The Problem With Women Today

[Anmon]

[=SoylentGreen;496082]Women have led nations and done no better or worse than men at it.

Occasionally, don't try to make it something more than it is but, would you try for a percentage of women leading nations successfully or not throughout history as opposed to men doing the same?

Civilisation is based on the hard work of providing. Something women do far better than men.

Aaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhaaaaaa!! sorry my ribs but ok you really need to re think that, alot. How far do you think any civilsation would have got without men doing the vital essentials of hunting and killing for food, not to mention building everything, my god the amount of women doing that kind of hard labour through history is in overwhelming numbers right? And not to mention protecting it from other men or dangerous animals as well, are you one of these history rewriter's who now have to portray women as doing all this as well, in order to fit in with modern society's screwed up views on gender roles, when we know they clearly didn't?
Dont feed me the stereotypes garbage, or about how you know someones big Aunty Joan that can lift heavy stuff as good as any man, yeah ok there are some women now and then who can rough it, but its not anywhere close to the large numbers or occasions you are suggesting.
Compared to all the providing and protecting done for family's by men over the century's, women have done bugger all.
I worked myself as a laborer and tradesman for nearly twenty years, so I know what real hard work is, and in all that time I only met two other female labourers, who worked ok, didn't have the strength of course, but still got dirty and tried, and about a dozen females doing trades that involved heavy lifting or dangerous work.
So where are all the hundreds of females working along side of men in the building industry if their so great at providing and doing the hard stuff?
Like where were they for thousands of years?
Sitting around talking and looking after kids and the house thats where.
Civilsation is man made, if all the men throughout history had just decided to not work, nothing would have got done, until the women nagged us to death to go do it, because they don't want to, its too hard and dirty for for them.

[gela]

Obviously civilisation wouldn't be what it is without men.
It wouldn't be what it is without women either.

Women can, and do work hard.
Working hard isn't about running around the block ten times.
Working hard is working for twelve hours straight, on your feet, and still being pleasant to customers.
Its raising a child, whilst working to support them.

If you think men are the only ones who are capable of working, then you are very very wrong.

Compared to all the providing and protecting done for family's by men over the century's, women have done bugger all.

You wonder why women did bugger all?
Mabe its because when the husband allowed his wife to work, she was treated as second class in the work force.
Don't sit hear and bitch about the lack of work done by females throughout history, when it was the males who were opressing them.

are you one of these history rewriter's who now have to portray women as doing all this as well, in order to fit in with modern society's screwed up views on gender roles, when we know they clearly didn't?

What are you trying to say?
You complain about the modern 'screwed up' gender roles.
Then you complain about how useless females have been throughout history.
So Anmon, what exactly do you want?
Useful, strong females? or useless motherly females?
It seems to me that the only thing you want is male superiority.

[Milton Bradley]

Wait, doesn't the title of this thread imply that there is only one problem with women today?


If that's the case, I have to disagree with the entire premise of this thread.

[Derek Wolff]

Women have their role, men have their role. Both work hard. The family unit and "opressive male dominance" was an expedient way to function. Humans are animals, hierarchy is necessary. You look at families today they do not function. The woman wants to nurture their children and keep them safe. Men want their children to succeed and rough it. Both are necessary in a family unit yet the masculinity must override feminity and require children to grow rather than play safe.

In the majority of my relationships the women I have been with willingly remain under my dominance, and attempt to change my mind rather than openly defy it. Normally I weigh their opinion, and what is correct. I do so in a mild manner and attempt to accomplish both. That is how things should be done, that way a family moves as a unit. In the end value I make the decision though. All men must value their woman's opinion. I often hear things in my relationships such as "you do things I want without me even asking" or "you are so kind and generous". It's a good balance.

As to women in the work force. Men have more aptitude in doing certain things as women have more aptitude. Neither are inferior but rather they complete eachother just as they should in a relationship.

There are always exceptions based on each relationship and person. Some men are submissive, some women dominant. Most women want their child to succeed but are very clingy, and hinders them. Some men are the same way. Most of what I speak of is stereo-type models.

Above all respect must be used for any person male or female.

You complain about the modern 'screwed up' gender roles.

Gender roles are screwed up these days.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Derek Wolff Gender roles are screwed up these days.

