Parents controlling kids

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Halofan48 I'm fine with denial of things like borrowing the car. But when you aren't even allowed to have your own beliefs is when I have a problem.

How are you denied "having" your own beliefs? Discouraged from discussing them at the dinner table, perhaps, but that's another topic.

[Kamehameha34]

Loose parental monitoring leads to children with a strong - and often crippling sense of self-righteousness.

Take me for instance, I have to wait at least 5 minute after being asked to do something before I do it. Stupid pride.

[Whilletal]

Quote by: Halofan48 But making it so children can't even believe what they want to, and instead have to believe what their parents believe is silly. It also can deny us our right to freedom of religion and speech.

No one can force you to believe anything. That is something only you have control over. However I think if you are so eager to embrace all of the rights of adulthood then your parents should have no further obligation to you. So my advice is to move out asap, acquire a job so you can pay for housing, food, utility's, car, insurance for said car, health insurance, clothing, entertainment and so forth and so on. Oh and don't forget at least 40k for a BA in whatever so you can quit working at the burger joint or jiffy lube for $7 an hour.

[Halofan48]

Ok, on the OP, i presented arguments from another member saying that parents should have complete control over what their kids believe. I think that, yes, parents have the right to try and keep us out of trouble. But being able to have control over what someone believes is silly.

Look at it like this: Theres a family with so-and-so religion. Their son decides to change to a different religion. Yet his parents have the right to keep him from doing this and can punish him for it.

that i think is wrong

[grandpa]

Quote by: Halofan48 Ok, on the OP, i presented arguments from another member saying that parents should have complete control over what their kids believe. I think that, yes, parents have the right to try and keep us out of trouble.

Parents often teach kids outright lies, and it goes beyond getting them to put out cookies for Santa.

Grandpa h.

[Court463]

My thoughts on this are that the parents have all rights over there children except over what they believe in, spirtually and politically.

And I think that to say that because were under the age of 18 were all stupid and need to be controlled is outright dumb. A better idea would be to show examples of things and than leave the children their own room to think and believe, otherwise we destroy all the free thinkers and philosphers by age 10.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Court463 A better idea would be to show examples of things and than leave the children their own room to think and believe, otherwise we destroy all the free thinkers and philosphers by age 10.

There's only so much room for this. In some things parents have to step in, or there won't *be* children past the age of 10, freethinking or otherwise.

I run into a brick wall on this whole line of thought after a certain point. "Should" parents "brainwash" their children? I don't know. My own rebellious-on-purpose upbringing makes me want to say "NO NO NO!!!!!!!" but in reality, we all raise our kids probably 99% by example and 1% what we say, so the effect is going to be there whether we want it or not, and geez, I can understand parents with strong convictions wanting their kids to grow up with those same convictions. I mean, there are lots of things I am passionate about, to the point that I can't fathom how everybody doesn't see it my way... weirdos... It is *absolutely* a struggle to find the balance in "this is so important... I MUST impart this" and "My kids deserve to grow up and make their own choices."

I guess lucky for my kids (lol) one of those things I am so adamant about is I believe in raising my kids to be able to "think", even though it makes my life as a parent *way* more complicated than my associates who are constantly threatening their kids with eternal pain, suffering and damnation if they don't <fill in the blank>, my major consolation being hopefully my kids will grow up and move out and live independent lives and not need me to think for them. SO maybe that struggle is a good thing. Even if it is causing me enormous amounts of sleeplessness and grey hair.

[Court463]

I can agree with you on that, there is a fine line between anarchy and letting you kids be indepent. And I totally understand not letting children do things for their own saftey but their is also a fine line between being protective and censorships. so its a delicate thing trying to find balance in raising kids correctly.

Look at me I'm 16 and debating about good parenting methods, god forbid I ever need them.

[Winter wind]

Right now I'm not to upset about passing your ideals onto your kids. Jesus camp is extreme, but that's not my main concern.

My concern is how parents will let pride get in the way of listening to their kid. Thats were "because i said so" comes from. No, you don't want to argue something for hours when your kid is being unfair, but you should always give a reason for each action, and always practice what you preach. Also, the stricter you are on your kid the less compelled they will be to listen, or even worse, the less compelled they will be to act without you.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: Winter wind Thats were "because i said so" comes from. .

Sometimes "because I said so" comes from sheer unadulterated exhaustion combined with the need to ensure kids' safety.

IN theory that's eventually followed by a discussion of the rationale behind why the rules are where they are, but I don't always have time for a 2 hour dialogue about why the kids aren't allowed to watch slasher movies.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: janedoe Sometimes "because I said so" comes from sheer unadulterated exhaustion combined with the need to ensure kids' safety.

Thats ok, but there should always be a goo

[gela]

Well a parent can be held legally responsibly for the actions of a child. So yes I think parents do have some legal say over their kids. If you run away they can still haul you back against your will for instance.

