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fedfem · Nov 7, 2003, 05:13 pm

Left, Right, or middle, we should all be upset over this display. At least I think so. What do you think?

(CBS) Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school, ordering students to lie down in hall ways as they searched for drugs. The commando-style raid has parents questioning the wisdom of police tactics.

The raid occurred Wednesday at Stratford High School in Goose Creek, S.C. Surveillance video obtained by CBS Affiliate WCSC in Charleston shows the police waving their guns and searching lockers as students lie flat on their stomachs or sides.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/...ain582492.shtml

Impenitent · Nov 7, 2003, 05:47 pm

would you prefer another Columbine?

the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it...

dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...

fedfem · Nov 7, 2003, 05:50 pm

But neither drugs nor guns were found. This was a search without probable cause.

Unconstitutional I would say.

castille · Nov 10, 2003, 12:59 am

Who cares...let those kids shoot each other or poison each other. Too bad for them. That way they will learn some facts of life before being released into the world.

indierockboy · Nov 16, 2003, 04:56 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
would you prefer another Columbine?

the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it...

dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

despite the media storm surrounding columbine, children are statistically safer from armed assault when they are at school rather than when they are at home.

cheesemage · Nov 17, 2003, 05:56 pm

Really, what does this accomplish? Instead of giving the kids a feeling of security, wouldn't actions like this only promote fear?

Impenitent · Nov 18, 2003, 10:21 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (indierockboy,)

despite the media storm surrounding columbine, children are statistically safer from armed assault when they are at school rather than when they are at home.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

that depends on the school and on the home... statistics can show anything...

indierockboy · Nov 18, 2003, 07:19 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (indierockboy,)

despite the media storm surrounding columbine, children are statistically safer from armed assault when they are at school rather than when they are at home.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

that depends on the school and on the home... statistics can show anything...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?

Impenitent · Nov 18, 2003, 08:42 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (indierockboy,)
then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

have you ever been to watts? southern la?

some schools have metal detectors...

if all the kids were angels why worry?

a kid with a gun can be deadly... and how many unarmed drug dealers do you know?

indierockboy · Nov 19, 2003, 05:46 am

have you ever been to watts? southern la?

have you ever been to the school in question? do you have any actual evidence, besides your rhetoric, that demonstrates that this school was dangerous? do you actually have anything, besides refuting my posts with additional rhetoric?

some schools have metal detectors...

so do airliners, some bus stations, and many other places. a metal detector is not an indication of anything beyond taking preventative measures.

if all the kids were angels why worry?

i'm quite capable of putting words in my own mouth, so don't do it for me.

a kid with a gun can be deadly... and how many unarmed drug dealers do you know?

i've never said that a kid with a gun isn't dangerous. please stop taking what i say out of context and putting words in my mouth. how about, instead of spouting more rhetoric, you actually address my question: "then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?" because apparantly statistics referring to criminal activity are not effective means of gauging criminal activity.

also, all of the drug dealers that i have personally known are and have always been unarmed.

castille · Nov 19, 2003, 07:21 am

Gee, you must've known some really angelic drug dealers! eheh

The question is, why are we opposing drug dealing? Isn't drugs simply another form of entertainment (aside from times when some drug-fucked moron runs his car into some other bloke's car)? And isn't stamping on drugs making the situation worse (and jacking up drug prices)?

We should be feeding kids drugs....give them real experience so they are allowed to make their own choices.

Impenitent · Nov 19, 2003, 12:38 pm

irb

"have you ever been to watts? southern la?

have you ever been to the school in question? do you have any actual evidence, besides your rhetoric, that demonstrates that this school was dangerous? do you actually have anything, besides refuting my posts with additional rhetoric?"

you asked what evidence I had that warranted the force used by the police... the actions of the drug dealers in schools in those areas is that evidence

"a kid with a gun can be deadly... and how many unarmed drug dealers do you know?

i've never said that a kid with a gun isn't dangerous. please stop taking what i say out of context and putting words in my mouth. how about, instead of spouting more rhetoric, you actually address my question: "then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?" because apparantly statistics referring to criminal activity are not effective means of gauging criminal activity."

out of context? no, you claimed they were safer in schools as if their guns would vanish upon entering the school... that is the measure of danger, an armed kid...

Anarchist Patriot · Nov 30, 2003, 05:12 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
would you prefer another Columbine?

the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it...

dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Yep, teach them kids what its like out there. Now that we have the patriot act, we have to let the young-ens know what they will be seeing more and more of in the future.

Das Vite, mine der kinders.. you have der New World Order....

Seig Heil!

Impenitent · Nov 30, 2003, 04:07 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
would you prefer another Columbine?

the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it...

dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Yep, teach them kids what its like out there. Now that we have the patriot act, we have to let the young-ens know what they will be seeing more and more of in the future.

Das Vite, mine der kinders.. you have der New World Order....

Seig Heil!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

LMAO!!!!

Waychel · Dec 13, 2003, 05:18 pm

If the police had reason to suspect that drugs were at this school, then that was probable cause enough. That's not the "Patriot Act" - that's how things have always been in this country.

