Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

bugsbunny04 · Jul 27, 2004, 08:40 pm

Okay, first of all, I only consider abortion a womans right to choose if she is raped and does not know at first, or is raped in seclusion, or denied proper medical treatment, where pregnancy would be prevented. In all other cases, abortion is not the right to choose, but to change her mind. She has already made her choice, she chose to open her legs and let somebody without a condom on let his rooster crow in her hen. They are changing their mind at the expense of a human life, very selfish. Dont get me wrong, if he is going to be retarded or disabled, that is called euthanasia. If he is going to be healthy, however, it is simply murder.

Now for the shirt: :( And thats all I have to say to anybody I see wearing it.

And yes, PRH, kids do like sex, I liked the whole prom dress deal. I just hope my daughter is a lesbian in high school. I know a few, none of them have had an abortion (I wonder why

)

Gorgo · Jul 27, 2004, 10:16 pm

A raise in what?

Abortion is a medical procedure. All medical procedures have a risk. I would not choose this type of medical procedure as a first line of defense against pregnancy. I would consider it a reasonable alternative to bringing an unwanted child into the world, especially for a 15-year-old girl.

Definitely.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,
Abortion is escaping responsibility by murder.

So Gorgo, if your 15 year old daughter, came to you and said "Dad, I got pregnant, but I had an abortion!" You would give her a raise and tell her what a good girl shes been?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 27, 2004, 10:24 pm

The whole.. killing a human life for convience thing doesn't bug you? Okay...

I believe in the old saying, you made your bed, now lie in it school of thought.

Zeebadee · Jul 27, 2004, 11:46 pm

Ah yes, Mr. V, with his divine knowledge knows when Life begins. And, of course, not satisfied with deciding that for himself, he's perfectly willing to decide it for everyone.

Jul 28, 2004, 12:01 am

prettyredhead,

Whatever pain you have been through and/or witnessed, I think most of the people on this board would be supportive.

Seeker_Of_Sins · Jul 28, 2004, 12:40 am

Abortion is a permanent answer to a long term problem. Unwanted children lead to unloved children which in turn lead to problem children. Abortion should be supported rather than abused. For all you abortion protestors out there, piss off and get a life and stop bothering people who are making an emotional decision in a logical fashion.

Your continual bombardment of abuse directed at woman choosing abortion and supporters of abortion shows you to be the cold hearted brutal do as I say, not as I do, type of people that I have come to truelly despise.

Gorgo · Jul 28, 2004, 07:09 am

I have children and granchildren and have dealt with this subject directly. Have you? Do you even understand the consequences of your ridiculous beliefs?

Show me that you give a shit about those that are born and then you can start to tell me how smart you are that you know how to run women's lives.

Give a shit about the lives of the women whose children have died because of murderers like the Bushes and the Clintons. Cheer while these people murder the chances of life in other countries and parts of this one and then tell me how brilliant you are and capable you are to run my daughter's life.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,
The whole.. killing a human life for convience thing doesn't bug you? Okay...

I believe in the old saying, you made your bed, now lie in it school of thought.

waterfalllife · Jul 28, 2004, 08:25 am

The day the government decides whats best for the welfare of my loved one or daughter will be the day I move to Canada. Abortion is not a long term solution to a short term problem. I know 3 girls in my former high school that decided to have the kids when we were still classmates. They had it all going for them, straight A students, scholarships to some of the finest schools in America, and even promising career aspirations. Now all that is down the drain. Its not some thing that a person should have to stop what she is doing just to care for a child that will not grow up with as much care and wisdom as parents who wait to have kids and raise them correctly.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 28, 2004, 08:43 am

Life, human life means something to me. Responsibility for bringing life into this world MEANS something to me. I am saddened that so many here on this board see children as nothing more then a bother, a problem easily fixed by a trip to the doctors office like that makes the world all good and well.

The real solution to unwanted pregnancy is... don't have sex till you are married and in a position to deal with such consequences like.. pregnancy. I know that is going to sound closed minded and old fashioned.. but its true. Waiting to have sex till you are married and in a position to deal with a child should you get pregnant, or impregnate, may not be fun, may not be cool... buts the best response especially to the "starving homeless unwanted" kids line.

