Is Capital Punishment Legal?

[Anmon]

Quote by: Walrus As one can never be absolutely sure of their guilt, then there is little possibility of them being “blown away” as you so dramatically put it.

Why not, murderers and rapists, arsonists whatever are as guilty as hell.
Why would they be possibly innocent?

[Walrus]

Quote by: Anmon Why not, murderers and rapists, arsonists whatever are as guilty as hell. Why would they be possibly innocent?

If you don’t accept that there is a possibility of miscarriage of justice, I can assure you that the facts will prove you wrong as there are many examples.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Walrus If you don’t accept that there is a possibility of miscarriage of justice, I can assure you that the facts will prove you wrong as there are many examples.

Oh yeah this old chestnut, most if not all murders and rapists are proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt as soon as their caught, you have been watching too much Boston Legal.
If there is any doubt sure, trial them more, but there is so much conjecture, and technicality's bought into it now, that are not a true part of justice, its just in there for lawyers to milk the system, to make them richer.
My view is execute them as soon as found guilty beyond doubt, do it quickly and most painlessly, the guillotine I believe is still recognised as the best implement for this.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Oh yeah this old chestnut, most if not all murders and rapists are proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt as soon as their caught, you have been watching too much Boston Legal. If there is any doubt sure, trial them more, but there is so much conjecture, and technicality's bought into it now, that are not a true part of justice, its just in there for lawyers to milk the system, to make them richer.

Not only are some perfectly innocent people in prison, but it's hypocritical to kill them.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

Quote by: grandpa Not only are some perfectly innocent people in prison, but it's hypocritical to kill them. Grandpa h.

There may be innocent people in jail, but I doubt on death row.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon There may be innocent people in jail, but I doubt on death row.

You're also wrong about that. People get exonerated from death row with a regularity that could alarm anyone.

Innocence: List of Those Freed From Death Row

With people's lives at stake, mentalities like yours are nothing but dangerous. If you think twice before pulling the trigger, you should also think twice before sentencing one to death. It's not a great, big leap of logic from one point to the other.

Even further, I'm not for the death penalty. It's hypocrisy at its finest.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

Just points to bad police work in the arrest, it doesn't mean the concept is wrong.
How about a list of murderers rapists and psychos killing again after they have left jail?
I bet it would have a list of victims a lot longer than your one.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Just points to bad police work in the arrest, it doesn't mean the concept is wrong. How about a list of murderers rapists and psychos killing again after they have left jail?

Well, it proves the concept isn't totally correct. Personally, I think to have the death penalty instituted in each and every case above is wrong, both in terms of evidence and in general morality.
I'm sure there are other cases that have not been made public, because they were never pursued.

As for murderers and rapes still committing crimes if they are released, it happens. I'm not going to deny that. But prisons (at least in the current sense) and the death penalty are no solution. They serve best onbly to rationalize draconian laws and rule by elites.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

[grandpa;496667]Well, it proves the concept isn't totally correct.

No concept is, we just do the best with what we have or will have.

Personally, I think to have the death penalty instituted in each and every case above is wrong, both in terms of evidence and in general morality. I'm sure there are other cases that have not been made public, because they were never pursued.

Well I agree partly with that, but if some one is absolutely guilty beyond any doubt, then off with them.

As for murderers and rapes still committing crimes if they are released, it happens. I'm not going to deny that. But prisons (at least in the current sense) and the death penalty are no solution. They serve best onbly to rationalize draconian laws and rule by elites.

They protect the public as well don't forget, can you imagine what would happen if there were no jails?

[Walrus]

Quote by: Anmon Oh yeah this old chestnut, most if not all murders and rapists are proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt as soon as their caught, you have been watching too much Boston Legal. If there is any doubt sure, trial them more, but there is so much conjecture, and technicality's bought into it now, that are not a true part of justice, its just in there for lawyers to milk the system, to make them richer. My view is execute them as soon as found guilty beyond doubt, do it quickly and most painlessly, the guillotine I believe is still recognised as the best implement for this.

Calling something an “old chestnut” doesn’t invalidate it. As to watching “Boston Legal,” something that you seem to believe has clouded my judgment, whatever “Boston Legal” is, I have never heard of it.

Regarding the conception of a directive that insists a criminal trial needs to prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt. To be realistic, this would make it so hard to convict anyone you would have guilty persons going free whilst still not totally guaranteeing that no innocent person would be condemned.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon No concept is, we just do the best with what we have or will have. Well I agree partly with that, but if some one is absolutely guilty beyond any doubt, then off with them.

But if "doing the best with what we have" involves killing someone -- with the possibility of killing one who didn't even do a terrible act -- there is instant reason to oppose it. Yes, this consideration makes life less fun for "justice-minded" sadists, but it is a practical stance. I also stand behind the underlying principle.

Grandpa h.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Why should we allow capital punishment?

TC

[grandpa]

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal Why should we allow capital punishment?

Because -- and this is their theory, not mine -- without the death penalty you might go next door, bash somebody's brains in and take their car. Also, the state needs to kill somebody somewhere.

Grandpa h.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: grandpa Because -- and this is their theory, not mine -- without the death penalty you might go next door, bash somebody's brains in and take their car. Also, the state needs to kill somebody somewhere. Grandpa h.

Great theory.

TC

[grandpa]

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal Great theory.

It appears to be true.

Grandpa h.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: grandpa It appears to be true. Grandpa h.

The death penalty is hardly what restrains me from rampaging. Nor does society have any absolute need to kill people.

Instead, the purpose of such a policy is to satisfy the bloodlust of modern primitives while selectively killing minorities.

TC

[grandpa]

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal The death penalty is hardly what restrains me from rampaging. Nor does society have any absolute need to kill people.

Actually, I meant that only for the second statement, the one regarding the state.
The first statement I disagree with -- I don't fall in with such people.
But I do think states (or ruling classes) typically have to threaten and occasionally kill some that they seek to rule.

Grandpa h.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: grandpa Actually, I meant that only for the second statement, the one regarding the state. The first statement I disagree with -- I don't fall in with such people. But I do think states (or ruling classes) typically have to threaten and occasionally kill some that they seek to rule. Grandpa h.

It may well be the case that they do threaten to kill people, but I'm not sure that there's any need to.

TC

[grandpa]

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal It may well be the case that they do threaten to kill people, but I'm not sure that there's any need to.

Many apparently feel the need to. Again, I'm not saying I agree with it.

Grandpa h.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: grandpa Many apparently feel the need to. Again, I'm not saying I agree with it. Grandpa h.

I would imagine that death threats would be a nearly last resort, but maybe that's just me.

TC