White Privilege

[Sappho]

Well then you haven't heard the latest then. We have a Bipartisan Aboriginal Intervention in place in the outback at the moment, mainly to protect women and children for various abuses of the most horrible kind.

Parents have told that if they persist in not feeding their children or sending them to school they will have their welfare payments quarentined.

You should google via the australian news papers, since you are interested in them... makes for heart wrenching reading though... and still we are not so sure how to sure up their societies so that can have the kind of quality we westerners enjoy.

Many aboringinal womens groups however are happy for the increased police presence and other measures as they feel safer and better able to tackle the next stage.

Wish them luck... I know I do.

[Aussie]

Sappho, you've taken a very simplistic view of aboriginals there.

Did you know that the NT intervention actually would violate the Racial Discrimination Act had it not had a clause entered from exempting it? Do we not have a problem with white dole bludgers treating their children like crap? Why weren't their income support payments quarantined? And it's not just parents that dont send their kids to school, it's all aboriginals in the NT on income support who's payments are quarantined.

Also, aboriginals were not recognised as people until 1967 where under the referendum they were no longer consider 'flora and fauna'.

The problem is policies like the White Australia policy, stolen generations, etc have created the problems we faced today, and aboriginals are the collateral. There is a lot of hurt and angst, and remember, there's people still alive today that have lived through this.

[Sappho]

Aussie... I know all of this, and certainly, if I wanted to discuss Aboriginality in any depth, it would be, as i have done and continue to do, on an Australian forum where the people are more informed of the relevant issues.

I'm not actually in this thread to discuss aboriginals, who's issues are vastly different, as well you know, to those of black americans.

I'm here in this thread to find out more about attitudes to black americans and this strange concept of white privilage which is not something assumed or discussed in Australia beyond those few of the National Action/ White Supremacy orgs.

if you as an Aussie want to take about Aboriginality, then sure go ahead, but dont mind please if I focus my attentions on black americans and their issues of which I am somewhat ignorant and would like opinion to be presented to me.

Is that ok with you?

[Sappho]

PS: Don't forget too that we have had the National Apology for which the Aboriginals are truely thankful, as are the rest of us.... bout bloody time IMO.

And that's it. I'm here to learn about the Black American plight and this american perspective on white privilage.

[ironeagle]

There is no white priveledge in this country. It simply doesn't exist. To get past these open sores people need to stop blaming other races for their problems. It is one thing to agknowledge a past full of hate, opression and slavery but another to blame people who had/have nothing to do with black people's problems. If they have money issues it's their fault, if they have bad grades it's their fault, if they are poor it's maybe not their fault but it's certianly not mine or every white person's fault, if they have no land it's because they didn't buy any. I have recieved no privledges, exceptions or advances for being white, although I have seen many black people get free things because of their race, grants that some of them take for granted, and I have also seen them excuse their children's bad grades by saying it's because they are opressed that they didn't learn. Bull shizzle, too many black americans think that they are owed something from whitey, too many want to be like the rappers and dumb butts on t.v wearing pants with their butts hanging out, purposfully use the wrong speech even if they learned to speak english clearly and accuratley and want to laze around all day and wait for some white person to give them some money. Not in my backyard you don't. If you want respect from me you gotta earn it, if you want to be treated intelligently then act intelligent, if you want education, earn it and learn, and if you want people to think you are something better than a gangster then act like you are better. That goes for you white/rapper wannabe's too.

[SoylentGreen]

ironeagleThere is no white priveledge in this country.

But it is not about what you own or what you do or how you act. It is all about attitude. Both the blacks in america and the aboriginals in australia suffer from the same problem, albeit for different reasons , the problem of no recognition. No matter how successful a black person is they will still be treated by some as if they did not earn it.
The privileges here are not the material privileges of power and wealth or fame, it is the privilege of been seen as an equal.

[Dan_77]

Quote by: Jack That doesn't jibe with what I hear at McCain's rallies. Obama can't be trusted because he's a Muslim, he's an Arab, he hangs out with terrorists. As far as I know no one is claiming that all Democrats are Mulims, Arabs or hang with terrorists. Those sound to me more like racially motivated misconceptions.

No, they're motivated by his Arab/Muslim-sounding name, not by his race. Did you see any suggestions of terrorist or Arab connections during the various campaigns of Jesse Jackson? The SCOTUS nomination of Clarence Thomas? Colin Powell? Condelezza Rice?

Quote by: Sappho How does the concept of 'White Trailer Trash' fit into this concept of White Privilege?

