What's the point of smoking?

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Chancellor Maybe some people do smoke to look "cool" (whatever the hell that means). I smoke cigars simply because I enjoy them. You said "smoking kills." Well, life kills. It is 100 percent fatal. Shall we do away with life just because it kills people?

And yet I can live a longer, healthier life simply by not smoking. If you want to kill yourself, slowly or quickly, I won't stand in your way. However, kindly keep that toxic smoke out of my face.

TC

[Gregory]

I smoke a couple of cigarettes a day- I used to smoke crack though, so I think I am getting better.

I guess I identify with option 5

[Chancellor]

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal And yet I can live a longer, healthier life simply by not smoking. If you want to kill yourself, slowly or quickly, I won't stand in your way. However, kindly keep that toxic smoke out of my face. TC

Keep yourself away from my smoke.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Chancellor Keep yourself away from my smoke.

No, it's your job to keep it away from me. Poison is poison. Gotta be responsible.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Chancellor Keep yourself away from my smoke.

MM is right; you're the one who chose to smoke, so you're the one who has to make sure your actions don't harm others. It's bad enough that you're harming yourself; that's your decision, but you don't get to decide for me.

TC

[beyondios]

/Most/ people smoke because they're "stressed" and cigarettes give them temporary relief from all their problems.

I think that's pathetic. There are many MANY other ways to reduce stress. But you know, suit yourself. I, for one, am never going to smoke. It's disgusting, dangerous, and a waste of my money.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Crim MM is right; you're the one who chose to smoke, so you're the one who has to make sure your actions don't harm others. It's bad enough that you're harming yourself; that's your decision, but you don't get to decide for me.

No one is trying to decide for you. If you don’t like to breathe harmful smoke, don’t go into bars or restaurants which allow smoking. You’re not a child, so it really shouldn’t be too much to ask that you take responsibility for your choices.

Quote by: Marilyn No, it's your job to keep it away from me. Poison is poison. Gotta be responsible.

That’s the point though. We’re all supposed to be responsible adults and thus should take responsibility for our actions. Just as sticking your head under water and breathing in is your responsibility, entering a bar full of smoke and breathing in is your responsibility. Both are conscious choices and both are entirely avoidable if you’re prepared to act like a responsible adult and not a child, needing a nanny to protect you from yourself.

Quote by: beyon /Most/ people smoke because they're "stressed" and cigarettes give them temporary relief from all their problems. I think that's pathetic. There are many MANY other ways to reduce stress. But you know, suit yourself. I, for one, am never going to smoke. It's disgusting, dangerous, and a waste of my money.

You’ll never know that for sure if you don’t try it.

[pikatore]

I'm proud to say that I quit smoking after a few years, and I'm feeling better than ever. Also, the UK smoking ban has driven numbers down dramatically. It's only good news.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy No one is trying to decide for you. If you don’t like to breathe harmful smoke, don’t go into bars or restaurants which allow smoking. You’re not a child, so it really shouldn’t be too much to ask that you take responsibility for your choices.

Yeah you are, it's an infringement of my rights.

That’s the point though. We’re all supposed to be responsible adults and thus should take responsibility for our actions. Just as sticking your head under water and breathing in is your responsibility, entering a bar full of smoke and breathing in is your responsibility. Both are conscious choices and both are entirely avoidable if you’re prepared to act like a responsible adult and not a child, needing a nanny to protect you from yourself.

Throw out all the ifs and the responsiibility is on the smoker. The lines have been drawn. This issue has already been decided as to what's whose responsibility. I shouldn't have to stay out of a smoke filled bar, you should have to go outside. It may seem unfortunate, but smoking has been established as a huge health hazzard.

I'd say smoker's should have put up more of a fight early on, cause the writing was on the wall. I refused to give in for a very long time and kept smoking, but alas, the cost just got too outrageous.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyn Yeah you are, it's an infringement of my rights.

Since when did you have an unconditional right to decide how other people choose to use their private property?

Quote by: Marilyn Throw out all the ifs and the responsiibility is on the smoker. The lines have been drawn. This issue has already been decided as to what's whose responsibility. I shouldn't have to stay out of a smoke filled bar, you should have to go outside. It may seem unfortunate, but smoking has been established as a huge health hazzard.

That's merely your biased perception of the issue as a non-smoker. Why should your own personal feelings trump the property rights of the bar owner? Should my feelings be allowed to dictate what you do with your house?

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Since when did you have an unconditional right to decide how other people choose to use their private property?

It's not entirely private property when you own a business, especially an establishment that has customers. There are all sorts of rules and regulations involved with businesses, and most are necessary.

