Size Acceptance

[big_lefty]

What do you think of the size acceptance movement?

I believe they have a legitimate cause for complaint in the areas of job discrimination and the social stigma attached to being obese.

However, some of their other claims are nonsense. One of the most common ones is that diets do not work. Indeed, most dieters do not succeed, but the reason for this is not because it is impossible to lose weight. The reason is because the dieters do not adhere to the program strictly enough or for long enough and they fail to include enough physical activity. A properly designed, sensible diet, if strictly followed and combined with frequent and sufficiently vigorous activity, will induce weight loss in all but the most extreme cases of endocrine disorders, such as hypothyroidism and polycystic ovary syndrome.

Often, size acceptance people will even try to deny the health risks of obesity, which are inarguable.
It would seem to me that if they, themselves, were truly comfortable with their size, they would not need to be dishonest. They would not need excuses about diets being inherently useless and the health risks of obesity being overblown. So they are expecting society to accept that which they cannot even accept themselves.

I feel that a revulsion towards obesity is natural, since the sight of a body in such an unhealthy state makes people uncomfortable. We feel the same way when we see an unhealthily thin person or somebody with an obvious illness. This does not mean one hates fat people.
So, while I think it's foolish to expect people to ever accept obesity as normal and desirable, this does not excuse discrimination or cruelty towards the obese.

[Jack]

My grandmother, mother and niece were/are obese, while I've always been rather thin (I weighed 140# well into my 40s). I was/am a witness to the health problems caused by being overweight. My grandmother and mother died from the effects of their obesity, and my niece is having to deal with diabetes.

I wouldn't say I feel revulsion at the sight of an obese person. I do feel sad and concerned. It's particularly to see so many fat, overweight children.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Jack My grandmother, mother and niece were/are obese, while I've always been rather thin (I weighed 140# well into my 40s). I was/am a witness to the health problems caused by being overweight. My grandmother and mother died from the effects of their obesity, and my niece is having to deal with diabetes. I wouldn't say I feel revulsion at the sight of an obese person. I do feel sad and concerned. It's particularly to see so many fat, overweight children.

It's terrible too see somebody you love destroy her/his health like that. :-(

This is the reason why the notion of fat acceptance does not sit well with me. We should not accept something so dangerous. I accept the humanity and equality of a fat person, but I do not accept his or her choice to remain obese as justifiable.

[Jack]

I'm not sure where this current "fear of offense" attitude came from but it's quite often a royal pain in the ass. Some call it Political Correctness, but it's being applied with wild abandon to the point where it's becoming absurd. It's beyond the political; it's invaded the courts, the workplace, even our homes.

I endorse complete toleration when the topic is a physical component of a person they were born with/inherited. I practice selective toleration when it comes to character, the part of a person for which they are largely responsible. I know this makes me vulnerable to being the subject of the selective toleration of others. That's OK. I am subject to my own standards.

Toleration also isn't permission to carry on with what you're doing. Just because I'm tolerant of the obese doesn't imply I think they should embrace their condition, celebrate it or not at least try to improve their health. Fat is unhealthy. There's no upside. Even smoking has an upside. Drinking beer has an upside. There's no upside to being fat. There's also no upside to being anorexic.

It's up to the individual to want to improve their health, you can't force them to do that. We don't need to spend more money each year making everyday life totally convenient for those suffering from the results of bad decisions. It's getting to where there are too many people in too small a space to accommodate everyone's personality. Being poor is still a greater challenge to face than weight.

If you are obese, until you start to change that, there are ways to dress and carry yourself that de-emphasize your weight. But you can't disguise the damage you're doing to your health.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Jack I'm not sure where this current "fear of offense" attitude came from but it's quite often a royal pain in the ass. Some call it Political Correctness, but it's being applied with wild abandon to the point where it's becoming absurd. It's beyond the political; it's invaded the courts, the workplace, even our homes. I endorse complete toleration when the topic is a physical component of a person they were born with/inherited. I practice selective toleration when it comes to character, the part of a person for which they are largely responsible. I know this makes me vulnerable to being the subject of the selective toleration of others. That's OK. I am subject to my own standards. Toleration also isn't permission to carry on with what you're doing. Just because I'm tolerant of the obese doesn't imply I think they should embrace their condition, celebrate it or not at least try to improve their health. Fat is unhealthy. There's no upside. Even smoking has an upside. Drinking beer has an upside. There's no upside to being fat. There's also no upside to being anorexic. It's up to the individual to want to improve their health, you can't force them to do that. We don't need to spend more money each year making everyday life totally convenient for those suffering from the results of bad decisions. It's getting to where there are too many people in too small a space to accommodate everyone's personality. Being poor is still a greater challenge to face than weight. If you are obese, until you start to change that, there are ways to dress and carry yourself that de-emphasize your weight. But you can't disguise the damage you're doing to your health.

