Parents controlling kids

[Halofan48]

This debate started to appear in another thread, so i'm making it here.

This focuses on whether parents should have complete and utter control of their kids. Here's an argument that appears to be in favor of this. If not, please say so.

heres the page

Quote by Chancellor However, children are children: it´s not their place to be making such decisions for themselves. When they become adults then they may make such decisions. Until then, they are under the sovereign control of their parents.

Well, the mere fact that you're children makes you less than adults

which was made in response to:

Quote by: Halofan48 We aren't less than you are.

Stupid remarks like that one is exactly why you should not be allowed to decide anything for yourselves.

was in response to my post of:

We should be able to believe in what we want.

Strict rule might not be a bad idea.

and

There was a time in some societies when rebellious children were stoned to death: maybe it's time to return to that practice.

were responses to my comments of:

, and theres little you can do to stop us without very strict rule.

and

And even then, we have our ways.

I think we should have the right to make our own choices for stuff like religion and that we aren't a lower form of life because we're younger.
We should have rights to our own opinions and not be forced to believe something we disagree with.

And also, we're the ones who will run everything one day so beware


anyway, what do you think?

[HelioPrime]

Well a parent can be held legally responsibly for the actions of a child. So yes I think parents do have some legal say over their kids. If you run away they can still haul you back against your will for instance.

[Tycoon]

There are three important factors of parenting.

A. Provide material goods and shelter until child can get such things themself.
B. Prepare child to support themself and run a home.
C. Teach child morals and ethics.

I think beyond that a parent should not try to influence their child much. If a child thinks they can have a later bedtime then their parents should let them stay up later until it becomes a problem, for example not getting to school on time.

[nerdvincent]

Here is a little cute and worthless sentence I created: parents shoul teach kids how to think and not what to think.

[gela]

Kids won't learn from advice. We learn from experiences.

Controlling teenagers either leads to rebellious teenagers who will meaninglessly rebel against all authority for the sake of rebellion.
Or it leads to 18 year olds who can't decide things, or think for themselves. Completely dependent adults.

[grandpa]

Quote by: gela Kids won't learn from advice. We learn from experiences.

Well, advice is an experience, so there is no inherent contradiction. When it comes to learning, some of the experiences we need are huge, others come from words of wisdom, from mistakes and from built-in intuition corroborated by other experiences and evidence.

Grandpa h.

[Halofan48]

But making it so children can't even believe what they want to, and instead have to believe what their parents believe is silly. It also can deny us our right to freedom of religion and speech.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Halofan48 But making it so children can't even believe what they want to, and instead have to believe what their parents believe is silly. It also can deny us our right to freedom of religion and speech.

Like those home-schooled kids being taught young earth creationism, that global warming is bullshit or that Harry Potter is the Devil?

[barelypolitical]

I think that parents should guide their children in the right direction, impose rules and wisdom with meanings. No pointless punishments. I guess I can only partially relate because my parents are divorced. My father, is a really rational, never tempermental man who encourages me to make my own decisions about religion. He even said that one of the things he was most proud of my for is that I use the ability to think for myself.

On the other hand, I have a rebellious little sister. She does anything she wants anyways without thinking of the consequences. I think parents have a right to punish and impose their beliefs for the long term benefit for the child.

There should be a happy-medium where kids are encouraged to accept their parents beliefs, but also able to question it! That is how we learn, after all :)

If you control a kid too much with no real reason other than taking advantage of parental power, that kid won't know what to do with their life and take advantages of all the new freedoms they have to a harmful extreme. Like an animal going wild after being locked up in a cage...

[barelypolitical]

Quote by: nerdvincent Like those home-schooled kids being taught young earth creationism, that global warming is bullshit or that Harry Potter is the Devil?

You saw "Jesus Camp" ? Hahah it's horrible.

[Halofan48]

Quote by: Nerdvincent Like those home-schooled kids being taught young earth creationism, that global warming is bullshit or that Harry Potter is the Devil?

That's my point, parents would be able to force their children to believe that sort of thing or something else that they child may not want to believe in.

[The Dunedan]

Here's a clue, kid. People always influence others. People always try to convince others of the rightness of their own views. Parents do it, so do teachers, so does everyone you encounter.

That's my point, parents would be able to force their children to believe that sort of thing or something else that they child may not want to believe in.

