Hunting Debate

[Matt]

Don't know if another debate exsists about this topic, if it does it must be a few months old since I searched through alot of pages.

My opinion:

Why? Why do people need to hunt? It isn't needed and in some cases it can be very cruel. And the whole population control debate....if people would actually start re-introducing natural predators (meaning bears, wolves, cougars, wolverines, and even lynxes or bobcats) and start not killing the ones that are already there the populations of deer and other prey animals would start to go down. For example, I know deer populations in some parts of the USA are quite high, but just recently people in some parts have been allowed to hunt wolves....how stupid...Some ignorant humans for some strange reason like to kill anything that they view as a threat to their 'top pred' status.

Please post your opinion and thoughts...

[nm420]

Quote by: Matt Why? Why do people need to hunt?

Because chicken and beef gets old after a while. To tell you the truth, I would prefer all my meat to have come from animals that have never known a cage. In that respect, I find hunting to be much more humane than the usual industrial tactics.

Now, if you're going to ask "Why do people need to eat meat?", you should have started a vegetarian thread, of which there is no shortage.

[gela]

I don't mind people hunting introduced species; and species that are out of ecological balance due to human intervention.

I support the hunting of animales that are activly destroying the ecosystem
Such as rabbits, and foxes (here in Australia).

[Clarence]

truth is, Matt. If I could get a license to shoot you and leave your guts to the buzzards then put the useful parts of your carcass in the back of my dodge, I would. *narf!*

[Matt]

Quote by: nm420 Because chicken and beef gets old after a while. To tell you the truth, I would prefer all my meat to have come from animals that have never known a cage. In that respect, I find hunting to be much more humane than the usual industrial tactics. Now, if you're going to ask "Why do people need to eat meat?", you should have started a vegetarian thread, of which there is no shortage.

No, I'm not. My point was hunting is not necessary any longer in human society. And to look on the flip side of what you said: The animals that are wild are having good lives, and they could nicely live them out or they might get killed by a REAL predator who actually needs the food to live. Factory farmed animals are destined to be slaughtered by humans...but wild animals are not. The killing process in hunting can be as bad as the killing process in factory farms, especially if there are 'hunting' dogs involved that are trained to run the prey down and bite them.

Quote by: Clarence truth is, Matt. If I could get a license to shoot you and leave your guts to the buzzards then put the useful parts of your carcass in the back of my dodge, I would. *narf!*

Wow....very mature.

[Clarence]

Wow....very mature.

in those two lines, all aspects of the debate are covered.

I support the hunting of animales that are activly destroying the ecosystem Such as rabbits, and foxes (here in Australia).

[Technosoul]

There is a difference between hunting for food and hunting just for the sport of it. That might be what you are aiming at.

The stores have lots of food, but if a poor person lives near a big swamp they might perfer to save money by fishing and hunting.

If you are super rich you can go buffalo hunting (once a year) on this Indian reservation,

Which is like hunting and shooting a cow on a farm. Only you can get the buffalo head stuffed and hang it on your wall. Anyone ever go chicken hunting? hmm? Not much fun eh?

I personally do not like the idea of hunting wild game, like duck hunting and so forth, although we did it when I was a kid because we were poor people then.

You can get the same thrill and experience with a camera. So now I do my hunting with a camera, it is much more rewarding and does not harm wild animals, and if you accidently photograph another hunter he will not die due to the accident.

[Matt]

Quote by: Clarence in those two lines, all aspects of the debate are covered.

Maybe in Australia...not here in North America though. Could you explain Clarence how wolves, bears, deer, elk, seals, moose, ect. are destroying the ecosystem? Humans are the ones who are destroying the ecosystem. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Clarence]

you presume too much

[Clarence]

to clarify, I agree with your position and was acting in character to enhance the discussion..or at least amuse someone

[USSRv2]

Hunting, like eating beef, is murder. No animal excists for the purpose of feeding you. We humans have to ability to substain from murdering our fellow residents of this plants, and that ability almost makes it our duty. Apart from the taste, there is no justification in murdering the animals of our planet. A pig has the intelligence of a 3 year old child, would you be okay with me having a cage full of 3 year olds? Perhaps i could rape them, but hey, you know, they aren't all that smart.

[Domino]

If three-year olds tasted like bacon... oh wait, they do

[Technosoul]

Quote by: USSRv2 Hunting, like eating beef, is murder. No animal excists for the purpose of feeding you. We humans have to ability to substain from murdering our fellow residents of this plants, and that ability almost makes it our duty. Apart from the taste, there is no justification in murdering the animals of our planet. A pig has the intelligence of a 3 year old child, would you be okay with me having a cage full of 3 year olds? Perhaps i could rape them, but hey, you know, they aren't all that smart.

This is where hunting is better then killing farm animals for food. Because the smarter animals with a high "I Q" would out-fox you and avoid getting shot at, and stupid ones would end up as food on the table.

[Walrus]

I’m okay with killing for food or exterminating vermin but killing animals simply for amusement seems to me a sad thing to want to do.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Matt Why? Why do people need to hunt?

No one needs to hunt. Some just find it to be an enjoyable passtime.