I agree with and admire your stance. However, I'm not sure I can be fully tolerant of everything that is inborn/inherited. What if, for example, pedophilia (the attraction to children itself, not criminal acts which might arise from it) is inborn, completely brain-based and involuntary? It would not make me any more empathetic towards people with such a sexual preference. I'd like to be a big enough person to say knowing someone had that preference would not influence how I felt about him as a person, but that would be a lie.
I know you were talking about being 100% tolerant of inborn physical characteristics, and I feel the same, but what about personality traits which are inborn? Should these be tolerated simply because they are involuntary? What if a fat person is fat because of a weakness to temptation which is an inherited personality trait?
I'm asking you because I haven't decided myself, and I'm hoping you have an answer I can use to make my decision.

[Clarence]

obesity is related to unhappiness

[Clarence]

but not in all or even most cases. not to generalize of course

[ironeagle]

There is valid reason to associate female obesity with the contriceptive shot Depro-Provera, which the FDA refuses to admitt causes sever weight gain, retention of weight gain and ultematley can cause diabetis. I have watched my best friend suffer from it, although the makers of the drug and powers that be refuse to admit it is dangerous. When a person gets the shot it not only messes with their fertility it also messes with their hormones and chromazones. I have seen many friends who were normal sized ballon up and even look almost swollen after the drug was shot into their system. Incuding my sister, whom I warned about the drug. In all the cases none of the girls could get rid of the weight no matter what they did. My best friend now has diabetis, her problem was so strange they tested her thyroid because no matter what she did the wieght never left. It is a dangerous drug, which is the reason I stay away from hormone altering drugs.after explaining the danger to my sister she removed herself from getting the shot again, afterwards she has gone back t her normal size. Keeping in mind my sisters and my average wieght was around 120 lbs since our teenage years, we have a genetic high metabolism, and my sister is an avid Martial Artist, who taught classes and eat very healthy. Other than that I agree that people who are obese from eatng unhealthy or eating too much do tend to excuse themselves, and lie to themselves about being unhealthy.

[Jack]

However, I'm not sure I can be fully tolerant of everything that is inborn/inherited.

Part of a person's character is how well they deal with their inclinations, urges and desires. I can respect a person who has socially unacceptable desires but can resist acting on them.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: ironeagle There is valid reason to associate female obesity with the contriceptive shot Depro-Provera, which the FDA refuses to admitt causes sever weight gain, retention of weight gain and ultematley can cause diabetis. I have watched my best friend suffer from it, although the makers of the drug and powers that be refuse to admit it is dangerous. When a person gets the shot it not only messes with their fertility it also messes with their hormones and chromazones. I have seen many friends who were normal sized ballon up and even look almost swollen after the drug was shot into their system. Incuding my sister, whom I warned about the drug. In all the cases none of the girls could get rid of the weight no matter what they did. My best friend now has diabetis, her problem was so strange they tested her thyroid because no matter what she did the wieght never left. It is a dangerous drug, which is the reason I stay away from hormone altering drugs.after explaining the danger to my sister she removed herself from getting the shot again, afterwards she has gone back t her normal size. Keeping in mind my sisters and my average wieght was around 120 lbs since our teenage years, we have a genetic high metabolism, and my sister is an avid Martial Artist, who taught classes and eat very healthy. Other than that I agree that people who are obese from eatng unhealthy or eating too much do tend to excuse themselves, and lie to themselves about being unhealthy.

The same is true of the pill, to a lesser degree. They are dangerous drugs which I would never take.

Guys, get used to using condoms if you care about your wives. The only side-effect is you last longer, and that's a good thing.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Jack Part of a person's character is how well they deal with their inclinations, urges and desires. I can respect a person who has socially unacceptable desires but can resist acting on them.