Well... short of brainwashing or tactics like that, nobody can "make" you believe anything. They can require you to live by a certain set of rules, but they can't affect what goes on inside your head (typically).

No one can force you to believe anything. That is something only you have control over. However I think if you are so eager to embrace all of the rights of adulthood then your parents should have no further obligation to you. So my advice is to move out asap, acquire a job so you can pay for housing, food, utility's, car, insurance for said car, health insurance, clothing, entertainment and so forth and so on. Oh and don't forget at least 40k for a BA in whatever so you can quit working at the burger joint or jiffy lube for $7 an hour

This debate stemmed from another one about home schooling.

A point was made against home schooling, that kids need to go out and meet other people, expierience other beliefs, and have a diverse variety of role models.
Without this social interaction that is found at school, kids would only have there parents. The parents would have complete control over a kids belief system, and the kid won't understand any other system of belief.

So yes, kids definitly should have the opportunity to expierience the world for themselves, and make their own beliefs.

[Kizzume]

Quote by: gela This debate stemmed from another one about home schooling. A point was made against home schooling, that kids need to go out and meet other people, expierience other beliefs, and have a diverse variety of role models. Without this social interaction that is found at school, kids would only have there parents. The parents would have complete control over a kids belief system, and the kid won't understand any other system of belief. So yes, kids definitly should have the opportunity to expierience the world for themselves, and make their own beliefs.

I agree with this post wholeheartedly.

[JaneDoe321]

Oh, yes in that regard I absolutely agree. I think parents who think they sheltering their kids during the "formative years" are really just setting them up as easy targets for all the "evils" they thought they were protecting them from.

TO clarify, I am not advocating throwing kids to the wolves right out of the womb, but age appropriate discussions are really *necessary*, IMO.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: gela Kids won't learn from advice. We learn from experiences.

Another example of why you should not be considered the equal of adults. You don't have to experience murder to know that murder is wrong. You don't have to experience being stolen from to know that it's wrong to steal. So, don't give me this "kids won't learn from advice" nonsense. You learn from advice more than you realize. Besides, one of the reasons many parents give advice is so that you don't have to experience certain things.

Controlling teenagers either leads to rebellious teenagers who will meaninglessly rebel against all authority for the sake of rebellion. Or it leads to 18 year olds who can't decide things, or think for themselves. Completely dependent adults.

Not controlling teenagers leads to rebellious, undisciplined adults who will never be able to hold down a job or keep themselves out of jail.

[Fangrim]

Quote by: Halofan48 anyway, back on topic. Yes, you can suggest things, and try to help, but forcing them instead of suggesting won't do anything. If we don't want to believe something, it's our right to do so. Yes, you can try to keep your kids out of trouble, thats ok. But saying that they have to be christian or they have to be a democrat, or they have to be anti-abortion isn't ok, because your denying them the right to choose what they want to believe.

Why should children have the right to choose their beliefs?

[Kizzume]

Quote by: gela This debate stemmed from another one about home schooling. A point was made against home schooling, that kids need to go out and meet other people, expierience other beliefs, and have a diverse variety of role models. Without this social interaction that is found at school, kids would only have there parents. The parents would have complete control over a kids belief system, and the kid won't understand any other system of belief. So yes, kids definitly should have the opportunity to expierience the world for themselves, and make their own beliefs.

Quote by: Fangrim Why should children have the right to choose their beliefs?

Because some beliefs are really messed up. Imagine Phelps' kids.

[Halofan48]

Quote by: Chancellor Not controlling teenagers leads to rebellious, undisciplined adults who will never be able to hold down a job or keep themselves out of jail.

Can you prove this? Perhaps in some cases, but i've seen kids who are controlled very strictly behave in a very aggressive manner.

Quote by: Fangrim Why should children have the right to choose their beliefs?

Because we are people too and as people we have the right to freedom of religion protected by the constitution. If we don't want to believe some thing or want to believe something else, it's our right.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Halofan48 Can you prove this? Perhaps in some cases, but i've seen kids who are controlled very strictly behave in a very aggressive manner.

Which could very well lead to a "discipline action" that triggers further aggression.

Grandpa h.

[Kite]

Quote by: Chancellor Another example of why you should not be considered the equal of adults. You don't have to experience murder to know that murder is wrong. You don't have to experience being stolen from to know that it's wrong to steal. So, don't give me this "kids won't learn from advice" nonsense. You learn from advice more than you realize. Besides, one of the reasons many parents give advice is so that you don't have to experience certain things. Not controlling teenagers leads to rebellious, undisciplined adults who will never be able to hold down a job or keep themselves out of jail.

I think the fear is that absolute control opens the way to allow those types of parents that wish to live out the childhood that they wanted through their own children to do so. Controlling what time they go to bed, how much junk food they eat and when they get to drive and when they have to be home is one thing. Forcing them to join Football when they want to join chess club because you want them to be a pro football player is another. Rules and guidelines are essential to keep kids safe and out of trouble, but controlling every single aspect of their life is just plain wrong.