Upward mobility of African Americans

[MplsBison]

They've been in the US for how many generations now? Since being slaves, at least.


No doubt that some of them have "made it out". Of chronic poverty, that is.


Asian Americans often do it within one generation.


I have a feeling that Mexican Americans are going to be moving up within a couple generations.




So here's the question: why is it taking African Americans so long to migrate up to the middle class and higher? It seems like they're content to stay in the lower class as wait for reparations.

[Compugasm]

The media beats the Uncle Tom message like a drum. If you think ebonics is cool, or wear FUBU and that it is part of "urban culture" then take a number and get in line behind the Indians.

Quote by: Morgan Freeman I am going to stop calling you a white man and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man.

Everyone has had it rough. So I don't fully understand the special treatment either. All I know, is I'm quite sick of hearing about it. So I'm all for dropping the hyphenated nationalities and society of perpetual victimhood.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Compugasm The media beats the Uncle Tom message like a drum. If you think ebonics is cool, or wear FUBU and that it is part of "urban culture" then take a number and get in line behind the Indians.

Well, some people in "urban culture" are responsible for some fine poetry:

"It's like that and it's
like this I took her to the pad and we started to kiss..." -- Eazy-E, "GIMME THAT NUTT"

How many other people could write lyrics like these?:

Eazy E - GIMME THAT NUTT Lyrics

Grandpa h.

[freedom13]

Asian Americans often do it within one generation. I have a feeling that Mexican Americans are going to be moving up within a couple generations.

Maybe, Asian and Mexican American never heard of the Willie Lynch method. I don't recall Asian and Mexican being brought over here in America as slaves and mistreated like African American.

Willie Lynch letter: The Making of a Slave Willie Lynch letter: The Making of a Slave This speech was delivered by Willie Lynch on the bank of the James River in the colony of Virginia in 1712. Lynch was a British slave owner in the West Indies. He was invited to the colony of Virginia in 1712 to teach his methods to slave owners there. The term “lynching” is derived from his last name. [beginning of the Willie Lynch Letter] Greetings, Gentlemen. I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies, where I have experimented with some of the newest, and still the oldest, methods for control of slaves. Ancient Rome would envy us if my program is implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish, I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of wood as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers, you are here using the tree and the rope on occasions. I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree, a couple miles back. You are not only losing valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed. Gentlemen, you know what your problems are; I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I HAVE A FULL PROOF METHOD FOR CONTROLLING YOUR BLACK SLAVES. I guarantee every one of you that, if installed correctly, IT WILL CONTROL THE SLAVES FOR AT LEAST 300 HUNDREDS YEARS. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your overseer can use it. I HAVE OUTLINED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENCES AMONG THE SLAVES; AND I TAKE THESE DIFFERENCES AND MAKE THEM BIGGER. I USE FEAR, DISTRUST AND ENVY FOR CONTROL PURPOSES. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences and think about them. On top of my list is “AGE,” but it’s there only because it starts with an “a.” The second is “COLOR” or shade. There is INTELLIGENCE, SIZE, SEX, SIZES OF PLANTATIONS, STATUS on plantations, ATTITUDE of owners, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, course hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action, but before that, I shall assure you that DISTRUST IS STRONGER THAN TRUST AND ENVY STRONGER THAN ADULATION, RESPECT OR ADMIRATION. The Black slaves after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self-refueling and self-generating for HUNDREDS of years, maybe THOUSANDS. Don’t forget, you must pitch the OLD black male vs. the YOUNG black male, and the YOUNG black male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE, and the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have white servants and overseers [who] distrust all Blacks. But it is NECESSARY THAT YOUR SLAVES TRUST AND DEPEND ON US. THEY MUST LOVE, RESPECT AND TRUST ONLY US. Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. IF USED INTENSELY FOR ONE YEAR, THE SLAVES THEMSELVES WILL REMAIN PERPETUALLY DISTRUSTFUL. Thank you gentlemen.” Additional Note: “Henty Berry, speaking in the Virginia House of Delegates in 1832, described the situation as it existed in many parts of the South at this time: “We have, as far as possible, closed every avenue by which light may enter their (the slaves) minds. If we could extinguish the capacity to see the light, our work would be complete; they would then be on a level with the beasts of the field and we should be safe. I am not certain that we would not do it, if we could find out the process and that on the plea of necessity.” From Brown America, The story of a New Race by Edwin R. Embree. 1931 The Viking Press.

