's (nice, expensive) car is this that you're driving?" They all lraised their hands, and were able to recount one or more incidents. So Sappho, when's the last time you were pulled over by the police just to be asked what you were doing in a certain neighborhood, or who owned the nice car you were driving?

How do you know they were being truthful? People do tend to exaggerate. All people do this.

Fact: Minority drivers are 3 times more likely to get searched. Whites are more likely to get a lighter sentence if arrested. On first time drug bust, with identical circumstances, blacks are 48 TIMES more likely to go to jail.

There are lots of blacks in law enforcement, so I'd want to see how many blacks pull over blacks, and Hispanics. They call this profiling, and I'd say it exists, but it can't be avoided in reality.

Police Officers nowadays have computers in their cars in many cases, or access to files on vehicles, so if something smells fishy it very well could be, plus with the darkened windows in vehicles how many times are the officers even able to see who they are apprehending till they roll down the window.

As far as the sentencing goes this is not right, and shouldn't happen, but how many are using court appointed attorney's opposed to hiring an attorney? Could be that the minorities don't want to pay for attorney's. This is just a guess, but if anybody recalls OJ was able to hire a super-duper legal team, and he got off of murder charges where there was considerable evidence against him. So sometimes you get what you pay for or don't.

In housing... -- Whites are offered more choices; 60%-90% of housing units shown to whites are not made available to blacks. -- 72.1% of whites own their own home opposed to 48.1% for African Americans -- 46% of whites had help from their family in making down payments on homes compared to 12% for African Americans

I'd want to know what their credit is like in comparison Could be there's bad credit in there somewhere. Some of that stuff has nothing to do with racism. Families helping is one. Maybe the families would rather see someone else lend their loved ones the money, and they don't want to take the risk.

And once again, you have absolutely no idea what hurdles Barack Obama had to overcome that his white peers didn't, so kindly stow the 'Bad Example' crap. Simply because something's harder doesn't mean it's insurmountable.

Barack is smart, so I'd venture to say the obstacles he had were minor. Smart people who are industrious usually do better than those that aren't. This goes for any race.

I've already included a few statistical tidbits above, but the most telling have been televised experiments in which a white man and a black man -each equipped with identical educations, work histories, financial histories, etc. - were sent out to rent an apartment, buy a car, apply for a loan, apply for a job. Unfortunately I can't find records, even though I can specifically recall seeing at least three such studies.

Stuff happens. This is life. I don't know what you are suggesting be done to change how people think and react. We've been crammed down the throat for quite a number of years about all of this, and much has improved. Where are the studies on the improvements? Where are the studies that show disrimination against whites? Negativity breeds negativity.

Although its effect on the race gap in housing transitions is small, we find strong evidence that black applicants are almost twice as likely as comparable white households to be rejected, even when credit history proxies and measures of household wealth are accounted for.

If this is in fact true then it's a travesty that needs to be rectified.

Except they aren't the "lowest of the low". Their 'White Privilege' kicks in when competing with blacks as low on the economic scale as they are. Suddenly, a dumb, ignorant, uneducated redneck becomes a bit more attractive than a dumb, ignorant, uneducated black.

Seems like they'd both have major problems getting what they are looking for. When I look at the homeless, I see a lot of white faces out there, so I'm not sure what the reason is for this, but this is probably one area where there's a lot of equality.

Ahh, the bliss of willful over-simplification. Sappho, no one is saying that racism hasn't been dramatically reduced, or that "white privilege" dominates every aspect of everday life. No one is going to hire a third-grade educated white redneck over a Harvard educated black. You're willfully oversimplifying what's being argued. What we're saying is that there's a good chance that, for example, a 3rd grade educated black man will likely get a harsher sentence for the exact same crime committed by a 3rd grade eucated white.

Our punishment/ prison system is very harsh, and needs revamping for all. Blacks definitely should be treated equally for equal crimes. I hear ya on this one.

Poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics greatly exceed the national average. In 2004, 24.7 percent of blacks and 21.9 percent of Hispanics were poor, compared to 8.6 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 9.8 percent of Asians."

I'd want to know why Asians are so much lower than the blacks and Hispanics. Something may be wrong with the way their culture has evolved. I know we aren't allowed to blame anybody for anything, but are some of these issues because there are so many out of wedlock kids born to blacks and Hispanics? Poverty breeds poverty, and many times crime is right in there.