I think the police here were a bit TOO extreme in this circumstance, but I also think that un-announced searches like this aren't done often enough. IMO, the main reason drugs are such a major issue right now is because kids don't have to worry about being caught. If they have drugs, they can keep them in their backpack, locker or pockets and not have to worry much. If they deal drugs and have a gun, they can keep it in the trunk of their car when they go into the school. There should be more un-announced searches like this and cops should not only have dogs check out students/lockers, but cars sitting in the parking lot as well. They're not doing enough as-is.

When I was in HS, I knew of 5 guys who dealed drugs (marijuana, exstacy, etc.) at the school and in the parking lot, who also kept guns in their cars. Pretty amazing considering my HS only had about 500-800 kids and I live out in bumblefuck, nowhere. I can only imagine what it must be like in places like Detroit or NYC.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
"We received reports from staff members and students that there was a lot of drug activity. Recently we busted a student for having over 300 plus prescription pills. The volume and the amount of marijuana coming into the school is unacceptable," said principal George McCrackin.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Police didn't find any criminals in the armed sweep, but they say K-9 dogs smelled drugs on a dozen backpacks.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
The paper quoted Lt. Dave Aarons of the Goose Creek Police Department as saying that the suspected drug dealers appeared to be knowledgeable about where the school surveillance cameras were. He said he watched school surveillance tapes from four days that showed students congregating under cameras, periodically walking into a bathroom with different students and coming out moments later.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The Devil · Dec 14, 2003, 02:49 pm

This, even if there were drugs, is going too far. People need to remember that the job of the police is to "serve and protect", not to "oppress and strike fear into children".

Waychel · Dec 14, 2003, 03:42 pm

Even if they're protecting the students from themselves?

white rice · Dec 14, 2003, 07:41 pm

How much fear do they need to give me? If I'm speeding down Watts by 15 miles over the limit, is the officer allowed to order me to drop on the floor so he can cuff me in order to see my license and registration?

Waychel · Dec 14, 2003, 09:51 pm

I never said I didn't find it "extreme" in this circumstance. But I still think police should regularly do searches at schools.

Dec 16, 2003, 10:54 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,)
Even if they're protecting the students from themselves?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

That's not an educators job. I think they should lead by example, punish those who get caught, and not exempt the school from the rights we emphasize in the the real world.

Nov 7, 2003, 05:47 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	would you prefer another Columbine? the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it... dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 10, 2003, 12:59 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Who cares...let those kids shoot each other or poison each other. Too bad for them. That way they will learn some facts of life before being released into the world. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Nov 16, 2003, 04:56 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
indierockboy Molten Ash Location: ontario canada Posts: 104	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) would you prefer another Columbine? the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it... dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> despite the media storm surrounding columbine, children are statistically safer from armed assault when they are at school rather than when they are at home. http://www.autophobic.net/tmesis/sig.gif

Nov 18, 2003, 10:21 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (indierockboy,) despite the media storm surrounding columbine, children are statistically safer from armed assault when they are at school rather than when they are at home.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> that depends on the school and on the home... statistics can show anything... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 18, 2003, 07:19 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
indierockboy Molten Ash Location: ontario canada Posts: 104	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (indierockboy,) despite the media storm surrounding columbine, children are statistically safer from armed assault when they are at school rather than when they are at home.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> that depends on the school and on the home... statistics can show anything...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response? http://www.autophobic.net/tmesis/sig.gif

Nov 7, 2003, 05:13 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	Left, Right, or middle, we should all be upset over this display. At least I think so. What do you think? (CBS) Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school, ordering students to lie down in hall ways as they searched for drugs. The commando-style raid has parents questioning the wisdom of police tactics. The raid occurred Wednesday at Stratford High School in Goose Creek, S.C. Surveillance video obtained by CBS Affiliate WCSC in Charleston shows the police waving their guns and searching lockers as students lie flat on their stomachs or sides. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/...ain582492.shtml

Nov 7, 2003, 05:50 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	But neither drugs nor guns were found. This was a search without probable cause. Unconstitutional I would say.

Nov 17, 2003, 05:56 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
cheesemage Molten Ash Posts: 57	Really, what does this accomplish? Instead of giving the kids a feeling of security, wouldn't actions like this only promote fear?

