How Big Is Jesus' Carbon Footprint

[Milton Bradley]

How Big is Jesus' Carbon Footprint?


Christians should reflect on their own behavior before attempt to lecture others about their actions when it comes to Global Warming.


How many basically empty churches are there in your town that heat, and cool untold cubic feet of indoor area for the comfort of their paritioners, even though the bulk of those paritioners rarely attend the church?


How much does the church drive up the price of precious resources by consuming such vast amounts to heat/cool empty buildings making those resources more scarce?


Does one day of worship justify seven days of heating/cooling the church? Does it justify heating/cooling all those empty churches?


Is this what Jesus want would want?


Even more important, do any of the people supporting such behavior have a right to lecture me about conserving resources?


Perhaps organized religion needs to reorganize into an more eco-friendly incarnation, or risk becoming even more obscure.

[Clarence]

maybe these churches could start a Christian efficiency coalition.

[JaneDoe321]

My UU church is in the (very embryonic) stages of trying to gain "Green Sanctuary" status. It's actually more painful than childbirth, metaphorically speaking. (not really, but it's a lot more involved than I expected) UU Ministry for Earth - Green Sanctuary Program It's a very laborious process, but I think that for one thing, as it really requires a consitent committment by a majority of the congregation, and because it takes more than one or two weekends to do this, it has the absolute benefit of changing people's *personal* habits, not just "Hey turn the lights off in the church before you leave..."

I do think it's important for churches to "walk the walk" of "stewardship of the earth" or whatever, though.

[Jack]

(I just wish we had an "Oddest topic title at first glance" contest. This thread would win my nomination. )

[phoenix_fire]

Hey, if you've ever had to show up for choir practice on Wednesday evenings, you'd know that the building is not lighted or climate controlled when not in use. And all things considered, I think that churches should be the least of one's green concerns. Take, for example, Al Gore's many spacious and mass energy consuming mansions. If you're hunting hypocrisy, there it is.

[Clarence]

Hey, if you've ever had to show up for choir practice on Wednesday evenings, you'd know that the building is not lighted or climate controlled when not in use

a chanteuse eh?

Take, for example, Al Gore's many spacious and mass energy consuming mansions. If you're hunting hypocrisy, there it is.

al gore does it. must be fine. So long as he's given is life to jesus, anyhow.

I do think it's important for churches to "walk the walk" of "stewardship of the earth" or whatever, though.

yes exactly

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isherwood (I just wish we had an "Oddest topic title at first glance" contest. This thread would win my nomination. )

I 2nd the nomination.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Hey, if you've ever had to show up for choir practice on Wednesday evenings, you'd know that the building is not lighted or climate controlled when not in use. And all things considered, I think that churches should be the least of one's green concerns. Take, for example, Al Gore's many spacious and mass energy consuming mansions. If you're hunting hypocrisy, there it is.

Passing the blame to someone was already done by Adam in the Garden of Eden, and then by Eve.

Sorry miss Church, no fair hiding behind the fig leaf or shifting the blame to someone else.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley How Big is Jesus' Carbon Footprint? Christians should reflect on their own behavior before attempt to lecture others about their actions when it comes to Global Warming. How many basically empty churches are there in your town that heat, and cool untold cubic feet of indoor area for the comfort of their paritioners, even though the bulk of those paritioners rarely attend the church? How much does the church drive up the price of precious resources by consuming such vast amounts to heat/cool empty buildings making those resources more scarce? Does one day of worship justify seven days of heating/cooling the church? Does it justify heating/cooling all those empty churches? Is this what Jesus want would want? Even more important, do any of the people supporting such behavior have a right to lecture me about conserving resources? Perhaps organized religion needs to reorganize into an more eco-friendly incarnation, or risk becoming even more obscure.

Says the person who promotes the open sale and ownership of guns and drugs. Have you considered the economic or social impacts causes by a society where such items are freely available?

Not likely, I suppose its alright to waste resources to protect yourself from the fantasy black helicopters.

And yes lets freely promote the production, sale, and transport of drugs which have no positive side effects. Freely add pollution shipping cocaine and dope around the country to sell. Thats the american spirt!

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: HelioPrime Have you considered the economic or social impacts causes by a society where such items are freely available?

I have, and more importantly, I have considered living in a society where a person is not free to make their own choices, or think their own thoughts.

Quote by: HelioPrime Not likely, I suppose its alright to waste resources to protect yourself from the fantasy black helicopters.

Quote by: HelioPrime And yes lets freely promote the production, sale, and transport of drugs which have no positive side effects. Freely add pollution shipping cocaine and dope around the country to sell. Thats the american spirt!

So, in absence of any way to truly defend your position, you have reverted to attacking the messenger. That's about what I expected, and right at the level I expected as well. And gee, it only took one post for your bankrupt ideology to fail you.


I don't think any number of hail Mary's, and Our Fathers are going to turn the tide in your favor here.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Milton Bradley How Big is Jesus' Carbon Footprint? Christians should reflect on their own behavior before attempt to lecture others about their actions when it comes to Global Warming. How many basically empty churches are there in your town that heat, and cool untold cubic feet of indoor area for the comfort of their paritioners, even though the bulk of those paritioners rarely attend the church? How much does the church drive up the price of precious resources by consuming such vast amounts to heat/cool empty buildings making those resources more scarce? Does one day of worship justify seven days of heating/cooling the church? Does it justify heating/cooling all those empty churches? Is this what Jesus want would want? Even more important, do any of the people supporting such behavior have a right to lecture me about conserving resources? Perhaps organized religion needs to reorganize into an more eco-friendly incarnation, or risk becoming even more obscure.