Just like the public schools do right now, every day. Don't believe me? Try bringing up Pearl Harbour in your next history class; about how the U.S. knew it was coming months in advance but did nothing in order to protect the Ultra/Enigma secret and in order to have a plausible excuse for entering the European war to rescue Britain, our ally. Trying bringing up the firebombing of Coventry (if the Publik Skools even teach about such things), which Churchill allowed for precisely the same reasons. The public schools would have you believe that Pearl was a surprise and Coventry and unlooked-for atrocity, both of which are patently false. However, for reasons of nationalism and because the winners write the history books, this is the "truth" of American public ed. Try going against the overwhelmingly leftist and -always- statist bias of the public schools, and see how easily your grades (and future) can suffer.

One pair of parents can brainwash only their own kids. Public education lets a handful of people who share a paradigmatic, ideological viewpoint brainwash hundreds of kids every year, assembly-line fashion. I know the greater of two evils when I survive it.

[Halofan48]

We also knew the 9/11 was going to happen, years in advance. Just because we have some evidence doesn't mean we can act on it. If another nation thought we were about to attack, they'd prepare their military. If we didn't plan on it, all we would see is the military of another country coming to action with its gun pointed at us, making it more likely to attack. Also, i don't have U.S. history covering the last 100 years this year. My sister has had it. She said how there was evidence suggesting an attack from Japan was imminent (I remember, she wouldn't leave me alone about it). I've also seen documentaries showing patrols of carriers and destroyers being sent out, and the testimony that they were to be on alert. So please provide evidence that all teachers would do as you said.

anyway, back on topic. Yes, you can suggest things, and try to help, but forcing them instead of suggesting won't do anything. If we don't want to believe something, it's our right to do so. Yes, you can try to keep your kids out of trouble, thats ok. But saying that they have to be christian or they have to be a democrat, or they have to be anti-abortion isn't ok, because your denying them the right to choose what they want to believe.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: barelypolitical You saw "Jesus Camp" ? Hahah it's horrible.

Well yes I did, but I personally know a gal in this situation. I recently showed her the real world, and now she thanks me for opening her eyes.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: The Dunedan Try bringing up Pearl Harbour in your next history class, assembly-line fashion.

Or the murder of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. Or the dark pages of the southern niggas' situation back in the 50's, not-that-long ago. Or how the USA loved the Cuban dictator Batista, and thus hated Castro for taking his place (that's why I laugh when Bush is crying for Cuba to become "democratix").
I can enumerate hundred of similar cases, but it's not the place for it.

So yeah, parents and kids...

[grandpa]

Quote by: nerdvincent Or the murder of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. Or the dark pages of the southern niggas' situation back in the 50's, not-that-long ago.

Ugh. Be careful throwing that term around. It could turn into another "Niggas vs. Black People" thread.

Grandpa h.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Halofan48 That's my point, parents would be able to force their children to believe that sort of thing or something else that they child may not want to believe in.

Well... short of brainwashing or tactics like that, nobody can "make" you believe anything. They can require you to live by a certain set of rules, but they can't affect what goes on inside your head (typically).

Plenty of us endured miserable childhoods due to the private thoughts which we chose to keep to ourselves.

I suppose it's easier to blame our parents than to do the hard work of deciding what we believe about the myriad things in the universe there are to have opinions about, though...

[Tycoon]

We have to be influenced by our parents in many ways. You might find out later that you like French more than English and take French classes to learn the language, but originally you had to be taught something.

I want to compare it to the idea of "we are what we eat". If you were brought up Christian, but decided you don't like Christianity... you really are only deciding that because once again you are influenced by the people around you.

For example, you might decide you don't like Christianity because the other Christians preach intolerance. Or because you don't like the ideas that Christianity was founded on by other people.

[zcbt3]

What you need to understand, Halofan48, is that the reason why your parents don't let you go on wild teen rampages is because they love you. If they didn't love you, they'd let you do whatever you pleased and that would make for a much less pleasant life than the one you have now. Parents don't take charge of their children because they're megalomaniacs, they do it for the simple reason that sometime in the very near future, you will be running the world.

[Halofan48]

I'm fine with denial of things like borrowing the car. But when you aren't even allowed to have your own beliefs is when I have a problem.