Totally. I see so many men walking around with babies stupidly strapped to their chests now, good one idiots, when the mugger jumps out to mug your family I'm sure he will wait as you calmly remove the straps and hand the baby to your wife, so you can defend your family without placing the baby in any danger.
I mentioned this possible problem to one of my mates girl friends and the inevitable reply was, I knew it was coming I guess, was 'the woman can fight off the mugger while her husband takes off the baby harness, you never know she may even beat up the mugger' and I was just looking at her thinking exactly when and how did you lose touch with all reality?

[Derek Wolff]

Quote by: Anmon Totally. I see so many men walking around with babies stupidly strapped to their chests now, good one idiots, when the mugger jumps out to mug your family I'm sure he will wait as you calmly remove the straps and hand the baby to your wife, so you can defend your family without placing the baby in any danger. I mentioned this possible problem to one of my mates girl friends and the inevitable reply was, I knew it was coming I guess, was 'the woman can fight off the mugger while her husband takes off the baby harness, you never know she may even beat up the mugger' and I was just looking at her thinking exactly when and how did you lose touch with all reality?

She can pull the muggers hair and bite him... Personally if I had my kid with me I'd hand over my wallet. I'm not putting my child in jeaporody for a few hundred at most.

I've known some feminists that constantly whine about male dominance then suddenly when some thing bad happens cling to a man for safety...

[Anmon]

[=Derek Wolff;496273]She can pull the muggers hair and bite him... Personally if I had my kid with me I'd hand over my wallet. I'm not putting my child in jeaporody for a few hundred at most.

Give him the money then shoot him in the back, no shame hes a scumbag anyway.

I've known some feminists that constantly whine about male dominance then suddenly when some thing bad happens cling to a man for safety..

Yeah a good dose of reality often brings out the truth whether they like it or not.

[lindsay7]

I've known some feminists that constantly whine about male dominance then suddenly when some thing bad happens cling to a man for safety...

That's not submissiveness. When are you going to realize that differences between the sexes does not equate to DOMINANT or SUBMISSIVE.

[Anmon]

Quote by: lindsay7 That's not submissiveness. When are you going to realize that differences between the sexes does not equate to DOMINANT or SUBMISSIVE.

Its the truth and you cant handle it.

[lindsay7]

Quote by: Anmon Its the truth and you cant handle it.

Thanks for that childish reply, but here's the definition of submissive :

adjective
1. inclined or willing to submit to orders or wishes of others or showing such inclination; "submissive servants"; "a submissive reply"; "replacing troublemakers with more submissive people"

Looking to your partner for safety or comfort is not submissive.

[Anmon]

Quote by: lindsay7 Thanks for that childish reply, but here's the definition of submissive : adjective 1. inclined or willing to submit to orders or wishes of others or showing such inclination; "submissive servants"; "a submissive reply"; "replacing troublemakers with more submissive people" Looking to your partner for safety or comfort is not submissive.

No you don't understand, what the original point was females complaining about men being too macho and aggressive, and trying to change them into being harmless playful idiotic puppy dogs like say the guys off 'friends' so as not to feel threatened, which is the mind set of a childish fearful woman. A feminist.
'All men are dangerous, even my husband therefore I must train him not to be dangerous, not to be himself because that terrify's me and makes him uncontrollable.'
But then what happens when the fem nut is walking around at night with her big submissive manboy in tow, an ugly situation happens and suddenly she expects him to suddenly rise up and become the big protecting man again, only problem is he's so emasculated he's too slow to react properly and gets clobbered.

[gela]

No you don't understand, what the original point was females complaining about men being too macho and aggressive, and trying to change them into being harmless playful idiotic puppy dogs like say the guys off 'friends' so as not to feel threatened, which is the mind set of a childish fearful woman. A feminist.

Never in my life have I heard a woman complain about a man being too 'macho'.
I think your looking to things to wine about.
Most women find 'machoness' attractive.

[Maryjane]

Never in my life have I heard a woman complain about a man being too 'macho'.

LOl..shall I be the first? But I don't consider them men...just insecure little boys.

[gela]

Depends what you define 'Macho' as I suppose. I thought it was more about being strong and manly then being arrogant.

Personally if I had my kid with me I'd hand over my wallet. I'm not putting my child in jeaporody for a few hundred at most.

Thats a logical descision.

Most men would probably want to fight just to prove their masculinity. Putting their family in danger in the process.

Oops, did I just make a sweeping generalization, that is degrading to a gender? What do you know, it goes both ways.