The problem isn't about heating empty churches. The problem is that many fundamentalists christians (often religious right dummies) doesn't believe in global warming. All of this because there was a verse in Genesis saying that god gave the earth to human so that they can use its ressource as much as they want.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Isherwood (I just wish we had an "Oddest topic title at first glance" contest. This thread would win my nomination. )

However, you clicked because you had to know. ( Prepares for the old "oh, I'm a Moderator" excuse )


I still got it baby!

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: nerdvincent The problem isn't about heating empty churches. The problem is that many fundamentalists christians (often religious right dummies) doesn't believe in global warming. All of this because there was a verse in Genesis saying that god gave the earth to human so that they can use its ressource as much as they want.

Very true, but I have lost interest in exposing their fantastic beliefs, and have chose instead to open a discussion that could be all inclusive, and possibly get people to think about actually changing their behavior. ( And of the atheists want to offer additional pressure to help istitute change, well, I'm all for that as well.


It's about time somebody got to tell them where to get off.

[Technosoul]

It was the Pope who "went green" and made it a deady sin to be harmful to the environment.

I think that is what started this thread.

The average Christian thinks Jesus will return any day now and at least one 3rd (or more) of the earth will be distroyed. So in light of that belief... why worry about global warming, it is just another sign that the biblical predictions are coming true concerning the "end times".

Which is a dangerous idea.

The Bible said " ... and you will die in a poluted land".

We might be dieing in a poluted land and so perhaps not being environmental is a deadly sin?

GOD IS GREEN.

[Jack]

( Prepares for the old "oh, I'm a Moderator" excuse )

Nope, I'm just a naturally curious fella.

You've created an interesting debate. I'll admit I haven't given much thought to this angle. I've long thought the huge churches, historical and contemporary, are monuments to a lack of faith and misunderstanding of the Bible on the part of their builders. But I hadn't really considered the ecological damage they contribute.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Isherwood Nope, I'm just a naturally curious fella.

Well, that's a good thing, so I suppose you/re forgiven.

Quote by: Isherwood You've created an interesting debate. I'll admit I haven't given much thought to this angle. I've long thought the huge churches, historical and contemporary, are monuments to a lack of faith and misunderstanding of the Bible on the part of their builders. But I hadn't really considered the ecological damage they contribute.

Thank you, and lets not overlook their contributions to our current resource issues.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I have, and more importantly, I have considered living in a society where a person is not free to make their own choices, or think their own thoughts.

So your endorsing a double standard. People should be free to seek out guns and unproductive materials by their own choice yet shouldn't attend church because it wastes materials and time. Fine logic there.

So, in absence of any way to truly defend your position, you have reverted to attacking the messenger. That's about what I expected, and right at the level I expected as well. And gee, it only took one post for your bankrupt ideology to fail you. I don't think any number of hail Mary's, and Our Fathers are going to turn the tide in your favor here.

Defend my position?



As if I need do so. All I see is yet another debate from an atheist view point. In YOUR view religions is a farce so all people should agree going to church building structures dedicated for worship is a waste of time and money.

You argue smoking, guns, and drugs are all free choices people should have access to. Do any of the above really contribute to society?

Let me guess, you'll argue that money and energy would be better spend donating to charity or buying guns to overthrow the corrupt US government?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: mb How many basically empty churches are there in your town that heat, and cool untold cubic feet of indoor area for the comfort of their paritioners, even though the bulk of those paritioners rarely attend the church?

No more then your average HSBC in Hong Kong.

But seriously, I see your point. While I think that the AC at church less of a factor then the other things, it is slightly hypocritical. However, I think you are taking issue with something rather petty.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isherwood Nope, I'm just a naturally curious fella. You've created an interesting debate. I'll admit I haven't given much thought to this angle. I've long thought the huge churches, historical and contemporary, are monuments to a lack of faith and misunderstanding of the Bible on the part of their builders. But I hadn't really considered the ecological damage they contribute.

The whole idea of living in harmoney with nature is concidered or linked to paganism, re-named witchcraft, by the early Chruch. The culture of the Native Americans lived in harmony with nature and they respected nature. But those beliefs were viewed as "savage and paganistic" by many of the religious groups that migrated to this country in those pioneering days.

It is something worth thinking about relative to our current concerns about the environment. The Eden story clearly suggests that men should dominate all the animals and women, making them his "help mate" and servents.

That is why hip hop might refer to women as doggies. ( can I use the "B" word?) Snoop doggie and his "Bs".

We domesticated and dominated the animals and plants that are useful to us, and those that are not useful we attack or push out of our domain. Male Ego verses the Eco-systems. Because God said it was alright? As we "play god" with our earth.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: HelioPrime So your endorsing a double standard. People should be free to seek out guns and unproductive materials by their own choice yet shouldn't attend church because it wastes materials and time. Fine logic there.

My point is that organized religion is doing a fine job of making resources more scarce, and expensive for the poor. But, as expected, that wasn't the point you want to take from this, because it illustrates your own hypocricy.

Quote by: HelioPrime Defend my position?

No, I don't just automatically defend every crazy conspiracy joke that flies around here.

Quote by: HelioPrime As if I need do so. All I see is yet another debate from an atheist view point. In YOUR view religions is a farce so all people should agree going to church building structures dedicated for worship is a waste of time and money.

My point was that it is also a waste of precious resources, and one of the agents driving up prices for the poor.

Quote by: HelioPrime You argue smoking, guns, and drugs are all free choices people should have access to. Do any of the above really contribute to society?

As individuals, we are not tax exampt in the name of "doing good for society", so I don't see how that has any relevance here, other than you cannot articulate a legitimate rebuttle to me points, and have, as stated befor, reverted to attacking the messenger who delivers messages you don't like hearing.