Prostitution

[LadiesMan217]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Which then means that athiests are capable of anything? Yet I would be surprised to hear that not one theist has ever used a prostitute.

Nice red herring.

Have you never heard that morality can be based on personal experience and intelligence, it doesn't need a god to enforce it?

If I am the sole judge of my morality and you are of yours then why would it be wrong for me to commit murder or steal or cannibalize if in the confines of my morality it is acceptable, who would you be to tell me that I am wrong?

[Aussie]

I've saw a doco regarding social experiments on monkeys which was very very interesting. They introduced a form of currency using tokens and taught them that in order to receive food, they would have to exchange a token for an ordinary peice of food. Later they taught them that 2 tokens may get you something even better like fruit! It was then very interesting to watch the behaviours of the monkeys unfold. Monkeys began stealing from other monkeys hoarding tokens or just to get food. The most interesting behaviour was from the female monkeys who figured out that they could exchange tokens for sex. Yes monkey ho's!!

Why anyone cares about some bloke paying some girl for sex in a consensual situation is beyond me. Seems hardly different than spending $100 on drinks trying to pick up!!! *jokes*

Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/ma...ll&oref=slogin

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: LadiesMan217 Nice red herring.

How so?
You believe morality only can exist within religious teachings and yet have no response to the lack of morality within religion and it's users?

If I am the sole judge of my morality and you are of yours then why would it be wrong for me to commit murder or steal or cannibalize if in the confines of my morality it is acceptable, who would you be to tell me that I am wrong?

Did you note the words"intelligence and experience"?
Are you really telling me that you cannot come up with one good non religious reason to not commit crimes of aggression?
Are you so totally dependent on the bible to judge what is right or wrong?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Aussie Why anyone cares about some bloke paying some girl for sex in a consensual situation is beyond me. Seems hardly different than spending $100 on drinks trying to pick up!!! *jokes* Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/ma...ll&oref=slogin

Indeed.


Thanks for that link.


It appears that there could be three professions that could be classified as "the oldest profession".

[LadiesMan217]

How so? You believe morality only can exist within religious teachings and yet have no response to the lack of morality within religion and it's users?

I have no response because it is irrelevant to the discussion, people do things they think are wrong all the time, a theist may also not even believe prostitution is wrong.

Did you note the words"intelligence and experience"? Are you really telling me that you cannot come up with one good non religious reason to not commit crimes of aggression? Are you so totally dependent on the bible to judge what is right or wrong?

Believe me I can think of many reasons but then I would be making your argument for you.

[davedes]

Quote by: GHook93 All these will help prevent the spread of HIV and STDs, which are spread rapidly by prostitution.

Yep, I agree with all your points.

Here's an interesting article on the subject of AIDS and prostitutes:
AIDS Among Prostitutes Not as Prevalent as Believed, Studies Show - New York Times
"Researchers believe that the sharing of contaminated needles to inject drugs - not sexual contacts with multiple partners - is the main source of AIDS among prostitutes."

If the intention is to reduce HIV spread among prostitutes, perhaps it would be wise to implement safe-needle programs alongside legal prostitution. Take, for example, Vancouver's Safe Injection Site, which has greatly reduced needle sharing in the area.

[davedes]

Quote by: thedude Agree with everything said. Would be interested in hearing a counterpoint not based in religious moralism, if anyone has one.

Here are some counterpoints that might be worth adding to the debate:
10 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution by Janice G. Raymond

[Chris]

Quote by: Dagda Many argue that prostetution should be legalised for a number of reasons. 1-If it is legalised and keept to the confines of a brothel then the workers are more secure from the attempts of rape. 2-valuble police resources would be freed to tackle more violent and dangerous crimes. 3-If it is legalised it can be regulated and controled hence health checks can be put in place that makes it safer for worker and user. 4-this regulation also cuts down on the diabolical practice of sex slavery as it will have regular government checks. There are a host more but I will let the discussion commence. What does everyone think?

I merged your "Prostitution" thread with the already existing "Prostitution" thread. Please have a look around before posting parallel threads on the same exact subject (with the same title no less)

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[SoylentGreen]

LadiesMan217 I have no response because it is irrelevant to the discussion, people do things they think are wrong all the time, a theist may also not even believe prostitution is wrong.

It is very relevant, twice you said prostitution is wrong and the only justification that you seem to give to that is that without religion people will act immorally.
I contest this view.

Believe me I can think of many reasons but then I would be making your argument for you.

You just did.

[grandpa]

Quote by: SoylentGreen It is very relevant, twice you said prostitution is wrong and the only justification that you seem to give to that is that without religion people will act immorally. I contest this view.

And you should.

Grandpa h.

[Halofan48]

Quote by: Nono Kristof: Do as Spitzer said - International Herald Tribune I've argued it both ways, on this board and elsewhere. I'd be interested in some sober, balanced views. No rant, please, and libertarians kindly read carefully what Kristof says before posting.

