Service hours in High School

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Halofan48 This is something High School in my area do, and I find it somewhat annoying. Basically, in order to graduate, we need to finish 40 hours of community service, where we do something that benefits the community for free basically, and we need to do it for 40 hours. Though it sounds relatively easy, it can be difficult. 1. there aren't many ways to make the hours 2. With the amount of homework given, it can be difficult to set aside time. So, do you think community service hours should be a requirement in order to graduate high school?

No!!!!

Get a job and have your boss tell them you are doing a service to the community by working, and not by going out and being a hoodlum.

[Halofan48]

Ok, I found out it's a California state requirement, and that they say it's to install a sense of helping your community.

[JaneDoe321]

The *vast* majority of the high schoolers I know (admittedly this is a small sliver of total students, but I do have a child who's a junior in HS) just resent the community service. They'd rather be spending those hours either at their *paid* jobs saving money for college (or watever) or at home relaxing (or doing their AP homework or... or...). It may be too soon to know whether overall it instills anything other than a bad taste in kids' mouths, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 I think the idea behind this is to attempt to instill a sense of "responsibility to something outside oneself." I don't think it's all that effective en masse. I think there are kids who find that charity work is fulfilling, but they most likely would have found this out anyway. I also think this is unfairly biased towards kids who attend church since many youth group activities count towards the hours so those kids have a built-in system to complete their mandated time.

I'm more inclined to think its a college prep type of thing, they like service of some type on your app.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Technosoul Schoolwork is not something you would otherwise pay someone to do, and it is for self-improvement and not to improve soceity per-say. Homework should be banned. If a kid is in school for 6 hours or so that should be enough time to learn what they need to learn. You would not expect me to take home workplace work and do it on my own free time, we should not train kids to do that. It also puts a lot of the blame on parents if they get low marks at school. If we are going to have schools then it should be the total responsiblity of the school to do the teaching, taking that stress off of parents so they can do "family things" together. Expecting teenagers to spend 12 hours a day to study stuff in order to get a passing grade is just not right, in my opinon. A clear line should be drawn between school time and private time. The parent or the child should have a free-will right to pursue education after school hours, or not to pursue those advantages, it should not be forced upon them by homework assignments. A open hour for study time should be incluced in the hours allowed for school time for the purpose of homework, at the school's study hall, or as a free will after school program supervisied by teachers or mentors who are willing to donate time for that purpose.

No homework means doing tasks perfectly suited for solo activity in school, like reading, etc. This either means less learning or more school. Teachers see their kids usually at most an hour each day, not nearly enough practice to truly master a subject. Study sessions are nice, but they tend to be far more distracting than your own home. Doing the work by yourself teaches you scheduling and studying teaches you a skill you'll need desperately in College and the workplace. I never did much homework, and I went to a fancy prep school, I can't imagine that the average kid does all that much studying. then again, I've never been one to put in an exceptional amount of work, I'd generally decide that if I had to study for it too much, it meant I didn't deserve the good grade anyway, and I got out with nearly a 3.8.

[Domino]

It's child labor, tantamount to slavery. Requiring someone to do the work of volunteers does not instill the spirit or work-ethic of a volunteer. Since no lessons are being taught, it's just free labor, as though a high school diploma were a privilege to be granted to the worthy, rather than certification earned through years of study. If they can demand free labor, there's no reason they can't demand tribute from the parents, a pledge of allegiance, or any other of a variety of demeaning practices usually reserved for indentured servants. In America, public education is free. Anyone who needs that principle explained to them clearly was not well-educated in the philosophies of those who founded this nation.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Granted, most of the curriculum won't apply in your career (unless you're some rennaissance man) it's because colleges require it, so when looked at from that perspective, community service is another edge in the college process.

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, learning is valuable for something other than your career? Also, "learning" is more than just the facts of learning, it is the process of learning, which is important to everyone.

Why must people be so career-focused at such a young age? Asking a 16 year old boy to take classes with an eye towards what "career" he wants for the rest of his life is an exercise in futility. Any younger and it becomes sheer stupidity. Learn for learning's sake while you're young, and learn for a career when you're an adult.

Quote by: Technosoul Homework should be banned. If a kid is in school for 6 hours or so that should be enough time to learn what they need to learn. You would not expect me to take home workplace work and do it on my own free time, we should not train kids to do that.

You obviously have never had a professional job. Not only is such behavior "expected", it is required. Homework is a good training tool for the reality of the modern workplace, which does not totally end merely because the clock says a time outside the hours of 9am to 5pm.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Halofan48 Ok, I found out it's a California state requirement, and that they say it's to install a sense of helping your community.

Not sure that's really the place for school. They could and probably do have extra-curricular activities that are for helping the community. You should not be forced to "help" the community there's an emptiness to anything forced.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Halofan48 This is something High School in my area do, and I find it somewhat annoying. Basically, in order to graduate, we need to finish 40 hours of community service, where we do something that benefits the community for free basically, and we need to do it for 40 hours. Though it sounds relatively easy, it can be difficult. 1. there aren't many ways to make the hours 2. With the amount of homework given, it can be difficult to set aside time. So, do you think community service hours should be a requirement in order to graduate high school?

