"I am right and you are wrong" attitude.

[grandpa]

How do you think this affects society?

I'm guilty of it from time to time, but some people really are far out in this regard. An obvious example is Bill O'Reilly and his mic-cutting shenanigans. How did the bar get set so low that such a pompous host actually has fans? Of course, I don't mean to make this into "the Bill O'reilly-bashing thread," but he's just a great symbol for what I'm speaking of.

Please discuss. Bring personal examples into the fray if you like.

Grandpa h.

[HelioPrime]

It's all across the forums. I'm guilty of it just as much as anyone.

Like if I said the US is a democracy someone might come running and scream NOOO CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC YOU SOCIALIST FOOL!!!

No matter how you try to discus the word democracy their right and I'm wrong.

[grandpa]

Quote by: HelioPrime It's all across the forums. I'm guilty of it just as much as anyone.

Yes, and maybe this thread will have a positive impact in this regard. Whenever I'm guilty of this, I know it doesn't solve the problem but it's the only way that I found of getting around the problem.
I wouldn't say I'm the most notorious for this, but it happens. Most often I'm simply being skeptical.

Grandpa h.

[Chaossaber314]

While I admittedly am also guilty of this, the mindset seems the most prevalent in the libertarian and conspiracy groups which have almost the tagline of "We know something that you sheeple don't because we're just so smart."

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 While I admittedly am also guilty of this, the mindset seems the most prevalent in the libertarian and conspiracy groups which have almost the tagline of "We know something that you sheeple don't because we're just so smart."

I've noticed that as well, and it really can turn people off. Of course, a problem here is that there truly are some very gullible people out here, and I've mentioned this repeatedly through my career as a debater. The so-called "9-11 skeptics" are among the worst in this regard. I've honestly seen more open-mindedness from Klan sympathizers than from some of these people (in high school, I actually knew some young racists, unfortunately).

At the same time, we shouldn't instantly dismiss everything people with this attitude say. that may be why they are so bullheaded in the first place. That being said, I usually crack a smile when people say "Sheeple." It never ceases to be a clever expression, at least in my opinion.

Grandpa h.

[Domino]

I've noticed, in life and on forums, that people tend to take disagreement as a personal attack. It's especially bad in person, because you're not allowed the time to cool off before responding. You give someone directions, someone says you got a street name wrong, and suddenly your glands are telling you its time to fight or flight. We have responses from our distant past that are wildly inappropriate, now, and only hamper our best efforts toward improvement. This is why I think all forms of debate are best handled through text.

Of course, in my opinion, there's no excuse for ever typing a word in anger. We have the time to do it right, so let's.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: grandpa That being said, I usually crack a smile when people say "Sheeple." It never ceases to be a clever expression, at least in my opinion.

Clever? I find it dismissive and moronic.

It's usually hurled by anyone who thinks they are "in the know" when really they are just nuts.

[Jack]

I submit it comes stems from the difficulty, and in some cases the inability, to separate factual statements from opinion. The most popular topics here are thin on fact and full of opinion. We may feel we have ample support for our opinions, but they remain just that.

Our opinions are so integral to our identity and personality, I can empathize with those who take their opinions being challenged personally. But in an internet debate forum, we aren't putting our credibility on trial. Most of us know next to nothing about each other save the opinions we express. Perhaps they're genuine, perhaps they're not. It's not a requirement of the forum that you present your authentic views on the topics. What we should be doing here is arguing our side of the debate as intelligently and with as much supporting evidence as we can muster while abiding by the forum rules and keeping our tempers in check. There are few topics that lend themselves to a "right or wrong" resolution. We should strive to defend our opinions better than the opposition can defend theirs. That doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong. It's more a matter of who can debate more effectively.

[Tycoon]

Yes, I would say that this attitude stems when other people support ignorant statements with their own opinions but no facts and those arguing against them become frustrated.

[lsbskins1]

Oh, I freely admit I take the "I'm right and you are wrong" attitude on most ocassions. (Just look at my tag down there!) That is because I would not be debating someone if I did not think they were wrong in some way. One can be certain they are correct and still be civil, though. I try to be civil. But, alas...I am sure I am right about this...I have failed in that endevor on occasion.

[Technosoul]

Davy Crockett said in that Disney movie "make sure you are right, then go ahead and take action".

I do not know anything about the talk show host you mentioned.

It is simply a matter of if you feel you are the student, or the teacher.

Now if some debater makes a logical objection to my "right viewpoint" then I will be the first to admit it was wrong. Or at least I will doubt my self until I can think of the right response to that objection. (unless I am just having fun with debaters).