Quote by: Matt It isn't needed and in some cases it can be very cruel. And the whole population control debate....if people would actually start re-introducing natural predators (meaning bears, wolves, cougars, wolverines, and even lynxes or bobcats)

So your objection to hunting is that it's cruel, and your alternative to it is to have the animals in question torn apart by predators?

Quote by: Matt if people would actually start re-introducing natural predators (meaning bears, wolves, cougars, wolverines, and even lynxes or bobcats) and start not killing the ones that are already there the populations of deer and other prey animals would start to go down.

That's one way of doing it. But why deny people the enjoyment they get from hunting?

[JaneDoe321]

I'm not sure that introducing predators into residential areas would be the wisest form of wildlife management, although it could be argued that some of my neighbors' kids are more bestial in many ways than the deer are...

[Matt]

Quote by: USSRv2 Hunting, like eating beef, is murder. No animal excists for the purpose of feeding you. We humans have to ability to substain from murdering our fellow residents of this plants, and that ability almost makes it our duty. Apart from the taste, there is no justification in murdering the animals of our planet. A pig has the intelligence of a 3 year old child, would you be okay with me having a cage full of 3 year olds? Perhaps i could rape them, but hey, you know, they aren't all that smart.

I agree 100%. I forget who wrote the quote, and forgive me if I get it a little wrong:

"Animals are here for their own reasons, just as blacks and women are." This I think is an older quote, when still women and blacks weren't considered equal.

Quote by: Technosoul This is where hunting is better then killing farm animals for food. Because the smarter animals with a high "I Q" would out-fox you and avoid getting shot at, and stupid ones would end up as food on the table.

Nah, maybe on a few occassions, but it would pretty much be the luck of the draw. I wouldn't consider an animal who deeks behind a tree and the bullet hits the tree to have a higher IQ then the one who never deeked behind the tree and got hit. It was just unlucky.

Quote by: The Bacon Guy No one needs to hunt. Some just find it to be an enjoyable passtime. So your objection to hunting is that it's cruel, and your alternative to it is to have the animals in question torn apart by predators? That's one way of doing it. But why deny people the enjoyment they get from hunting?

If people can think a passtime they enjoy is worth more then many lives (lives' with thinking capabilities) then they have problems. I only think hunting is ok if you HAD to hunt to live.

Actually, predators, like wolves or cougars, are very efficient killers (in most cases), probably equal to the power of a bullet placed in the right spot (alot of times bullets aren't placed in the right spot, which can cause a horrible death). For example, a cougar is up in a tree, it sees a deer walking below it, it jumps down on the deer, bites it neck, and the deer is dead within seconds in most cases. Plus, they need the food to live, we DON'T.

Because their enjoyment causes harm and death to many lives. Maybe we should have a yearly hunt for people that have mental dissabilities who have the thinking power of a deer. What's the difference? None really. Though I bet if you asked a group of hunters, they wouldn't do it because they would view it as 'immoral'.

[Matt]

Quote by: JaneDoe321 I'm not sure that introducing predators into residential areas would be the wisest form of wildlife management, although it could be argued that some of my neighbors' kids are more bestial in many ways than the deer are...

I agree. Though it isn't safe for bullets ringing out in residential neighbourhoods either...maybe someone could mistake a house cat as a wild rabbit or a person as a quail....Dick Chainey....

What should be done is male deer in places they aren't wanted should be sedated, neutured, and let go. Yes, the deer will be back in the same place, but it wont be able to have anymore offspring, and it can live out its life. That would reduce the populations after doing it for a little. Or people could catch the deer, and relocate them to a park (eg. yellowstone). Both options would cost money, but its worth it IMO.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Matt If people can think a passtime they enjoy is worth more then many lives (lives' with thinking capabilities) then they have problems.

Perhaps by your subjective standards.

Quote by: Matt Actually, predators, like wolves or cougars, are very efficient killers (in most cases), probably equal to the power of a bullet placed in the right spot (alot of times bullets aren't placed in the right spot, which can cause a horrible death). For example, a cougar is up in a tree, it sees a deer walking below it, it jumps down on the deer, bites it neck, and the deer is dead within seconds in most cases.

Right, so a wolf killing an animal can be done efficiently and putting a bullet in an animal can be done efficiently. The difference is that one method is enjoyable to a lot of people.

Also, not all hunting is done with guns.

Quote by: Matt Plus, they need the food to live, we DON'T.

What difference does that make? The animal being killed doesn't care what the killer's motivation is. If you do care about the animals and not simply about judging people who enjoy things which you find distasteful, then motivation shouldn't matter to you.

Quote by: Matt Because their enjoyment causes harm and death to many lives.

And so would introducing wolves and cougars to control animal populations. What's the difference?

Quote by: Matt Maybe we should have a yearly hunt for people that have mental dissabilities who have the thinking power of a deer. What's the difference?

People with mental disabilities have a constitutionally protected right to life, they're not causing an overpopulation problem and they're likely to have relatives who would suffer as a result of their death.

[Domino]

What should be done is male deer in places they aren't wanted should be sedated, neutured, and let go

I think I'd rather be shot and eaten.

Ya know, wolves, cats, etc. don't always kill before they eat. As long as the critter isn't trying to get away, it's meal time.