'All men are dangerous, even my husband therefore I must train him not to be dangerous, not to be himself because that terrify's me and makes him uncontrollable.' But then what happens when the fem nut is walking around at night with her big submissive manboy in tow, an ugly situation happens and suddenly she expects him to suddenly rise up and become the big protecting man again, only problem is he's so emasculated he's too slow to react properly and gets clobbered.

Your making uneducated generalizations, with a preschoolers logic.

He carries the baby. Therefore, his to emasculated to fight.

Give me one study that proves a link between dominance, and fighting ability.

Samurai's were the most obedient servants in history - but they are known for their superior fighting ability.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Maryjane LOl..shall I be the first? But I don't consider them men...just insecure little boys.

Thats typical feminist dogma designed to be spat out poisonously as all feminist mantra is, to make men feel insecure about themselves if they dare to show any physical confidence, which is very important for men to have.
Feminists are just basically insecure little girls terrified of confident men, or the possibility of them growing confident, thats why they always belittle them, its the only relationship with a man they can handle, because a fear filled man is easy to control.

[Matt W]

Thats typical feminist dogma designed to be spat out poisonously as all feminist mantra is, to make men feel insecure about themselves if they dare to show any physical confidence, which is very important for men to have.

And the above could be described as typical fear-mongering macho dogma. Try arguing from a position of logic rather than just trying to belittle the other side.

[Winter wind]

Game time.

Quote by: Derek wolff I've known some feminists that constantly whine about male dominance then suddenly when some thing bad happens cling to a man for safety...

And I've known some that haven't. That don't make it proof.

Quote by: Anmon Give him the money then shoot him in the back, no shame hes a scumbag anyway.

And a woman can't do that? You think the mantra "point and shoot" are too difficult for a woman to handle?

Its the truth and you cant handle it.

The greatest part is that the macho person in the house rarely is the dominant one. You rant and rave about the importance of being aggressive and manly, etc. You forget the downsides.
Problem one. Being macho means you are extraordinarily easy to manipulate. Hence why I said the macho person is rarely the dominant one. Once you know where their pride is, it is easy to stoke it and get whatever the hell you want.

Problem number two. Self confidence can lead to arrogence. Over-estimating yourself is disastrous. Once someone asked my friend to punch him in the gut to prove how strong he was. The tough guy was unable to sit up straight for a full hour after the punch. It was rather pathetic.

Problem number three. Manliness can lead to selfishness, since your top of the world and should be in control of everything. "Get me a beer, bitch" is a perfect example. This alienates people who don't think the world revolves around you and you lose a lot of friends.

Problem number four. Lack of common sense. This doesn't always happen, but guys who try to look tough will sometimes discard common sense in exchange for "looking tough". If you start coughing up blood, instead of saying "naw, it's nothing", you might want to go to the doctor. Because dying is not macho.

Problem number five. Face. This is big in Chinese culture, but applies to machoism. The face is everything. The image of of looking tough. This is just as superficial as the woman you complain about. The image becomes more importent to men then the substance. Muscle, hair, style of talk. None of which matter (no muscles matter, just not sculpted ones.) It's like hollowing yourself out.

There are more, but I don't want to destroy the forum. Yes, the yang/manliness is need in certain qualities. Yet you have to see the downside.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Matt W And the above could be described as typical fear-mongering macho dogma. Try arguing from a position of logic rather than just trying to belittle the other side.

How is it fear mongering macho dogma? I merely stated correctly why feminists constantly belittle men who are confident in any way.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Anmon How is it fear mongering macho dogma? I merely stated correctly why feminists constantly belittle men who are confident in any way.

Nope. You're taking it as an article of faith and stereotyping everyone who believes in women's lib. It comes across as dogma rather than a reasoned argument.

[Anmon]

=Winter wind;496631] And I've known some that haven't. That don't make it proof.

Yeah the counter argument us always predictably I know such and such can kick arse etc so your point must be void, except it seems to be common knowledge for most of the population except for the type who lives almost permanently on a uni campus, that in most situations like this the woman will let the man handle the conflict because logically he has a better chance of beating off the assailant than she does, please don't bring in your buzzwords of stereotype misogynistic thinking etc, because it holds little water in real life situations.

And a woman can't do that? You think the mantra "point and shoot" are too difficult for a woman to handle?

I didn't say it was, you have grabbed this improperly without looking at the context, if anything it would be easier for a woman to do, because the mugger wouldn't be expecting it as much.

