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nature of reality · Nov 15, 2003, 12:01 am

"Well under your, options of freedom.

Electric companies could refuse me Electricity.

Water compainies could refuse me Water.

What should i do, grap a spear and go and live in a cave somewhre?"

Is it THEIR water? Is it THEIR electricity? WHY DO YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO OTHER PEOPLES THINGS? you have a skewed perception because those utiliaties, if i remeber right, in britain are run by the state. If one company doesn't want to sell you something, fuck em, buy from someone else. The solution is not to negate property rights, but to demolish government regulation forcing monopolies. well that is a bit redudant, as that is the only way a TRUE monopoly can be formed.

"Governments tell people what to do (laws). Tell companies what to do(laws). Control compainies who do not behave themselves(regulation). "

Is the purpose of government to remove properties from one group of people and present them to others? No?

A government should only act if it BENEFITS EVERYONE. Not the common good (at the expense of the uncommon good). If a government action takes away the rights of anyone (proprety!, PURSUIT of happiness, etc), then its the basis for facsim.

Government regulation is self defeating, as it destroys the valuablilty of reputation. After that, it is far cheaper to bribe/lobby officials rather then adhere to the standards. Government corrupts the business, not vice-versa.

"Whithout people you have no government. People band together, ie Trade unions. Who told the compainies what pay and condition they wanted.

So my learned friend. I have every right to demand, what i feel is justice. I have every right to write letter to governments. Complain and make a noise. I have every fucking right to do so.

Unless of course YOU want to take away my freedom of speech as well"

Yes, you do have the right to petition and to say this spewage. But i have the right to say your a fucking fascist fool who thinks need trumps property rights.

darwinist · Nov 15, 2003, 07:52 am

Yet again you prove that you did not read the original post. Yes i am British. But as the first sentence in the post says I am living in the Netherlands.

Perhaps your right, I may have a skewed perception of the utiliaties. So i concede that minor point.

-----If one company doesn't want to sell you something, fuck em, buy from someone else.

The whole point of my post is. I can not can any company to sell me there service. So i can not say fuck them. To buy from someone else. As there is no one else to buy from.

I am not trying to negate property rights. I am trying to make regulation, for what i think is a basic service.

-----Is the purpose of government to remove properties from one group of people and present them to others? No

If we like it or not. This is what the Governments are doing on a daily basis. But there is a difference between, property rights, products and services.

Fascism is extreme right wing dictorship. I do not think that i am a Fascist. The last experience of Fascism in Europe, was the Nazi. They took are indivial rights with extreme prejudice. I think, i am trying to do the exact opposite. Trying to enfore indivial rights. So perhaps i am a Non-Fascist. :)

G. Adams · Nov 15, 2003, 01:01 pm

Ignore NoR, he's gotta be a sixteen year old or a country bumpkin living in the marshes. Anyone into politics has a good grasp of fascism and communism, he has neither. I suspect he meight just be a well designed ai program that just pumps out the same responses to certain stimuli.

darwinist · Nov 15, 2003, 01:32 pm

lol, thanks for the suppurt Adams. What is your opion on this issue?

Perphaps if you have any spare time, you could see what the British Banks policy is on other Europeans opening Banks accounts in the UK is?

As i have not lived int eh UK ofr 5 years now.

G. Adams · Nov 15, 2003, 07:40 pm

Well its not something i'm passionate about or anything, but considering that every job I've had has paid into accounts only, no cash in hand, I can imagine how tough it would be with a bamk account.

Surely if banks are afraid of unreliable customers making overdraws and not paying back, could they not create a really basic account, purely savings, no loans or overdraws. The bank gets extra money, and poorer people have somewhere safe to store money.

laserkid · Nov 15, 2003, 08:40 pm

While I find sympathy for the man who can't get a Bank account, keep in mind the people who work at the Bank aren't doing it out of the niceness of their heart, its because they TOO need an income source, and if the bank institution is to pay their employees it needs to be making a profit to operate, so unless you want a federally funded bank paid for by tax dollars, then a bank account will not become a "right" - simply because you're basically screaming "hey you, do this for me you owe me to make my bank account wether you lose your livlihood over it or not!"

darwinist · Nov 16, 2003, 07:13 am

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
While I find sympathy for the man who can't get a Bank account, keep in mind the people who work at the Bank aren't doing it out of the niceness of their heart, its because they TOO need an income source, and if the bank institution is to pay their employees it needs to be making a profit to operate, so unless you want a federally funded bank paid for by tax dollars, then a bank account will not become a "right" - simply because you're basically screaming "hey you, do this for me you owe me to make my bank account wether you lose your livlihood over it or not!"

<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Firstly banks are not very likely to lose there livihood over my request.

The amount of people that do not have a bank account. Within the population, i would think is very small. As Adams mentioned. It is possible for banks to supply a very basic account. For the very poor and possible non-profit makers. At least in Europe.

One basic checking/current account. No overdraft limit, when you reach zero. That is it. Account is block. This is standard in most banks in Europe and USA, today. Give an PinPass, for the automatic machines. So the only real cost, is the first signing up for the account. Say ten minutes.

Within Europe, unlike in the states. Where it is possible to cash you check at a store. It is very difficult or impossible. To live in mordern day society without a bank account. Only the very poor are being refused. Who wold not want to do much with there accounts anyway. Just a safe place to put there cash.

But by refusing them accounts making them poorer. Therefore making it impossible to ever come out of this catch 22.