Samildanach · Jul 28, 2004, 09:31 am

That solution is never going to happen in todays world, you have to at least be realistic. Murder is murder I agree with you there. But the fact is the law recognises the fact that abortion is a necessity to have in todays society. Its more about a choice more than anything else....one that you or your daughter or your gf or whatever would have to make. The fact is if you choose not to. Fine don't, but get on peoples backs who want to. Its a straight out religious issue again over the whole 'sanctity of life crap'...guarantee you most people here arguing for abortion to be restricted are relgious and most people here arguing for it are not particularly religious. As far as I'm concerned I'll go for the whole life is cheap we have plenty of it so why the bloody hell is it so sacrosanct argument.

PatrickHenry · Jul 28, 2004, 09:47 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Samildanach,
As far as I'm concerned I'll go for the whole life is cheap we have plenty of it so why the bloody hell is it so sacrosanct argument.

This argument is amoral. If life is so cheap, why worry about anyones's life? Yours, your wife, your kids, hundreds of millions of innocent people anywhere on earth? Why make laws about drunk driving or waste the money prosecuting murder? Life's cheap!

Your argument: Life's cheap so let the WMD out of the bag and, "Whoopee! We're all going to die!"

If you don't value human life, what does get your approval?

Liberty Landing · Jul 28, 2004, 10:49 am

Quote:

Give a shit about the lives of the women whose children have died because of murderers like the Bushes and the Clintons. Cheer while these people murder the chances of life in other countries and parts of this one and then tell me how brilliant you are and capable you are to run my daughter's life.

Can you, just once in any debate anywhere on this forums, NOT throw strawmen into an argument?

Quote:

Its a straight out religious issue again over the whole 'sanctity of life crap'...guarantee you most people here arguing for abortion to be restricted are relgious and most people here arguing for it are not particularly religious.

I am a pro-life agnostic, but I don't see what one has to do with the other. In fact, I don't see what religious bearings have to do with a debate at all.
Would my opinion be less legitimate if I were Christian?

Quote:

But the fact is the law recognises the fact that abortion is a necessity to have in todays society.

If the law is wrong, then the law ought to be changed.
This is a debate about whether the law is good or bad, not why it exists. Appeals to authority mean nothing here.

Quote:

They had it all going for them, straight A students, scholarships to some of the finest schools in America, and even promising career aspirations. Now all that is down the drain.

You can't possibly tell me those girls didn't understand the risk of sex before they had it.
They knew EXACTLY what could've happened and did it, anyway. Their own bad mistake is no reason to reject responsibility for a life they created just because they won't get their degree.

Liberty Landing · Jul 28, 2004, 11:09 am

Anyway, back on topic:

Whether pro-life or pro-choice this shirt is STILL in bad taste. Even if you've come to the heart-wrenching decision to have an abortion, why would you want that painful part of your private life advertised?

Gorgo · Jul 28, 2004, 11:47 am

Maybe to remove some of the stigma attached so that it is not so difficult for people to go through in the future?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 28, 2004, 12:11 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gorgo,
Maybe to remove some of the stigma attached so that it is not so difficult for people to go through in the future?

Maybe, but seeing as its murder, wearing a T-Shirt that says "I am a baby killer" isn't really going to impress that many people.

Gorgo · Jul 28, 2004, 12:38 pm

Yes, if they were wearing a T-Shirt that told a lie like that, then few would be impressed.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 28, 2004, 02:18 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gorgo,
Yes, if they were wearing a T-Shirt that told a lie like that, then few would be impressed.

How is it a lie? A fetus is a baby. Its alive, it has a heart beat... its human. To end that life before 9 months is murder. How you can reasonably consider a fetus anything short of an alive human is beyond me. Calling the ending of that life anything sans murder is beyond me as well.

Gorgo · Jul 28, 2004, 02:48 pm

We have to draw the line somewhere. If we didn't have abortion, you'd be screaming that we were murdering babies by using contraception. If we didn't have contraception, you'd be screaming that abstention was wrong or God wouldn't have given us the urge to have sex. Or maybe you scream these things anyway.