[grandpa]

Quote by: freedom13 Maybe, Asian and Mexican American never heard of the Willie Lynch method. I don't recall Asian and Mexican being brought over here in America as slaves and mistreated like African American.

Actually, Asians and Mexicans have been treated very poorly in american history, though not always as badly. An obvious example would be the Japanese internment camps and the Chinese Exclusion Act. Then there's "Operation Wetback" and the fact that Mexicans were demonized to orginally sell the war on marijuana. In addition, I've heard recent stories, at least involving Mexican immigrants.

Another thing, though: The group we today call "African Americans" has been miseducated for a long time.

Grandpa h.

[Cephus]

Actually it's because, within the black community itself, they're taught that the white man is keeping them down and they have no responsibility to make anything of themselves, they just *DESERVE* to be handed success on a silver platter. Those that really go out and try succeed. Those that sit around and wait for things to happen magically do not. Anyone of any skin color can succeed in America, it just takes determination and willpower to work toward the goal and the ability to avoid any idiotic life-ruining decisions along the way.

[Technosoul]

[QUOTE=MplsBison;482896]They've been in the US for how many generations now? Since being slaves, at least.


No doubt that some of them have "made it out". Of chronic poverty, that is.


Asian Americans often do it within one generation.


I have a feeling that Mexican Americans are going to be moving up within a couple generations.

**********************************************************************************

Because they cannot jump as high as white people in the basketball game of economics? Just kidding.

One avenue you might explore is the status of Africans who ended up in France, or in England, instead of ending up in the USA. Where discrimination was not a big factor. Which discrimination was caused in part due to our big civil war. The south took out their harted of the north on the black people who got liberated.

You have lots to concider concerning the USA, discrimination by whites who control most of the economy as far as offering employment. And the difference in funding for public schools in poor neighborhoods as compared to middle-class white America.

And the non-ability or the failure of the black community to loan each other money to start up a business with the support in buying power from within their own community.

The trouble they have in overcoming the stereotyped images of being lazy and so forth, or the fears that they are criminals and cannot be trusted. And that they cannot overcome the idea of not wanting to be a white man's slave or a "Uncle Tom" when it comes to working for a white boss to earn money, the secret urge to rebel from such white dominaiton within the workplace.

When we had the big riot in Watts and the looting of stores none of the major chain stores ever came back to that area to build new stores. It still looks like a burned down ghost town and as a result poverty in that city is abundant.

The ability of black people to get good credit at banks. Due to some stats that had been drawn up by bankers, where as the Asian population seemed to have gotten a high credit rating.

I hope my overview did not offend anyone. Just trying to tell it like it is.

[grandpa]

Quote by: MplsBison They've been in the US for how many generations now? Since being slaves, at least.

Of course, this is not uttering a single word against the elites who really do try to run the global economy.
To point that out is hardly "making excuses" for poverty. On can be reasonably well off and hold such views.

Grandpa h.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: freedom13 Maybe, Asian and Mexican American never heard of the Willie Lynch method. I don't recall Asian and Mexican being brought over here in America as slaves and mistreated like African American.

It's true that Mexican and Asian Americans wanted to come here and make a life for themselves.


Perhaps that's why they work so hard for their status.




Still, African Americans are certainly now free to go back to Africa. Why aren't they doing that?

[Compugasm]

Quote by: MplsBison Still, African Americans are certainly now free to go back to Africa. Why aren't they doing that?

They're waiting for the government to buy them a bus ticket. Sorry, couldn't resist that perfect setup. Man, that was pretty offensive.

[another day]

The first obvious criticism of the OP is that the Asian and Mexican immigrants you speak of that flourish in a generation are just that - new IMMIGRANTS. The black people are mostly not new immigrants but have lived in America for generations. I'm not exactly up to verbalizing the significance of that at the moment, but think about the patterns they have become entrenched in that stem from their roots in America and the racism their ancestors faced...

[Cephus]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into the whole "you were mean to my ancestors, therefore you owe me" crap. It's nonsense. There is nothing whatsoever stopping modern-day blacks from getting off their asses and being successful. There isn't a single American black alive today who was ever a slave. Nor were their parents. Nor were their grandparents. Probably not their great-grandparents either. It's time to get the hell over it and move on.