That's merely your biased perception of the issue as a non-smoker. Why should your own personal feelings trump the property rights of the bar owner? Should my feelings be allowed to dictate what you do with your house?

My house is a lot more private than a business is.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyn It's not entirely private property when you own a business, especially an establishment that has customers. There are all sorts of rules and regulations involved with businesses, and most are necessary.

The fact that there are doesn't mean that there should be.

And unless you're suggesting that it's necessary for you to go to a bar or restaurant, there's nothing necessary about banning smoking there. Nothing is forcing you to go to a bar or restaurant and it's therefore not at all necessary that you are able to do so in complete safety. If the safety isn't good enough for you, simply don't go.

Quote by: Marilyn My house is a lot more private than a business is.

Again, only because the government says so. There's no objective difference between your house and a bar. Both are privately owned, both allow members of the public to enter and both should therefore be subject to the same property rights.

[Jack_Sparrow]

I think all this 'my rights' business separates mankind from being a co-independant group, a team, to being a load of individuals who can do whatever they want regardless of what it does to the cooperative element to being human.

For instance, I consider me and my brother to be a team of sorts, and as he smokes and I do not, I try to make him stop so that us as a team can benifit.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Jack I think all this 'my rights' business separates mankind from being a co-independant group, a team, to being a load of individuals who can do whatever they want regardless of what it does to the cooperative element to being human. For instance, I consider me and my brother to be a team of sorts, and as he smokes and I do not, I try to make him stop so that us as a team can benifit.

What if your brother doesn't want to be part of this team? Do you claim the right to force him to live his life in accordance with what's best for "the team"?

[Jack_Sparrow]

That isnt the case.

On a larger scale, if someone wants to become a hermit, they can leave man kind and do as they wish. But while people remain in 'society', they can expect pressures to act in certain cooperative ways, including meeting people who suggest they stop smoking. I think they do this to help them, like a form of caring. I think the reason people care for one another is because evolution has programmed us to do so, to strenghern cooperation and teamwork, this is what humans do. If I care for my bro, and want him to kick the habit, I suspect that feeling stems from an evolutionary mechanism which is aiding my survival by causing me to strenghern my team mates

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Jack That isnt the case. On a larger scale, if someone wants to become a hermit, they can leave man kind and do as they wish. But while people remain in 'society', they can expect pressures to act in certain cooperative ways, including meeting people who suggest they stop smoking. I think they do this to help them, like a form of caring.

But telling someone not to smoke so that they benefit your team or society isn't to do with caring about this person; it's to do with caring about your team.

[Jack_Sparrow]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy But telling someone not to smoke so that they benefit your team or society isn't to do with caring about this person; it's to do with caring about your team.

You have misunderstood me. I am suggesting individuals -including me- are acting to benefit their team unconsciously, due to a survival mechanism instilled by evolution. The manifestation of this is caring. All we have to do is follow a tendency to care for others, to suggest they get fit or kick the habit. But I think the root of the caring instinct is survival in the end, like many other instincts including moral outrage. I believe this is the rationale for an organism to partake in empathy, caring, altruism; the organism is cooperative and uses teamwork for group survival.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Jack_Sparrow I think all this 'my rights' business separates mankind from being a co-independant group, a team, to being a load of individuals who can do whatever they want regardless of what it does to the cooperative element to being human. For instance, I consider me and my brother to be a team of sorts, and as he smokes and I do not, I try to make him stop so that us as a team can benifit.

This is noble of you, but he's an adult who knows the dangers, so in MHO it's best to keep quiet about it unless he's infringing on your space with it.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy But telling someone not to smoke so that they benefit your team or society isn't to do with caring about this person; it's to do with caring about your team.

The team is everybody in a sense, but it's also singular. Teams are made up of individuals.

Caring can be hard to come by even within a family unit, so you have to take what you can get.

I get Sparrow's point, but I think we are survivalists first, and then the team thing might come into play if it aids our survival, so it's really selfish in that sense.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Jack_Sparrow You have misunderstood me. I am suggesting individuals -including me- are acting to benefit their team unconsciously, due to a survival mechanism instilled by evolution. The manifestation of this is caring. All we have to do is follow a tendency to care for others, to suggest they get fit or kick the habit. But I think the root of the caring instinct is survival in the end, like many other instincts including moral outrage. I believe this is the rationale for an organism to partake in empathy, caring, altruism; the organism is cooperative and uses teamwork for group survival.

We care about ourselves first and foremost, then if we are well situated we might in some tiny way aid the so-called team, but generally it will be along blood-lines, most of us are rather stingy in aiding the whole team. It's every man for himself.