My daughter's high school has a community service requirement as well. I can't remember the number of hours she told me she had to complete.

I don't think it's appropriate for these damned government indoctrination centers to dictate to students that they have to go out and do community service. Memo to the school district: they're not your damned children: stop trying to dictate what they must do during the hours they're not in school.

[Halofan48]

It's state law. Not district.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, learning is valuable for something other than your career? Also, "learning" is more than just the facts of learning, it is the process of learning, which is important to everyone. Why must people be so career-focused at such a young age? Asking a 16 year old boy to take classes with an eye towards what "career" he wants for the rest of his life is an exercise in futility. Any younger and it becomes sheer stupidity. Learn for learning's sake while you're young, and learn for a career when you're an adult.

I never said that they shouldn't learn in all subjects, just that the main reason they do is for college. But most kids have some idea of what subjects thay'll absolutely never go into. Forcing them to get an edge for college through service is no different to me than forcing them to get an edge for college through academics.

[Maryjane]

So, do you think community service hours should be a requirement in order to graduate high school?

Although I don't think it should be required, but I like the idea. My oldest son took a community service class his senior year. He tutored elementary school kids in math. The school also held blood drives.

I'm very big on giving back to the community. As you know, I run my son's elementary school haunted house and my sons and sister help. Over the years we've raised $1,500. I understand the time commitment. I won't be doing it next year as I plan on going back to work.



Our hockey teams were required to do community service. They visited hospitals and nursing homes. They found it very rewarding.

[JaneDoe321]

My kids participate in community service projects with me, but it's always presented as "an opportunity to do something good for people" not "Get your lazy butts in the car! NOW!!!!!!" I *completely* believe that we have an oligation to better our communities. I don't think these types of policies foster that AT ALL.

[atheist]

if there's a requirement for community service, programs should at least be made to ensure these hours aren't wasted doing shit jobs like directing traffic, as the young man mentioned earlier. 'cause stuff like that basically IS child labor. barely any personal or intellectual growth can be made with menial jobs like that.

schools should at LEAST provide safe and engaging community service events/schedules for their students, if they're going to make this thing mandatory for graduation. otherwise it's a requirement that's open for abuse by the community and the people looking for free labor.

i'm glad i graduated before something like this ever happened. i did do community service during high school (around 300+ altogether), but if something like this was enstated, i'd probably feel a little resentful about it.

in another light, community service looks pretty good on college apps. it probably helps kids realize that they don't want to take shitty jobs when they graduate either, which is good motivation for learning/further education for better jobs.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Halofan48 So, do you think community service hours should be a requirement in order to graduate high school?

No. It's ridiculous.

[Derach]

I fully support any school district that enforces community service as part of graduation requirements.

First of all, there are tons of ways to give some time to the community. In my district, varsity athletes can referee/ump little league games for credit. Most of these HS athletes benefitted from a little league program, and its a way for them to give back to a program they benefitted from.

Members of band or chorus can give benefit concerts to the elderly center or the elementary school. Members of tech-ed can donate time to work on school buses or build projects for the school.

Other students can be used on blood drives as volunteers or to help organize local elections.

Others can tutor.

There should be some choice involved for what the students do, but there is GREAT VALUE in volunteering to help a community function in ways that most teenagers take for granted. To say there is no educational value for a student athlete to be an official for youth sports is ignorant. You always learn from participating in an activity from a different perspective than you're used to. Same goes with organizing a blood drive, or helping with a school production.

Education doesn't start and stop in the classroom, and I think encouraging a spirit of involvment in community (usually in ways that students have already participated in as youths) instills pride in your community and a value of good citizenship.

Very shallow and narrow minded to think of this program as slave-labor for the poor abused high schoolers who are 'forced' to give back to a system from which they have been enjoying the fruits of for 12 yrs.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Derach I fully support any school district that enforces community service as part of graduation requirements.

Enforcement is not a voluntary action, and thus not community service in its purest sense. It is simply an obligation.

First of all, there are tons of ways to give some time to the community. In my district, varsity athletes can referee/ump little league games for credit. Most of these HS athletes benefitted from a little league program, and its a way for them to give back to a program they benefitted from.

I see that you are from MA. I went to HS in MA. Compulsory CS would have been just another loophole to jump through and a waste of my time in order to graduate.

Between school and sports, I was at school from 7-5 year round. When I turned 16, I worked on the weekends. In the summer I worked 48 hours a week delivering furniture. In my free time, I was playing sports and chasing tail.

Have you ever delivered a couch or a refrigerator to a third floor apartment in Worcester during the sweltering summer? Instead of community service, get a job. No one in my situation should be required to mandatory community service.

Members of band or chorus can give benefit concerts to the elderly center or the elementary school. Members of tech-ed can donate time to work on school buses or build projects for the school.

Some schools do this. I doubt it counts towards community service.

Others can tutor.

Helping out your fellow classmates is an act of compassion. Why does the state need to enforce this?