You've shown that you are a false prophet and that you don't care about human life. Until you show yourself to be different, please don't run my children's and grandchildren's lives.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 28, 2004, 02:59 pm

I have never any such thing. Whats this false prophet stuff? I mean an avowed atheist talking about prophets? do you do this cause you think it makes you witty and cool?

Draw the line somewhere? I draw the line at post-conception. Once you are pregnant, it murder. Anything else is not.

You put words into my mouth because you cannot debate the issue, you attack me and try to paint me as some kind of zealot, which I am not. You are dodging the central point of my arguement, that ending a the life of a child while it is in the womb is anything but murder.

You have proven you cannot answer that charge with anything less then childish recantments of the tired old "progressive" retorts of smear and melodramatic hate. I have never said ONE thing about contraception being evil. I have not brought God into this (Funny the Athiest did.. imagine that) Then you attempt to imply I scream these thigns anyway like I am some sort of moron.

And to top off your pathetic tirade, you pop the false prophet line (again, another religious comment from an athiest.. amazing) tell me to be different, and then the ultimate Abortion Rights Shield.. don't run my children or grandchildrens lives!

Ehem... by your previous statements, you care little for life, you show that you care only about death, and the "right" to avert personal responsibility for ones actions through death.

Liberty Landing · Jul 28, 2004, 03:05 pm

Quote:

If we didn't have abortion, you'd be screaming that we were murdering babies by using contraception.

Why? Sperm doesn't have the potential to become life. A fertilized egg does.

That said, yeah, the ad hominem's getting old.

Jul 27, 2004, 08:40 pm	#21 (permalink) (top)
bugsbunny04 Untrained Fodder Location: Alabama Posts: 1,354	Okay, first of all, I only consider abortion a womans right to choose if she is raped and does not know at first, or is raped in seclusion, or denied proper medical treatment, where pregnancy would be prevented. In all other cases, abortion is not the right to choose, but to change her mind. She has already made her choice, she chose to open her legs and let somebody without a condom on let his rooster crow in her hen. They are changing their mind at the expense of a human life, very selfish. Dont get me wrong, if he is going to be retarded or disabled, that is called euthanasia. If he is going to be healthy, however, it is simply murder. Now for the shirt: :( And thats all I have to say to anybody I see wearing it. And yes, PRH, kids do like sex, I liked the whole prom dress deal. I just hope my daughter is a lesbian in high school. I know a few, none of them have had an abortion (I wonder why ) Clean toe caps and a filthy mouth! Low morals and high morale!

Jul 27, 2004, 10:24 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	The whole.. killing a human life for convience thing doesn't bug you? Okay... I believe in the old saying, you made your bed, now lie in it school of thought. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 27, 2004, 11:46 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799	Ah yes, Mr. V, with his divine knowledge knows when Life begins. And, of course, not satisfied with deciding that for himself, he's perfectly willing to decide it for everyone. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jul 28, 2004, 12:40 am	#26 (permalink) (top)
Seeker_Of_Sins Go the Crusaders Posts: 671	Abortion is a permanent answer to a long term problem. Unwanted children lead to unloved children which in turn lead to problem children. Abortion should be supported rather than abused. For all you abortion protestors out there, piss off and get a life and stop bothering people who are making an emotional decision in a logical fashion. Your continual bombardment of abuse directed at woman choosing abortion and supporters of abortion shows you to be the cold hearted brutal do as I say, not as I do, type of people that I have come to truelly despise. You have two choices in life: You can stay single and be miserable, Or get married and wish you were dead.

