Opinions about Raising boys without a father

[SisterTwisted]

I have done this for 17 years now. And I tell you, it sucks lol. It isnt by choice. Their "dad" lives in FL and we live in IL. He doesnt see them but once every five years, his mother (grandmother) has nothing at all to do with them.
What would posess someone to do this to their own sons? Money? HA I havent seen a dime untill someone did me a favor and disabled him. Now we get alot per month.
This has gone on from the time they were born. I think they had one year with him. ......
I dont care, but it has hurt my sons. They are deeply wounded by the one who made them. What is this man thinking?
Why does one abandon their children? Please enlighten me.

[ironeagle]

Many selfish reasons I suppose. I could never abandon my children. Does the father want visitation? Does the father have equal custody? Did the father move away from the children? These are questiones that need to be answered before a final opinion can be given. As an activist for non custodial parents I can tell you that millions of fathers want nothing more than time with their children. Many cases are different and include different circumstances and facts, but in a great majority of cases all around the world, the fathers are being systematically separated from their children, by the state, federal government, and the custodial parent. It is always a shame when children cannot enjoy the love and care of both biological parents throughout their entire lives. I think they do loose a part of themselves. As for the fathers who leave by choice, shame on them.

[LtMisha]

If I had kids, I would never leave them. My condolances that their father never sees his kids, SisterTwisted.

But no, in my humble opinion, those who leave by choice should be ashamed of themselves. Families should try to stick together for the benefits of the kids. A few of the one-0parent family kids in my old school were absolute nightmares, and as far as I know, still are. Then again, if the father is a drunken slob who abuses both kids and wife, then perhaps it is time for state intervention.

Then again, a lot of the time, it is the mother that causes separations, and then wins a lot of the stuff in the divorce hearing. I find men are demonized in those things.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I would imagine a father is very important for a boy growing up, though it might not be noticed until, like you have seen, they are absent. Especially as they get older, I think males will be best served by a father figure who can lay down the law and be modeled on.

[SoylentGreen]

Gods_MercenaryI think males will be best served by a father figure who can lay down the law and be modeled on.

Is that the role of the father then? To be the enforcer.
Why can't the mother lay down the law, why do children always have to be in fear of the words "wait till your dad gets home".
Shouldn't both parents have an equal opportunity to set the roles and guidelines for the children.

[Maryjane]

have done this for 17 years now. And I tell you, it sucks lol. It isnt by choice. Their "dad" lives in FL and we live in IL. He doesnt see them but once every five years, his mother (grandmother) has nothing at all to do with them.

That's where I stopped reading. I'm not a single parent..I'm a SOLO parent.


Excuse me..but it IS by choice. I didn't get a choice...my husband died. (medical malpractice) The only comforting thing I can say about my situation is that my husband didn't willingly leave my sons. They don't carry abandonment baggage or have to contend with the "fix and show game" bitter divorced people love to play at their child's expense.

Why does one abandon their children? Please enlighten me.

Because they are immature, irresponsible, selfish, and have no priorities.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Is that the role of the father then? To be the enforcer. Why can't the mother lay down the law, why do children always have to be in fear of the words "wait till your dad gets home". Shouldn't both parents have an equal opportunity to set the roles and guidelines for the children.

No reason a mother can't lay down the law, but many are not so inclined, and many boys as they age will scoff at any woman trying to. Not that most would ever dream of being physical with their mother, but there is a certain way in which many males are inclined to think of a man being able to back up his words more than a mother figure. Take a female boss who is constantly called a bitch while a male in the same setting wouldn't be.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Why does one abandon their children? Please enlighten me.

If, as you seem to imply, the father wasn't exactly an economic powerhouse, it could very well be because of the deep seated insecurity men feel about providing for their family. Why when men feel unable to provide they would rather irresponsibly cut their losses than at least being their, I can't say.

[SoylentGreen]

Gods_Mercenary;]No reason a mother can't lay down the law, but many are not so inclined, and many boys as they age will scoff at any woman trying to.

Now I understand why chauvinism is so prevalent in american society.

Not that most would ever dream of being physical with their mother, but there is a certain way in which many males are inclined to think of a man being able to back up his words more than a mother figure.

When a child reaches that age , then there should be no necessity to back up your words. And really I don't believe there is the necessity to back up words at any age.

Take a female boss who is constantly called a bitch while a male in the same setting wouldn't be.

No, he would be called a Dick.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary No reason a mother can't lay down the law, but many are not so inclined, and many boys as they age will scoff at any woman trying to. Not that most would ever dream of being physical with their mother, but there is a certain way in which many males are inclined to think of a man being able to back up his words more than a mother figure.

And thsi attitude is strengthed not only by the churches, but by society. Granted, parents shouldn't be trying to "rule with an iron fist," but, in any case, it's generally argued that "man should be head of household." It reminds me of Jello Biafra's description of "The Promise Keepers": "Me Tarzan, you Jane in Nuremburg rally glitz." My point is, as dramatic as it sounds, that this is significantly about the historical exploitation and oppression of one sex by the other.

Grandpa h.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Now I understand why chauvinism is so prevalent in american society.

Perhaps, I know I certainly could see my mother as a authority figure, but she generally had to try harder than my father.

When a child reaches that age , then there should be no necessity to back up your words. And really I don't believe there is the necessity to back up words at any age.

If you threaten to ground a kid, and don't, what do you think will happen?

No, he would be called a Dick.

Not necessarily if he is seen as competent, many men's chauvinism prevents them from seeing the woman's qualifications for being above them.