It doesn't, it belies the concept, which is why rich white liberals ignore it.

Really, we have reached a point where the pendulum has swung the other direction and there now exists minority privilege. It can be seen in the fact that virtually every college in the US as well as almost every company with more than 100 employees has a "diversity" program which is tailor-made to recruit and retain "minorities" on the basis of their skin color with no meaningful attempt to separate privileged minorities from underprivileged ones.

It can also be seen in the many areas of life where "minorities" and other so-called "disadvantaged" groups like women are blatantly given a pass on certain types of behavior that, when perpetuated by white males, result in protests and calls for punishment. Case in point - media personalities. Opie & Anthony are suspended from a supposedly "uncensored" radio show on a private network for allowing a homeless "guest" to merely discuss r*ping Condelezza Rice, Imus is fired for using the phrase "nappy-headed hoes", while black media personalities and celebrities continue to use racial language much worse on a daily basis in reference to both themselves and other races.

Meanwhile, every television show or commercial portrays white males as stupid, boorish, and generally foolhardy. These same shows portray minorities as insightful and funny, women as intelligent and capable, and even gays as stylish or sexy.

There's a double standard, and it favors minorities.

Quote by: SoylentGreen The privileges here are not the material privileges of power and wealth or fame, it is the privilege of been seen as an equal.

Equality is not what they seek, otherwise they would not vehemently oppose the end of Affirmative Action, which prevents them from being seen as equal because it holds as its basic tenet that they are not and therefore need "help".

[SoylentGreen]

tivodan1116Equality is not what they seek, otherwise they would not vehemently oppose the end of Affirmative Action, which prevents them from being seen as equal because it holds as its basic tenet that they are not and therefore need "help".

It is the mistake of most people to assume that AA is about creating equality , in that everyone should be equal. That is not so. The philosophy is that there should be equal opportunity for all. Thus when an organisation headed only by white males seek to keep the advantage only to white males then it should be fought against.
However i do agree that AA has been abused in america and there is evidence for that. But that is not the fault of the idea behind AA it is the fault of those who abuse the system.

[Diogenes]

It is the mistake of most people to assume that AA is about creating equality

I have to agree...AA is not about equality...never has been...it is about African Americans being prevented for centuries from opportunities that would normally be afforded to them if they were not black...

it is about demographics.

Eg. if the population of African Americans is 8% of the population then they should be represented as such across the board...8% of the CEO's should be African Americans, 8% of the University professors should be African American...8% of the Teachers, Lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, Nurses, etc...should be African American...

because most were held back and were not afforded the opportunity to get a higher education and those that managed to get an education were kept out of positions they would have held had they been white...

that until they are demographically represented they deserve special placement or opportunity.

[shawmutt]

I'm not sure, as a white man, I can objectively talk about "white privilege", because I personally just don't get it. I've seen successful white people, and successful black people, (and successful Hispanics too, but I'll stick to black and white for simplicity) and to me they all act the same. They have the same mannerisms, almost the same accents. Black people call it "acting white", white people call it "acting elite".

I've seen unsuccessful folks in either color as well, and they all act the same, albeit with different dialects--rednecks and niggers. Both groups seem to have a disdain for learning, and they hate anyone that tries to learn. I was a booky as a kid, and got into more than a few fights because I was sitting there reading--that hate seemed to transcend color. I felt bad for the geeks in high school, they were picked on on a regular basis just because of their grades, again it didn't matter what color they were.

I have no doubt that my view is subjective. There are probably still places in this country where an equally educated black man has a harder time than a white man. Churches still remain the most segregated places in our nation. However, I've worked alongside black people all my life, doing the same work, getting the same pay. In my 16 years of working, I have noticed the differences between the successful man and the unsuccessful man, regardless of color.

that until they are demographically represented they deserve special placement or opportunity.

I think folks should be represented on their merit, not on a quota. Is Affirmative Action supposed to be the "good racism"?

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Sappho And that's it. I'm here to learn about the Black American plight and this american perspective on white privilage.

Given your discussion on Ozzie Aboriginals, I'm rather dumbfounded that the concept of white privilege is beyond you. What confuses you about poor white trash who tell themselves that, while things may be bad, "At least I'm not black" ?

It's about class AND race, the presumption being that being of a certain race automatically determines your class... even if it actually doesn't.

Jack provided several examples:

You're a store owner... in walks a working class white woman. Customer.

In walks a working class black woman. Possible shoplifter.