Jul 28, 2004, 08:25 am	#28 (permalink) (top)
waterfalllife Molten Ash Posts: 143	The day the government decides whats best for the welfare of my loved one or daughter will be the day I move to Canada. Abortion is not a long term solution to a short term problem. I know 3 girls in my former high school that decided to have the kids when we were still classmates. They had it all going for them, straight A students, scholarships to some of the finest schools in America, and even promising career aspirations. Now all that is down the drain. Its not some thing that a person should have to stop what she is doing just to care for a child that will not grow up with as much care and wisdom as parents who wait to have kids and raise them correctly. "The reason we can't find a relationship between the Constitution and the government is that there is none." -Michael Badnarik

Jul 28, 2004, 12:01 am	#25 (permalink) (top)
StoneWT Guest Posts: n/a	prettyredhead, Whatever pain you have been through and/or witnessed, I think most of the people on this board would be supportive.

Jul 28, 2004, 08:43 am	#29 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Life, human life means something to me. Responsibility for bringing life into this world MEANS something to me. I am saddened that so many here on this board see children as nothing more then a bother, a problem easily fixed by a trip to the doctors office like that makes the world all good and well. The real solution to unwanted pregnancy is... don't have sex till you are married and in a position to deal with such consequences like.. pregnancy. I know that is going to sound closed minded and old fashioned.. but its true. Waiting to have sex till you are married and in a position to deal with a child should you get pregnant, or impregnate, may not be fun, may not be cool... buts the best response especially to the "starving homeless unwanted" kids line. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 28, 2004, 09:31 am	#30 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	That solution is never going to happen in todays world, you have to at least be realistic. Murder is murder I agree with you there. But the fact is the law recognises the fact that abortion is a necessity to have in todays society. Its more about a choice more than anything else....one that you or your daughter or your gf or whatever would have to make. The fact is if you choose not to. Fine don't, but get on peoples backs who want to. Its a straight out religious issue again over the whole 'sanctity of life crap'...guarantee you most people here arguing for abortion to be restricted are relgious and most people here arguing for it are not particularly religious. As far as I'm concerned I'll go for the whole life is cheap we have plenty of it so why the bloody hell is it so sacrosanct argument. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jul 28, 2004, 11:09 am	#33 (permalink) (top)
Liberty Landing Igneous Magma Posts: 299	Anyway, back on topic: Whether pro-life or pro-choice this shirt is STILL in bad taste. Even if you've come to the heart-wrenching decision to have an abortion, why would you want that painful part of your private life advertised? *<span style='color:red'>Draft South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford for President in 2008 -- and get a REAL Republican in the White House!</span>*

Jul 28, 2004, 11:47 am	#34 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Maybe to remove some of the stigma attached so that it is not so difficult for people to go through in the future?

Jul 28, 2004, 12:38 pm	#36 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Yes, if they were wearing a T-Shirt that told a lie like that, then few would be impressed.

Jul 28, 2004, 02:48 pm	#38 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	We have to draw the line somewhere. If we didn't have abortion, you'd be screaming that we were murdering babies by using contraception. If we didn't have contraception, you'd be screaming that abstention was wrong or God wouldn't have given us the urge to have sex. Or maybe you scream these things anyway. You've shown that you are a false prophet and that you don't care about human life. Until you show yourself to be different, please don't run my children's and grandchildren's lives.

Jul 28, 2004, 02:59 pm	#39 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	I have never any such thing. Whats this false prophet stuff? I mean an avowed atheist talking about prophets? do you do this cause you think it makes you witty and cool? Draw the line somewhere? I draw the line at post-conception. Once you are pregnant, it murder. Anything else is not. You put words into my mouth because you cannot debate the issue, you attack me and try to paint me as some kind of zealot, which I am not. You are dodging the central point of my arguement, that ending a the life of a child while it is in the womb is anything but murder. You have proven you cannot answer that charge with anything less then childish recantments of the tired old "progressive" retorts of smear and melodramatic hate. I have never said ONE thing about contraception being evil. I have not brought God into this (Funny the Athiest did.. imagine that) Then you attempt to imply I scream these thigns anyway like I am some sort of moron. And to top off your pathetic tirade, you pop the false prophet line (again, another religious comment from an athiest.. amazing) tell me to be different, and then the ultimate Abortion Rights Shield.. don't run my children or grandchildrens lives! Ehem... by your previous statements, you care little for life, you show that you care only about death, and the "right" to avert personal responsibility for ones actions through death. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?