Nov 18, 2003, 08:42 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (indierockboy,) then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> have you ever been to watts? southern la? some schools have metal detectors... if all the kids were angels why worry? a kid with a gun can be deadly... and how many unarmed drug dealers do you know? "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 19, 2003, 05:46 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
indierockboy Molten Ash Location: ontario canada Posts: 104	have you ever been to watts? southern la? have you ever been to the school in question? do you have any actual evidence, besides your rhetoric, that demonstrates that this school was dangerous? do you actually have anything, besides refuting my posts with additional rhetoric? some schools have metal detectors... so do airliners, some bus stations, and many other places. a metal detector is not an indication of anything beyond taking preventative measures. if all the kids were angels why worry? i'm quite capable of putting words in my own mouth, so don't do it for me. a kid with a gun can be deadly... and how many unarmed drug dealers do you know? i've never said that a kid with a gun isn't dangerous. please stop taking what i say out of context and putting words in my mouth. how about, instead of spouting more rhetoric, you actually address my question: "then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?" because apparantly statistics referring to criminal activity are not effective means of gauging criminal activity. also, all of the drug dealers that i have personally known are and have always been unarmed. http://www.autophobic.net/tmesis/sig.gif

Nov 19, 2003, 07:21 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Gee, you must've known some really angelic drug dealers! eheh The question is, why are we opposing drug dealing? Isn't drugs simply another form of entertainment (aside from times when some drug-fucked moron runs his car into some other bloke's car)? And isn't stamping on drugs making the situation worse (and jacking up drug prices)? We should be feeding kids drugs....give them real experience so they are allowed to make their own choices. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Nov 19, 2003, 12:38 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	irb "have you ever been to watts? southern la? have you ever been to the school in question? do you have any actual evidence, besides your rhetoric, that demonstrates that this school was dangerous? do you actually have anything, besides refuting my posts with additional rhetoric?" you asked what evidence I had that warranted the force used by the police... the actions of the drug dealers in schools in those areas is that evidence "a kid with a gun can be deadly... and how many unarmed drug dealers do you know? i've never said that a kid with a gun isn't dangerous. please stop taking what i say out of context and putting words in my mouth. how about, instead of spouting more rhetoric, you actually address my question: "then by what measure, exactly, do you consider schools to be so dangerous as to warrant this kind of police response?" because apparantly statistics referring to criminal activity are not effective means of gauging criminal activity." out of context? no, you claimed they were safer in schools as if their guns would vanish upon entering the school... that is the measure of danger, an armed kid... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Nov 30, 2003, 05:12 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Anarchist Patriot Molten Ash Posts: 143	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) would you prefer another Columbine? the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it... dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yep, teach them kids what its like out there. Now that we have the patriot act, we have to let the young-ens know what they will be seeing more and more of in the future. Das Vite, mine der kinders.. you have der New World Order.... Seig Heil!

Nov 30, 2003, 04:07 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) would you prefer another Columbine? the police have a job to do and they need to protect themselves while doing it... dealing drugs and carring guns (in schools) are serious crimes and they most always go together...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yep, teach them kids what its like out there. Now that we have the patriot act, we have to let the young-ens know what they will be seeing more and more of in the future. Das Vite, mine der kinders.. you have der New World Order.... Seig Heil!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> LMAO!!!! "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Dec 13, 2003, 05:18 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	If the police had reason to suspect that drugs were at this school, then that was probable cause enough. That's not the "Patriot Act" - that's how things have always been in this country. I think the police here were a bit TOO extreme in this circumstance, but I also think that un-announced searches like this aren't done often enough. IMO, the main reason drugs are such a major issue right now is because kids don't have to worry about being caught. If they have drugs, they can keep them in their backpack, locker or pockets and not have to worry much. If they deal drugs and have a gun, they can keep it in the trunk of their car when they go into the school. There should be more un-announced searches like this and cops should not only have dogs check out students/lockers, but cars sitting in the parking lot as well. They're not doing enough as-is. When I was in HS, I knew of 5 guys who dealed drugs (marijuana, exstacy, etc.) at the school and in the parking lot, who also kept guns in their cars. Pretty amazing considering my HS only had about 500-800 kids and I live out in bumblefuck, nowhere. I can only imagine what it must be like in places like Detroit or NYC. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by "We received reports from staff members and students that there was a lot of drug activity. Recently we busted a student for having over 300 plus prescription pills. The volume and the amount of marijuana coming into the school is unacceptable," said principal George McCrackin.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Police didn't find any criminals in the armed sweep, but they say K-9 dogs smelled drugs on a dozen backpacks.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by The paper quoted Lt. Dave Aarons of the Goose Creek Police Department as saying that the suspected drug dealers appeared to be knowledgeable about where the school surveillance cameras were. He said he watched school surveillance tapes from four days that showed students congregating under cameras, periodically walking into a bathroom with different students and coming out moments later.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Dec 14, 2003, 02:49 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
The Devil Molten Ash Location: Canada Posts: 55	This, even if there were drugs, is going too far. People need to remember that the job of the police is to "serve and protect", not to "oppress and strike fear into children".

Dec 14, 2003, 03:42 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Even if they're protecting the students from themselves? Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Dec 14, 2003, 07:41 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	How much fear do they need to give me? If I'm speeding down Watts by 15 miles over the limit, is the officer allowed to order me to drop on the floor so he can cuff me in order to see my license and registration? Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Dec 14, 2003, 09:51 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	I never said I didn't find it "extreme" in this circumstance. But I still think police should regularly do searches at schools. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Dec 16, 2003, 10:54 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
dotComa Guest Posts: n/a	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,) Even if they're protecting the students from themselves?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That's not an educators job. I think they should lead by example, punish those who get caught, and not exempt the school from the rights we emphasize in the the real world.