The greatest part is that the macho person in the house rarely is the dominant one. You rant and rave about the importance of being aggressive and manly, etc.

You call it rant and rave, and label it macho not me, all I was pointing out was the everyday lack of evidence of females being as good as males in life threatening situations like being mugged, when its as clear as daylight that their not, if anyone is ranting its you guys pushing your modern day gender role casting types all the time as more appropriate when there obviously not.

How about facing the cold truth one day, that everything you believe in this regard is nothing more than politically correct nonsense.
And it is you and your pc brethren who are obsessed with dominance and submissiveness roles not us, we can see what has more commonsense in certain roles, and which sex should perform them, but you cant because politically correct people have lost all common sense, if they even possessed it to begin with.

Problem one. Being macho means you are extraordinarily easy to manipulate.

Do you have any examples for that nonsense statement?
A lot of 'macho' guys also don't mind women manipulating them, its giving power to women so they don't feel so oppressed or fearful, and a lot of guys are turned on by it, it makes them feel needed, or wanted, but its not because they are unaware as you seem to be suggesting.

Hence why I said the macho person is rarely the dominant one. Once you know where their pride is, it is easy to stoke it and get whatever the hell you want.

So you are saying, not being macho, you yourself lack any pride to stroke then?
And your morals here seem to be incredibly lacking, to deceive people like that.
Give me those' macho types' any day, at least they are straight up and honest with you.

Problem number two. Self confidence can lead to arrogence.

Of course, but experiences will temper that, comes pride first before the fall as the saying goes, but a fall teaches you where you went wrong, and you get up a better person for it.
Self confidence leads to a lot of things, mostly good.

Over-estimating yourself is disastrous. Once someone asked my friend to punch him in the gut to prove how strong he was. The tough guy was unable to sit up straight for a full hour after the punch. It was rather pathetic.

a likely story, you can recover a lot quicker from being winded than a whole hour, it usually takes 5 minutes at the most.
But your story doesn't prove that being 'a tough guy' is wrong, just that maybe your friend wasn't as tough as he thought.
And your friend who punched him, you don't seem to have any reservations about them being macho or acting out the tough guy do you?

Problem number three. Manliness can lead to selfishness, since your top of the world and should be in control of everything. "Get me a beer, bitch" is a perfect example. This alienates people who don't think the world revolves around you and you lose a lot of friends.

hahaha this is good coming from you, a lesson in manliness being possibly selfish, after you spin me a tale about manipulating someone to ''get what ever the hell you want', like that wasn't selfish was it?
'Get whatever the hell you want' oh yeah the world definitely doesn't revolve around this way of thinking does it?
Your example of 'get me a beer bitch' seems to be the common example used by feminists to stereotype any man that is confident about himself.

Problem number four. Lack of common sense. This doesn't always happen, but guys who try to look tough will sometimes discard common sense in exchange for "looking tough". If you start coughing up blood, instead of saying "naw, it's nothing", you might want to go to the doctor. Because dying is not macho.

Your problem is, you have it seems from your comments being surrounded your whole life by men who only act macho, they are not really men, men don't do that, if a situation comes along they take care of it best they can without carrying on about how great they are at fighting or something.
If I started coughing up blood I would of course go to hospital asap I'm quite aware dying isn't 'macho' you have been watching too many old movies by your childish depictions of macho men..

Problem number five. Face. This is big in Chinese culture, but applies to machoism. The face is everything. The image of of looking tough. This is just as superficial as the woman you complain about. The image becomes more importent to men then the substance. Muscle, hair, style of talk. None of which matter (no muscles matter, just not sculpted ones.) It's like hollowing yourself out.

I'm not complaining about any women as you are misleading, just stating the facts about feminist idiots.
And like I said, I'm more than aware of what talking tough and showboating is, its only done by insecure guys who want to scare the other guy away so they don't fight, and its not limited to your silly impression that guys who beef up at the gym, body sculpt are all show with nothing underneath, hollow as you put it.
Any guy can be genuinely tough, big muscled guys, sculptured guys, little thin guys, guys in between, and any guy can be the opposite as well.

There are more, but I don't want to destroy the forum. Yes, the yang/manliness is need in certain qualities. Yet you have to see the downside.

Oh your so incredibly wise, um yeah ok the yin/feminine side is also need in certain quality's, yet you also have to see a downside to it.