[MplsBison]

Quote by: another day The first obvious criticism of the OP is that the Asian and Mexican immigrants you speak of that flourish in a generation are just that - new IMMIGRANTS. The black people are mostly not new immigrants but have lived in America for generations. I'm not exactly up to verbalizing the significance of that at the moment, but think about the patterns they have become entrenched in that stem from their roots in America and the racism their ancestors faced...

I already said that I understand that they did not choose to come to America.


They're free to go back to Africa at any time.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Cephus Actually it's because, within the black community itself, they're taught that the white man is keeping them down and they have no responsibility to make anything of themselves, they just *DESERVE* to be handed success on a silver platter. Those that really go out and try succeed. Those that sit around and wait for things to happen magically do not. Anyone of any skin color can succeed in America, it just takes determination and willpower to work toward the goal and the ability to avoid any idiotic life-ruining decisions along the way.

I agree. And sadly, those within the community that do make good and do encourage others not to act like victims and get up and make something of themselves are often ostracized and/or negatively associated to white people. Look what happened with Bill Cosby.

I don't buy this crap about white America still being hostile to blacks. Unless you count the liberal whites who tell blacks that they are being oppressed and that they are stuck in a cycle of poverty and that there's no possible way to get out and that the only way they can hold on is to vote in a Democrat that will make sure that the federal tax dollars take real good care of them. I guess that counts. The best thing we could do to help the upward mobility of blacks is to drop this policy of making them feel like victims and treat them like everyone else in the country: drop the Affirmative Action, drop race-specific entitlement programs, forget reparations, and get on with life as an equal America.

[grandpa]

Quote by: MplsBison I already said that I understand that they did not choose to come to America. They're free to go back to Africa at any time.

Many of them have never been to Africa, so I'm not sure exactly what your point is -- other than to downplay whatever concerns black Americans have. Why not tell any angry, poor whites (of which I'm sure there are enough) of European ancestry to go back to Europe? It would make just as much sense.

Essentially, you're engaging in the "love it or leave it" defense, which is something any sensible person could debunk. You also assume a person's right to choose where they live is easily met. That isn't always true, thanks to legal citizenship standards and, quite often, one's economic status.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I agree. And sadly, those within the community that do make good and do encourage others not to act like victims and get up and make something of themselves are often ostracized and/or negatively associated to white people.

This is something I feel strongly about, and I don't expect to bring
everybody over to my point of view...but a lot of things can be properly negatively associated with this system, which has indeed been imposed by white people through genocide and the enslavement of others. No one should be surprised if people are deeply offended by its history and by the status quo, regardless of color.

Grandpa h.

[phoenix_fire]

Well, frankly I get tired of hearing it...being a woman and all.

[grandpa]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Well, frankly I get tired of hearing it... being a woman and all.

Tired of hearing what exactly? I'm not being argumentative, just asking for clarification.

Grandpa h.

[phoenix_fire]

Tired of hearing about how the comparatively brief enslavement of some black people over a hundred years ago is such a permanent handicap on the entire race these days, when women have had it far worse. Black men got the right to vote long before women. Women have been oppressed, psychologically subjugated, and sometimes enslaved throughout much of history. We weren't just considered inferior; we were considered the sole cause of all of mankind's suffering. When women were raped, it was considered their own fault. In many places, this still holds true. And women are still far more discriminated against than any race in so-called civilized societies. Most of us don't complain: we do what we've always done, which is to knuckle under and do what we have to do. So forgive me if I seem less than impressed with the whole reparationist mindset.

[grandpa]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Tired of hearing about how the comparatively brief enslavement of some black people over a hundred years ago is such a permanent handicap on the entire race these days, when women have had it far worse. Black men got the right to vote long before women.

Yes, women have also have had their rights undermined. But now it seems like you're using their struggle to essentially downplay that of other people. And I personally wouldn't call 400 years of slavery "brief." In fact, Jim Crow wasn't even abolished very long ago.

As for voting rights, it's not that voting is likely to profoundly change an elitist structure.
For example, it's well known that, for a while, the number of blacks who were permitted to vote was miniscule.
In fact, plenty of black voters were purged from the voter rolls in the 2000 election, as written about extensively by Greg Palast.

Grandpa h.