[SoylentGreen]

grandpaMy point is that, as dramatic as it probably sounds, this is significantly about the historical exploitation and oppression of one sex by the other.

I totally agree. It is a role model that oppresses both sexes.

[grandpa]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I totally agree. It is a role model that oppresses both sexes.

Ultimately, yes it does. Really, though, parents of either sex should learn how to deal with feelings of anger, rage, sadness, worthlessness, etc., and pass these techniques onto their children.

Grandpa h.

[SoylentGreen]

Gods_Mercenary;Perhaps, I know I certainly could see my mother as a authority figure, but she generally had to try harder than my father.

Possibly because she gave over her right to be an authority figure and did use the male as the "boogeyman".

If you threaten to ground a kid, and don't, what do you think will happen?

Then it's best not to threaten kids. Teach them to negotiate, after all that is how they will best deal with adults once they become adults.

Not necessarily if he is seen as competent, many men's chauvinism prevents them from seeing the woman's qualifications for being above them

Sounds like the men there have real insecurity problems.

[KNOW:ONE]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Then it's best not to threaten kids. Teach them to negotiate, after all that is how they will best deal with adults once they become adults.

Now that just doesn't make any kinda of sense. Children don't have the emotional acuity or the self restraint to be allowed to "negotiate" with adults for anything--especially if the particular child is of above average intelligence level. This is a surefire way to mold yourself a future sociopath. To teach a child to do mental battle with an adult, and then allow them sufficient time to become practiced and even confident in their craft is irresponsible. They have all the time in their adult lives to become manipulative, lying, self serving, A%@holes. Why start them out early?

[Matt]

A little off topic, but...

Quote by: SoylentGreen Then it's best not to threaten kids. Teach them to negotiate, after all that is how they will best deal with adults once they become adults.

Great point. I agree with you. Negotiating is good, and it is more fair. The child doesn't feel like she or he has no say and learns to talk to adults and learn those skills.

Quote by: KNOW:ONE Now that just doesn't make any kinda of sense. Children don't have the emotional acuity or the self restraint to be allowed to "negotiate" with adults for anything--especially if the particular child is of above average intelligence level. This is a surefire way to mold yourself a future sociopath. To teach a child to do mental battle with an adult, and then allow them sufficient time to become practiced and even confident in their craft is irresponsible. They have all the time in their adult lives to become manipulative, lying, self serving, A%@holes. Why start them out early?

Sure, we don't yet have fully developed brains, but it doesn't mean we don't deserve the right to negotiate with our parents. Just because some mental handicapped person can't talk well, does it mean they don't have the to go to the grocery store? No, it doesn't.

By discussing things with their parents, they learn how to talk to adults earlier on in their life and not just look at their feet when an adult talks.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Possibly because she gave over her right to be an authority figure and did use the male as the "boogeyman". Then it's best not to threaten kids. Teach them to negotiate, after all that is how they will best deal with adults once they become adults.

Wait till your father gets home was rarely heard in my house, it's just difficult for a mother who not only spends most of the day being caring and being motherly towards their children to transform into a disciplinarian on a dime, whereas my father, a big guy with a gruff voice when needed never had that problem.

Depending on how old a child is, they are incapable of negotiating, and at any rate there should be some points that are non-negotiable, just like real life.

Quote by: SoylentGreen Sounds like the men there have real insecurity problems.

Maybe, but then again, male insecurity is a driving force in human interaction.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Then it's best not to threaten kids. Teach them to negotiate, after all that is how they will best deal with adults once they become adults.

I'll tell you what... I'll give you my three-year-old for a weekend and you can "negotiate" with him. You'll be back here editing this post in 30 minutes.

One does not "negotiate" with children. You start by controlling everything in their life, and gradually release control (and allow them to make their own choices) on a piecemeal basis as they gain maturity.

My son gets to choose what shirt he wears out of a selection of three or four that I lay out for him. Other small decisions like that are appropriate at his age. If he wants to wear something that will not work with the weather or the occasion, I say "no". There is no "negotiating".

[SoylentGreen]

KNOW:ONEThey have all the time in their adult lives to become manipulative, lying, self serving, A%@holes. Why start them out early?

If that is what you consider negotiating you have a lot to learn.

Gods_Mercenary it's just difficult for a mother who not only spends most of the day being caring and being motherly towards their children to transform into a disciplinarian on a dime, whereas my father, a big guy with a gruff voice when needed never had that problem.

Being caring does not mean not being authoritative. A mother can discipline and control as well as a father.

Depending on how old a child is, they are incapable of negotiating, and at any rate there should be some points that are non-negotiable, just like real life.

Of course but many points are. Just laying down the rules does not teach a child to self discipline. Negotiating teaches the quid pro quo principle. If they want something then they need to give something.

Maybe, but then again, male insecurity is a driving force in human interaction.

I think in a way you have answered ST 's question. If boys are not raised to respect the authority of the mother and men do not respect the authority of a woman then it carries on into the marriage and men will not respect their wives.

tivodan1116One does not "negotiate" with children. You start by controlling everything in their life, and gradually release control (and allow them to make their own choices) on a piecemeal basis as they gain maturity.

That is true. It is very much age dependent. As the child grows they have to be able to learn that it is their life and that they must make the decisions.
I started out the same with my kids . Gave them a choice but limited the choice. Now I find that the choices they are making on their own are good ones.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Being caring does not mean not being authoritative. A mother can discipline and control as well as a father.

Of course, it just generally requires more effort, at any rate, being a single parent of either gender is not the perfect situation, but often the lesser of evils. In the case of boys, and I'd imagine girls as well, having a ready made father figure is highly advantageous, though probably in different ways.