White Trailer Trash may not have it all that well, but I suspect the real "lowest of the low" reside in other communities. Very good... you're catching on. Yes, there's a more than good chance that an ordinary, casually dressed, middle class black man going into... say... a store, will arouse more suspicion, and be presumed to be of lower class, than his white counterpart.

Suspicion yes, but lower class, I don't believe that part. I don't follow that line of thinking. If someone smiles at me I immediately think they are high class regardless of their attire, but I think blacks, and Hispanics actually dress better than whites a good bit of the time. They are more stylish on average.

Sappho, do you know who Jack Kemp is? He was a fiscally conservative Republican congressman who ran as Bob Dole's vice-Presidential running mate in 1996, against Bill Clinton. He was also probably the only Republican to support affirmative action. The reason why was that before going to Congress, he was the starting quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. He lived, worked and played with blacks day in and day out, and was absolutely horrified to witness on a daily basis, how highly talented athletes who were supposed to be highly esteemed heroes, and were his close friends, were constantly and shabbily treated by subtle and not so subtle racism.

Jack Kemp played ball a pretty good while ago and he probably did see racism, but there have been major changes since that time. That's the key word here, time, it takes time to change things that have been around a while. Change has to come as people get to know each other better, and start to trust. Trust is hard, but it can happen, and I think it's very close to being a done deal.

MHO is if Obama wins that's going to be a huge turning point for everybody. May not end everything, but mostly it will.

[SoylentGreen]

SapphoIf your country is suffering from white privilege, how did Rice get her high powered job and how did Obama come to be the most viable and popular candidate in your elections?

Take a look at your federal government. How many white politicians are there? How many non white? Take a look at the demographics of australia, how many white , how many non white.

Can you still say all the people are fairly represented or is there an imbalance between the two.

[SoylentGreen]

tivodan1116My point was that there are areas where whites are vastly underrepresented, areas that represent great opportunities to become wealthy and "privileged", yet no one is seeking to give whites affirmative action to get them into these areas.

I would say that this is where the point is been misrepresented.
You are using equality to say there must be an even amount of black and white players in order for them to be equally represented.
Which of course is ridiculous it shouldn't be that way it obviously doesn't work or help anyone.
The real question is about opportunity. That is where equality must be.
The question is are whites been given an opportunity to try for the team or is it that there is a presumption that white men can't jump.
If it is the former then so be it , at least no one can say they were not given the opportunity to try. If the latter then it is racism and something should be done about it.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Sappho I think the fact that I am asking questions and restating what you are telling me, to assess my learning, shows that i am trying to understand.

I believe that comment was directed at sockem who seems to think meaningless quips make him sound intelligent.

[SoylentGreen]

tivodan1116It's because this is how thinking is flawed: If whites are not represented in something, it's because of myriad factors, but never racism. If blacks are not represented, the ONLY possible, default explanation is "racism".

The idea that it is about racism, although in one sense is true in that there are racists out there, is never the less a red herring.
The whole idea behind AA is not because someone has a different colored skin after all when a group sit down to discuss something the dna or menolin in the skin makes no real difference.
It is about culture and the differences that cultures can bring to the table.
Take a random example , say turkish people. You know of them , read a bit about there culture. But if a problem existed involving turkish people would be a good idea for a bunch of white americans to sit down and sort it out or would it be better to call in a couple of turkish people to give their particular cultural knowledge .
In other words having different races involved lends more experiences and differing views to the pot which does make a difference.

[Rog]

Quote by: Diogenes It's not racism ( there's your lengthy justification ). The reason why 90% of players are black now ( they didn't used to be ) is because sports was one of the first very few opportunities available to them that they could get with a limited education at the time. .

Nope, the reason is because they are better, they are better in baseball, basketball, football(American) and some other sports...

[Diogenes]

Nope, the reason is because they are better, they are better in baseball, basketball, football(American) and some other sports...

that too.

[SoylentGreen]

tivodan1116Why does it mean I am well represented because the person in office has (relatively) the same skin color as me? In fact, I am not well represented. I am a libertarian living in a Republican Congressional district, in a state with 2 Democratic Senators and a Democratic governor, et cetera. Explain to me why my idiot Congressperson, whose views are diametrically opposed to me in almost every way, is "representative" of me because he is white.

And you make my point. The idea that it is about race is a red herring given out by racists to support there stance. Just as you a libertarian would feel better represented by someone who has the same culture, the same understanding of what it means to be a libertarian as you is what it is about.