I do not think you must humble your self to admit that someone else has a more correct view then you do. On the other hand I see nothing wrong with trusting your own knowledge and experience relative to a topic under debate, but if it is just our opinon then we should add that to our comments. In my opion.

And beware of getting trapped in an ego contest.

[toodyay]

As an Australian who is new to American politics, I find it very difficult to debate an issue with someone who has already made their mind up that I'm a republican/democrat or whatever because of my opinion on one issue.
I'm not going to apologies because I believe in Universal health care or a tough stance on illegal immigrants or pulling out of Iraq, my views are mine because I've weighed up the information I had and made up my own mind. I don't need a politician or political party to tell me how I should think.
If someone has a view on a particular issue that differs from mine, I want to hear it, maybe they are right.

[grandpa]

Quote by: toodyay As an Australian who is new to American politics, I find it very difficult to debate an issue with someone who has already made their mind up that I'm a republican/democrat or whatever because of my opinion on one issue. I'm not going to apologies because I believe in Universal health care or a tough stance on illegal immigrants or pulling out of Iraq, my views are mine because I've weighed up the information I had and made up my own mind.

So long as you don't dwell too much on those "Think of the children!" type arguments.

Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: HelioPrime It's all across the forums. I'm guilty of it just as much as anyone. Like if I said the US is a democracy someone might come running and scream NOOO CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC YOU SOCIALIST FOOL!!! No matter how you try to discus the word democracy their right and I'm wrong.

Well, you are wrong in this case; so, it's a bad example.

But getting to the original topic of this thread, I'm so sick of people trying to be so damned apologetic about what they believe! You and I disagree about a lot of things, and I might be inclined to think you're an unamerican socialist that would be much more comfortable living in Europe, but at least you're willing to assert your beliefs regardless of the criticisms you receive.

Believe what you believe and don't apologize for believing it!

[Morality Games]

I've noticed, in life and on forums, that people tend to take disagreement as a personal attack.

Disagreements are personal attacks. Something becomes 'personal' the instant you become emotionally attatched to it. People are criticizing ideas you feel affection for, so they are attacking you personally.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: grandpa I'm guilty of it from time to time, but some people really are far out in this regard. An obvious example is Bill O'Reilly and his mic-cutting shenanigans. How did the bar get set so low that such a pompous host actually has fans?

Isn't it obvious? Americans love watching ignorant jackasses spout off about shit. Think about the people you know who are the most popular. They're the guys who are always running their mouths about something, whether its well-considered or not.

[Jack]

Quote by: Morality Games Disagreements are personal attacks. Something becomes 'personal' the instant you become emotionally attatched to it. People are criticizing ideas you feel affection for, so they are attacking you personally.

In the context of this forum, disagreements are not personal attacks. The rules are quite explicit. I respect anyone's right to hold any opinion. I'm not obliged to agree with or leave unchallenged those opinions. Disagreeing with your opinions is not an attack on your general character or person.

You are free to disagree with my opinion on this. I won't take it personally.

[ren]

Quote by: grandpa How do you think this affects society? Grandpa h.

Unless everyone thinks the same thing, it sets up a binary opposition, the beginning of a dialectic, but without any movement, the dialectic never moves, and society ends up polarized.

I'd say that's been one of the effects of a media type called "talk radio," some of which devolved into "hate radio" -- and I suppose into Fox "audio video" television, as well, with the form of large gorilla types who bare their teeth and scream at their guests. The worse for society as a whole, because it's done in a medium in which listeners can't respond, and the result is an effect on the mind that things are, in fact, stuck in a polar opposition framework.

And that public pattern, I'm afraid, has had a huge effect on the public debate that occurs through the media. Possibly even here on these message boards, where the pattern of communcation is followed, simply because that's the only example some people have for discusssion behavior. One of the consequences of polarization is a shutting down and bunkering in for protection, rather than an opening up to different ways of looking at ideas.

[Morality Games]

Quote by: Isherwood In the context of this forum, disagreements are not personal attacks. The rules are quite explicit. I respect anyone's right to hold any opinion. I'm not obliged to agree with or leave unchallenged those opinions. Disagreeing with your opinions is not an attack on your general character or person. You are free to disagree with my opinion on this. I won't take it personally.

Psychologically, it is still an attack -- most people don't draw a distinction between themselves and their opinions. The forum acknowledges this and attempts to govern unruly behavior by making a rule that people must be civil. However, it can't break humanity's emotional tendencies that easily.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman Isn't it obvious? Americans love watching ignorant jackasses spout off about shit.

True. Bill O'Reilly is perhaps the worst, though -- thanks to his "mic-cutting." All he does is tell people he dislikes to "jump off the nearest cliff," so to speak. Anyone could run a show like that, couldn't they?

Grandpa h.