Political snitches monitor sermons

[Mr.Vicchio]

WASHINGTON – At least two organizations are monitoring the content of Sunday sermons by U.S. pastors and threatening to report churches to the Internal Revenue Service if they hear political messages they deem inappropriate under federal guidelines on tax-exempt status. Earlier this week, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, headed by Barry Lynn, filed a complaint with the IRS against Ronnie Floyd, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Springdale, Ark., accusing him of preaching a sermon promoting President Bush's re-election July 4. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=39596

This is scary. These people are doing everything they can to remove religion from America. These tactics would make Orwell shudder with shades of 1984....

Scary people

[kharmajunkie]

First off, Barry Lynn can send in all the reports to the IRS he wants
but that pastor isn't doing anything to jeopardize his church's tax exempt status. For a guy that works in a movement that is dedicated to the idea of the separation of church and state, he doesn't know much about the issue. If the pastor also worked for, say HUD and he spent an hour a week preaching to his clients or fellow workers and implimented his views into his work life; then he would be violating
"separation of church and state". What the pastor did at his service
was expressing his first amendment rights; he didn't profit from it.
I don't like that the Religious elite in this country want to take
over and push their agenda on everyone else. If I was a member of that church I would have issues with my pastor but this Barry Lynn guy does everyone a disservice by bullying a pastor.

[Gorgo]

Whether Barry Lynn is right or wrong on this particular issue I don't know, however, expecting people to obey the law is something that you're against, V? From a guy who defends the so-called Patriot Act? Interesting.

[PatrickHenry]

I don't want the Christian Right in my church either. I have told the leadership to keep the message on the topic of saving grace. I would report my own church to the IRS if they promote Dubya's candidacy in any official way. Or Kerry's either for that matter.

The most a church should say to members is, "investigate the issues and vote your conscience." Taking it further than that endangers the church's 501-3C status. Something no responsible, tithing member would want.

[kharmajunkie]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, I don't want the Christian Right in my church either. I have told the leadership to keep the message on the topic of saving grace. I would report my own church to the IRS if they promote Dubya's candidacy in any official way. Or Kerry's either for that matter. The most a church should say to members is, "investigate the issues and vote your conscience." Taking it further than that endangers the church's 501-3C status. Something no responsible, tithing member would want.

I'm practically an atheist and can't believe I'm saying this but
I agree with you in theory; still it's his right to endorse any candidate he
chooses to; even in church. A violation of church and state occurs on the government end when one's religious ideology dictates policy. If he doesn't work for the government then I don't see how he's violating church/state.
I'm surprised more people don't complain about churches being used as polling places; that's where I vote in my neighborhood.

[Gorgo]

Actually, I think the churches can't push a particular candidate without jeopardizing its tax-exempt status. Start taxing churches, and you won't have that problem, 'V.'

http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArti...ws_iv_ctrl=1241

[superchic[k]]

in my school my teacher pushed strongly for us to vote for kerry. why doesn't he get in trouble? that pastor was just voicing his opinion. since when is that against the law?

[Pooeypants]

Religion and Politics are meant to be seperate or something aren't they?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: superchic[k] in my school my teacher pushed strongly for us to vote for kerry. why doesn't he get in trouble? that pastor was just voicing his opinion. since when is that against the law?

It's because it is a charitable org, non-political. The pastor can say who he likes but not in his official capacity, unless he doesn't care about the tax-exempt rules. In that case the IRS pulls the tax exemption and members contributing may not deduct their gifts to the church. Most who give substantial amounts find the tax deduction useful at tax time...

[Catch 22]

I don't see why this is a big issue, churches of all kinds shouldn’t get tax-exempt status in the first place. It’s an organization that preaches various beliefs and faiths, where’s the no taxes come in? What? Cause they donate some of their bible money to food drives so they can convert hobos? I mean the Catholic Church has billions of dollars of assets and they’re spending it on the pope’s rings and St Peter’s basilica.

[Scribbler1]

Good point, Catch. I don't recall ever reading a solid explanantion of why a church is not taxed nor a defense as to why it shouldn't be. I can see a tax exemption for a little storefront church or similar entity, but why the Catholic Church or preschers like Riobert Schuller aren't taxed is beyond me.
As for Lynn, I don't see where he has any more political clout than anyone else. He can watch the churches for improper activities as is his right and as churches SHOULD be watched.

[Starboy]

Actually I have no problem with any private organization making any kind of free speech as long as they do not enjoy tax exempt status. However in applying for and accepting tax exempt status they agree to not endorse any particular candidate. This not only goes for a church but for any other tax exempt organization. If they can't abide by that then they should stop filing for tax exempt status.

Personally I think that all these churches that have launched themselves into politics will look back on it as one of the biggest mistakes they could have made. It is not as if politics was or every will be confused with high principles and morality. It will eventually become obvious that all the political activity by churches has nothing to do with any mission from god but with just plain old power grabbing.

Starboy

[Catch 22]

Good point, Catch. I don't recall ever reading a solid explanantion of why a church is not taxed nor a defense as to why it shouldn't be. I can see a tax exemption for a little storefront church or similar entity, but why the Catholic Church or preschers like Riobert Schuller aren't taxed is beyond me.

Neither have I which is why I’m so confused as why we continue to let them get away with highway robbery when the debt is in the trillions. It’s incredibly confusing since it’s just accepted.

As for Lynn, I don't see where he has any more political clout than anyone else. He can watch the churches for improper activities as is his right and as churches SHOULD be watched.

Agreed, churches need to be watched so that they don’t step over that line and start praising the lord and then praising the checked box of x party. If only this were Europe and people didn’t give a damn about religion, if only thing were that simple here.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Catch 22 Agreed, churches need to be watched so that they don’t step over that line and start praising the lord and then praising the checked box of x party. If only this were Europe and people didn’t give a damn about religion, if only thing were that simple here.

That's why I mentioned (and misspelled) Robert Schuler. Even though I don't recall anything overtly political from him, I think when you can build that gigantic "cathedral" thing and have a multi-million dollar TV studio in house, you SHOULD be taxed. Obviously this guy is far from tapped out from doing charitable works.

[ericsp23]

This is scary. These people are doing everything they can to remove religion from America.

Okay, you are going to have to explain this to me. How exactly does a single man who is making sure that churches obey the law going to "remove religion from America?" It seems like you are blowing this way out of proportion.

These tactics would make Orwell shudder with shades of 1984....

I suspect Orwell would be more concerned with churches using the pulpit to further a political movement than he would be about this.