Good answer. I'm not sure I could respect the person, as in the case of the pedophile. But I have two daughters so I'll forgive myself.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Clarence obesity is related to unhappiness

Could be a chicken or egg question. Are they unhappy because they are obese or are they obese because they are unhappy?
Probably both.

[Clarence]

well yeah there's viscous cycles and stuff but..I think good people manage to live happy lives even if they had some sort of predisposition for energy storage in the form of fats and water. They were just made for a different diet than the ones our civilization has developed. There's usually a lifestyle change involved with the treatment of obesity, no?

[Thanatos]

Obesity can be genetic. My mom is as fat as a whale and its no fault of hers. I see how much she eats and how much exercise she gets and by rights she should be a walking skeleton; to lose weight she has to eat like 250 calories a day. I'm not even sure if that's supposed to be medically possible.

However most extremely fat people do not have bizarre metabolic mutations (or even psychiatric disorders) and are simply enormous...insert descriptive adjective or noun here. If you want to occupy your seat and mine on an airplane I'm staying put.

[Gods_Mercenary]

However, some of their other claims are nonsense. One of the most common ones is that diets do not work. Indeed, most dieters do not succeed, but the reason for this is not because it is impossible to lose weight. The reason is because the dieters do not adhere to the program strictly enough or for long enough and they fail to include enough physical activity. A properly designed, sensible diet, if strictly followed and combined with frequent and sufficiently vigorous activity, will induce weight loss in all but the most extreme cases of endocrine disorders, such as hypothyroidism and polycystic ovary syndrome.

If I eat as much as I'm inclined and don't follow an aerobic/cardio routine I can gain weight very quickly, but generally I can also lose weight extremely fast if I work out and cut my eating. My personality allows me to become "addicted" to a workout routine and stay away from too much food when I get in the mood (mainly when I realize the belly has stopped being separate from the love-handles). because of this I generally don't understand people who can't selectively control their weight, at least until they become older. Then again, time and stress are a great factor in getting excerscize and in eating habits. Then again, if you have more than some rolls and are getting on your fifth chin and are truly getting obese rather than just overweight, given that they have surgeries and whatever else, it's better for your health to lose the weight.

[Rog]

One thing is acceptance, the other is accommodation.
I am not going to condemn a business for not hiring a obese person.

[Gods_Mercenary]

given the cost in health insurance, potential sick leave, and other factors, I could certainly understand where a manager would not hire a very obese person.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Clarence well yeah there's viscous cycles and stuff but..I think good people manage to live happy lives even if they had some sort of predisposition for energy storage in the form of fats and water. They were just made for a different diet than the ones our civilization has developed. There's usually a lifestyle change involved with the treatment of obesity, no?

Yes, lifestyle change is usually needed to sustain a weight loss. I agree that lots of overweight people are perfectly content. I don't, however, believe it's possible to be morbidly obese and content with it. It causes too much physical discomfort.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Thanatos Obesity can be genetic. My mom is as fat as a whale and its no fault of hers. I see how much she eats and how much exercise she gets and by rights she should be a walking skeleton; to lose weight she has to eat like 250 calories a day. I'm not even sure if that's supposed to be medically possible. However most extremely fat people do not have bizarre metabolic mutations (or even psychiatric disorders) and are simply enormous...insert descriptive adjective or noun here. If you want to occupy your seat and mine on an airplane I'm staying put.

Yep, the tendency to gain weight easily is genetic. But it has to be activated by lifestyle. One can compensate for genetics by adjusting carloic intake and physical activity accordingly.

Your mother may have a thyroid problem or something, because what you describe is way beyond the bounds of a genetic tendency.

[big_lefty]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary If I eat as much as I'm inclined and don't follow an aerobic/cardio routine I can gain weight very quickly, but generally I can also lose weight extremely fast if I work out and cut my eating. My personality allows me to become "addicted" to a workout routine and stay away from too much food when I get in the mood (mainly when I realize the belly has stopped being separate from the love-handles). because of this I generally don't understand people who can't selectively control their weight, at least until they become older. Then again, time and stress are a great factor in getting excerscize and in eating habits. Then again, if you have more than some rolls and are getting on your fifth chin and are truly getting obese rather than just overweight, given that they have surgeries and whatever else, it's better for your health to lose the weight.

Yeah, I have to work out a lot and watch my diet in order to stay slender, too, now that I'm in my forties. Metabolism slows down with age.