Volunteering is not easy. I recently volunteered to teach people math in order to get their GED, but I had to decline. I am very adept at advanced math. In order to volunteer, I had to meet people at a supervised area at specific times. I don't have a car and I don't have time to commute during their specific times. I offered to meet people in public places near my residence or even answer questions over e-mail. They rejected my offers.

Sometimes giving back to the community is not easy.

Education doesn't start and stop in the classroom, and I think encouraging a spirit of involvment in community (usually in ways that students have already participated in as youths) instills pride in your community and a value of good citizenship.

Ok Dewey, you need to stop your nonsense. Schooling is for education, not manufacturing of good citizens.

Very shallow and narrow minded to think of this program as slave-labor for the poor abused high schoolers who are 'forced' to give back to a system from which they have been enjoying the fruits of for 12 yrs.

The fruits in which their parents pay into via property taxes? BTW, education is compulsory in this nation. It is not like children have a choice.

[Derach]

Quote by: Voluntary Enforcement is not a voluntary action, and thus not community service in its purest sense. It is simply an obligation.

I know it's not volunteerism in it's purest form ... it should be a requirement for graduation .... no different than having to actually be present for a given % of school days is mandatory for graduation. You are also required to take a certain # of english and math classes, and 'extras' (phys ed, tech ed, etc). The fact that community service as a volutary act is not the same as requiring seniors to do something civic oriented is symantic ... of course it isn't real voluntarism. But it does provide an example to the kids who are 'forced' into that participation the sacrifice that true volunteers make to do the same thing (ump little league, sponsor dances and game suppers, provide crossing guards, etc).

Quote by: Voluntary I see that you are from MA. I went to HS in MA. Compulsory CS would have been just another loophole to jump through and a waste of my time in order to graduate. Between school and sports, I was at school from 7-5 year round. When I turned 16, I worked on the weekends. In the summer I worked 48 hours a week delivering furniture. In my free time, I was playing sports and chasing tail.

stop whining. We all have 24 hrs in a day, how you choose to spend them is your business. Most HS seniors have study periods and other time during school that can be used for this service. I'd rather have a kid using his free time working with middle schoolers on a project, or painting backboards, or lining fields than sleeping in the library during study hall.

Quote by: Voluntary Have you ever delivered a couch or a refrigerator to a third floor apartment in Worcester during the sweltering summer? Instead of community service, get a job. No one in my situation should be required to mandatory community service. .

I'll one up ya ... try delivering a piano to a third story house in Cambridge, where you get sued if you scratch the floor. I've also hung sheet rock in every rat hole in Boston, where I was lucky to park 1 mile or less from the job. The adults that used to coach and ref your little league games had jobs AND volunteered so you could have a positive athletic experience. Spending a couple of weekends out on a field with other youths would provide you with some perspective and knowledge that would be more useful to you than humping couches around Worcester. Besides, you have your whole life to work 80+ hr weeks if you choose ... but if a community decides they want you to spend your senior summer doing a litttle less moving and a little more giving to the rest of the community, I don't think you'll be worse off for it, but better in the long run.

Quote by: Voluntary Some schools do this. I doubt it counts towards community service. .

it should

Quote by: Voluntary Helping out your fellow classmates is an act of compassion. Why does the state need to enforce this? .

because the COMMUNITY (I don't think it should be mandated at the state or local level) will benefit from exposing students to the voluteering that is depended on for all the benefits of the town or city to be realized.

Quote by: Voluntary Volunteering is not easy. I recently volunteered to teach people math in order to get their GED, but I had to decline. I am very adept at advanced math. In order to volunteer, I had to meet people at a supervised area at specific times. I don't have a car and I don't have time to commute during their specific times. I offered to meet people in public places near my residence or even answer questions over e-mail. They rejected my offers. .

Exactly why HS seniors should be made aware of how many people devote time, energy and money for things they enjoy (and sometimes need).

Quote by: Voluntary Sometimes giving back to the community is not easy. .

agreed

Quote by: Voluntary Ok Dewey, you need to stop your nonsense. Schooling is for education, not manufacturing of good citizens. .

A quality education goes beyond answering questions on a standardized test. Its purpose is to provide an opportunity for the bulk of the citizens within a community to take care of themselves and exist within a group of other people in a way that does not harm the other people in it.

Quote by: Voluntary The fruits in which their parents pay into via property taxes? BTW, education is compulsory in this nation. It is not like children have a choice.

First of all, everybody pays property taxes, parents of public school students, privately educated ones, home schooled ones, and people that don't have kids at all. Secondly, parents have a plethora of choices as to how to eduate their children ... not the least of which is to choose to live in a community with public schools that conform to their values pertaining to graduation requirments (or curriculum, or extra-curricular possibilities, or college preparation).

Don't act as if every school in America (or even Massachusetts) is an assembly line for kids. Local schools are supposed to be able to determine their own criteria and set their own standards. The right of communities to self determine and self define their educational system is a critical and endangered right that should be protected. There is no place for the federal or state government to place mandates or restrictions on community service for individual school boards. That's the crux of the argument ... local empowerment of school policy.