Nov 15, 2003, 12:01 am	#21 (permalink) (top)
nature of reality Molten Ash Posts: 134	"Well under your, options of freedom. Electric companies could refuse me Electricity. Water compainies could refuse me Water. What should i do, grap a spear and go and live in a cave somewhre?" Is it THEIR water? Is it THEIR electricity? WHY DO YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO OTHER PEOPLES THINGS? you have a skewed perception because those utiliaties, if i remeber right, in britain are run by the state. If one company doesn't want to sell you something, fuck em, buy from someone else. The solution is not to negate property rights, but to demolish government regulation forcing monopolies. well that is a bit redudant, as that is the only way a TRUE monopoly can be formed. "Governments tell people what to do (laws). Tell companies what to do(laws). Control compainies who do not behave themselves(regulation). " Is the purpose of government to remove properties from one group of people and present them to others? No? A government should only act if it BENEFITS EVERYONE. Not the common good (at the expense of the uncommon good). If a government action takes away the rights of anyone (proprety!, PURSUIT of happiness, etc), then its the basis for facsim. Government regulation is self defeating, as it destroys the valuablilty of reputation. After that, it is far cheaper to bribe/lobby officials rather then adhere to the standards. Government corrupts the business, not vice-versa. "Whithout people you have no government. People band together, ie Trade unions. Who told the compainies what pay and condition they wanted. So my learned friend. I have every right to demand, what i feel is justice. I have every right to write letter to governments. Complain and make a noise. I have every fucking right to do so. Unless of course YOU want to take away my freedom of speech as well" Yes, you do have the right to petition and to say this spewage. But i have the right to say your a fucking fascist fool who thinks need trumps property rights. Whats wrong with Liberty?

Nov 15, 2003, 07:52 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
darwinist Igneous Magma Location: Netherlands Posts: 200	Yet again you prove that you did not read the original post. Yes i am British. But as the first sentence in the post says I am living in the Netherlands. Perhaps your right, I may have a skewed perception of the utiliaties. So i concede that minor point. -----If one company doesn't want to sell you something, fuck em, buy from someone else. The whole point of my post is. I can not can any company to sell me there service. So i can not say fuck them. To buy from someone else. As there is no one else to buy from. I am not trying to negate property rights. I am trying to make regulation, for what i think is a basic service. -----Is the purpose of government to remove properties from one group of people and present them to others? No If we like it or not. This is what the Governments are doing on a daily basis. But there is a difference between, property rights, products and services. Fascism is extreme right wing dictorship. I do not think that i am a Fascist. The last experience of Fascism in Europe, was the Nazi. They took are indivial rights with extreme prejudice. I think, i am trying to do the exact opposite. Trying to enfore indivial rights. So perhaps i am a Non-Fascist. :) What goes 'up', must come 'down', unless it goes around and round.

Nov 15, 2003, 01:01 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,153	Ignore NoR, he's gotta be a sixteen year old or a country bumpkin living in the marshes. Anyone into politics has a good grasp of fascism and communism, he has neither. I suspect he meight just be a well designed ai program that just pumps out the same responses to certain stimuli. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Nov 15, 2003, 01:32 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
darwinist Igneous Magma Location: Netherlands Posts: 200	lol, thanks for the suppurt Adams. What is your opion on this issue? Perphaps if you have any spare time, you could see what the British Banks policy is on other Europeans opening Banks accounts in the UK is? As i have not lived int eh UK ofr 5 years now. What goes 'up', must come 'down', unless it goes around and round.

Nov 15, 2003, 07:40 pm	#25 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,153	Well its not something i'm passionate about or anything, but considering that every job I've had has paid into accounts only, no cash in hand, I can imagine how tough it would be with a bamk account. Surely if banks are afraid of unreliable customers making overdraws and not paying back, could they not create a really basic account, purely savings, no loans or overdraws. The bank gets extra money, and poorer people have somewhere safe to store money. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Nov 15, 2003, 08:40 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
laserkid Molten Ash Location: Sore Wa Himitsu Desu Posts: 80	While I find sympathy for the man who can't get a Bank account, keep in mind the people who work at the Bank aren't doing it out of the niceness of their heart, its because they TOO need an income source, and if the bank institution is to pay their employees it needs to be making a profit to operate, so unless you want a federally funded bank paid for by tax dollars, then a bank account will not become a "right" - simply because you're basically screaming "hey you, do this for me you owe me to make my bank account wether you lose your livlihood over it or not!" "That is a Secret." -Xellos

Nov 16, 2003, 07:13 am	#27 (permalink) (top)
darwinist Igneous Magma Location: Netherlands Posts: 200	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by While I find sympathy for the man who can't get a Bank account, keep in mind the people who work at the Bank aren't doing it out of the niceness of their heart, its because they TOO need an income source, and if the bank institution is to pay their employees it needs to be making a profit to operate, so unless you want a federally funded bank paid for by tax dollars, then a bank account will not become a "right" - simply because you're basically screaming "hey you, do this for me you owe me to make my bank account wether you lose your livlihood over it or not!" <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Firstly banks are not very likely to lose there livihood over my request. The amount of people that do not have a bank account. Within the population, i would think is very small. As Adams mentioned. It is possible for banks to supply a very basic account. For the very poor and possible non-profit makers. At least in Europe. One basic checking/current account. No overdraft limit, when you reach zero. That is it. Account is block. This is standard in most banks in Europe and USA, today. Give an PinPass, for the automatic machines. So the only real cost, is the first signing up for the account. Say ten minutes. Within Europe, unlike in the states. Where it is possible to cash you check at a store. It is very difficult or impossible. To live in mordern day society without a bank account. Only the very poor are being refused. Who wold not want to do much with there accounts anyway. Just a safe place to put there cash. But by refusing them accounts making them poorer. Therefore making it impossible to ever come out of this catch 22. What goes 'up', must come 'down', unless it goes around and round.