Well, i say legalize it and regulate it, like other countries. Keep the prostitutes indoors to keep them out of public eye and safe from people who would pimp them. Also, perform monthly checks on the prostitutes for STDs and if they have one, remove the prostitute. Also, it's their body. If they want to engage in prostitution, they should be able to, for it is their body.

[Nono]

I used to believe that. But now I'm not so sure.

1) One significant reason is the seeming impossibility of keeping the mafia out of the picture. (If you know of a country that has solved this one, I'd sure like to hear about it.) Mafia = criminal exploitation.

2) There may be a miniscule percentage of prostitutes (or strippers, say) who don't have a serious psychological self-esteem problem. But they must be very rare.
Government (at the bidding of society) regulates all sorts of things to make sure people don't get the chance to enslave themselves (child-labour laws, etc. etc.).

[Halofan48]

Quote by: Nono I used to believe that. But now I'm not so sure. 1) One significant reason is the seeming impossibility of keeping the mafia out of the picture. (If you know of a country that has solved this one, I'd sure like to hear about it.) Mafia = criminal exploitation. 2) There may be a miniscule percentage of prostitutes (or strippers, say) who don't have a serious psychological self-esteem problem. But they must be very rare. Government (at the bidding of society) regulates all sorts of things to make sure people don't get the chance to enslave themselves (child-labour laws, etc. etc.).

I guess we'd just have to see how prostitution is handled in other countries and in the few counties in Nevada where it is legal. If the brothels in Nevada aren't controlled by the mob, we can simply try to copy whatever they are doing to keep them from involving themselves with that.

[Nono]

If the brothels in Nevada aren't controlled by the mob, you can knock me over with a feather. (Anyway, the whole state is LOL. But that isn't the point.)

Anyway I'd like to stress my second point (above) as well: It's also a question of human dignity (sorry -- and I personally am sorry -- but that's just the way sexuality is) and prevention of exploitation. The state (at society's bidding) also won't allow you to sell your left kidney to the hospital down the street.

[Rogue Cardinal]

Prostitution is awesome. Should totally be legal. I think it should be regulated and you have to be at least 18 before you can do it.

You can't stop prostitution. We are always going to have it. We have always had it.

I think it's a business deal between two consenting adults. It's NO different than a one night stand other than you PAY for it rather than get it for free.

Maybe if we legalized it we wouldn't have sexually repressed old preachers having to rape young boys.

[Aussie]

I've always been amazed at the money law enforcement agencies waste on trying to stop prostitution. I remember when Cops was on here (quality viewing I know but I was like 15) when they'd run stings on people using undercover cops as hookers.

One of the most crime ridden countries in the world, and they're trying to lock up a fat guy for paying for a root. Very strange priorities (though I'm sure it's locked to the Christian ethos so it makes perfect sense).

[ThoughtCriminal]

I don't like prostitution, but it doesn't seem like criminalizing it is working. My concern isn't so much with it being against out-dated ethical codes, but rather with the issue of whether these women have viable alternatives to prostitution.

In other words, if this were just a job like many others, then only those who genuinely want to do it would be in the business. I could then disapprove and choose not to use their services, but I wouldn't have much of an argument against it.

However, as it stands, prostitution is associated with feeding drug addiction and also with exploitative relationships with pimps. It is a way for women, who after all these years still make less money than men, to get cash when they're desperate.

TC

[Compugasm]

I've never quite understood how a video camera somehow makes prostitution okay. You've now made a porn movie, and it's legal. Like, in what other situation does a video of the crime, make it a legal act? Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to bank robbery.

[GHook93]

Myth 1: It will give the mob greater control over a revenue stream!
Fact: Whenever something is made legal the mob loses control and it no longer is a revenue stream for them.

Myth 2: Legal prostitution would spread STDs, specifically HIV/AIDS!
Fact: Illegal prostitution spreads STDs more. Legal prostitution would more regulated. Requirement of stronger condoms, cleaner work environments and months (week?) STD testing

Myth 3: Prostutition exploits women!
Fact: This is true; however, illegal prostitution exploits them more. It allows women from other countries to be forced into prostitution against their will. It even exploits children.

[Rogue Cardinal]

Quote by: Compugasm I've never quite understood how a video camera somehow makes prostitution okay. You've now made a porn movie, and it's legal. Like, in what other situation does a video of the crime, make it a legal act? Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to bank robbery.

Well there is a subtle difference. In prostitution on ly one person gets paid.

In porn everybody gets paid.

In prostitution you have to pay someone for the service of sex.

In porn you are getting to paid to show your sexual skills with another person that is getting paid for the same job you are.

But it does make the point even more funny. It's not OK to have sex if only one person gets paid. It's totally OK to have sex if no one gets paid though society in general may frown upon it. It's totally OK to have sex if both parties are paid by a third party that happens to own a video camera! HAHAHAHAHAHA