You see a car full of white teenagers. High school kids.

You see a car full of black teenagers. A gang.

People are making a PRESUMPTION of class based on race.

Quote by: Sappho I'm from Melbourne, a european styled city which revels in its multiculturalism.

Yeah, and...? Are you making the same declaration as some here, that since YOU'RE not guilty of it, it therefore either doesn't exist or it's not your problem?

Quote by: tivodan No, they're motivated by his Arab/Muslim-sounding name, not by his race.

Don't kid yourself, Tivo. It's race.

Americans see Arabs as a different race, and Obama's ethnically ambiguous appearance only lends to the belief that he could be an Arab Muslim.

Or even worse, a Louis Farrakhan Black Muslim.

If Obama were clearly white... blonde hair, etc. ...no one would care if his name were Obama.

.

[Diogenes]

I think folks should be represented on their merit, not on a quota.

And black people agree...once they are represented as they should be...the problem is without raising their demographic in areas where it would normally be had they been white and not enslaved or held back they are left having to overcome an obstacle that could take another 200 years to overcome naturally without affirmative action.

And they don't want to wait that long...and I wouldn't either.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Son If Obama were clearly white... blonde hair, etc. ...no one would care if his name were Obama.

And if Obama were a normal black man not running for president, Republicans wouldn't care that he's black. Their problem is with Democrats; not minorities.

Quote by: Dio And black people agree...once they are represented as they should be...the problem is without raising their demographic in areas where it would normally be had they been white and not enslaved or held back they are left having to overcome an obstacle that could take another 200 years to overcome naturally without affirmative action.

Plenty of white people have been held back in life by circumstances outside of their control. Why don't they deserve special treatment as well?

[Diogenes]

Plenty of white people have been held back in life by circumstances outside of their control. Why don't they deserve special treatment as well?

Absolutely...but as I said it's about demographics...white people are already well represented...if, for instance white people were 80% of the population but only had 40% representation then yes affirmative action should apply to them too.

[shawmutt]

Quote by: Diogenes And black people agree...once they are represented as they should be...the problem is without raising their demographic in areas where it would normally be had they been white and not enslaved or held back they are left having to overcome an obstacle that could take another 200 years to overcome naturally without affirmative action.

You mean like Africa? Who makes up the judge and jury to tell where they "normally would be"?

[Diogenes]

Who makes up the judge and jury to tell where they "normally would be"?

Demographics.

[shawmutt]

Well, that's where we'll have to disagree. You want to use racism to meet a quota. I want to see the best and brightest in positions regardless of race.

[Diogenes]

Well, that's where we'll have to disagree. You want to use racism to meet a quota. I want to see the best and brightest in positions regardless of race.

We do not disagree...I want to see the best and brightest in positions regardless of race too...however the reality is more complicated than that.

In a Utopian World...we would only have the best where they rightfully belong...everyone would have the same opportunity...the same rights and privileges...

but...we don't live in Utopia.

The fact is black people were deprived of an education, deprived of opportunities, deprived of advancements...doesn't sound much like the Utopian World you describe does it.

So...Affirmative Action...was to guarantee blacks an education, guarantee that they would be given opportunity...guarantee that they would not be held back from advancement...

no one is saying take an unqualified Doctor and put him in surgery.

I wish we lived in a world where the pursuit of truth was considered more valuable than the pursuit of money...but we do not live in that world...

we live in this world.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Dio Absolutely...but as I said it's about demographics...white people are already well represented...if, for instance white people were 80% of the population but only had 40% representation then yes affirmative action should apply to them too.

Why is it so important to have a race "represented"? I was always under the impression that skin colour doesn't matter.

[Jack]

Quote by: Diogenes We do not disagree...I want to see the best and brightest in positions regardless of race too...however the reality is more complicated than that. In a Utopian World...we would only have the best where they rightfully belong...everyone would have the same opportunity...the same rights and privileges... but...we don't live in Utopia. The fact is black people were deprived of an education, deprived of opportunities, deprived of advancements...doesn't sound much like the Utopian World you describe does it. So...Affirmative Action...was to guarantee blacks an education, guarantee that they would be given opportunity...guarantee that they would not be held back from advancement... no one is saying take an unqualified Doctor and put him in surgery. I wish we lived in a world where the pursuit of truth was considered more valuable than the pursuit of money...but we do not live in that world... we live in this world.

I agree. I wonder sometimes how many potential Einsteins, for instance, that haven't been able to exploit their intelligence because they weren't encouraged or educated.