What's the point of smoking?

[Eika35]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe Welcome! I thought I loved it, too. Think I loved the addiction. Also think my life would have been better without cigarettes. Much better. Think about the things you missed, or didn't do because of the smoking. Always having to have the damn things was a real pain in the ass.

I remember always having to have enough cigarettes when I went out and had a bigger purse so I could take a couple of packs with me - just in case.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Eika35 I remember always having to have enough cigarettes when I went out and had a bigger purse so I could take a couple of packs with me - just in case.

Right, right!

Those smoking hangovers were a real bitch. I think they were worse than the booze hangovers.

[Eika35]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe Right, right! Those smoking hangovers were a real bitch. I think they were worse than the booze hangovers.

I agree.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyn Smoking isn't really a pleasure, it's an addiction. I don't believe it really is all that pleasurable after you've become addicted to it. Most cravings can be satisfied with self-control. There's no way humans can't control most everything they do. They can think.

Right, and some smokers think that satisfying their addiction is a pleasurable activity. You can't deny that the relief of satisfying a craving is pleasurable, even if you personally don't think it's worth it.

Quote by: Marilyn Smokers start to become unhealthy with the first puff.

Not significantly.

Quote by: Marilyn The non-smoker shouldn't have to make a choice,

Correct, the choice should be made by whomever owns the building in question. If they allow smoking, it's the responsibility of the non-smoker to leave.

[Deadeye]

The point of smoking is to quit smoking. As the wise man once said, "It's like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer. It feels so good when you stop."

[??!]

Quote by: Deadeye The point of smoking is to quit smoking. As the wise man once said, "It's like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer. It feels so good when you stop."

If you have never smoked, then how would the goal of smoking be to quit? Im at a loss here

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Right, and some smokers think that satisfying their addiction is a pleasurable activity. You can't deny that the relief of satisfying a craving is pleasurable, even if you personally don't think it's worth it.

I'm not a big craver. Seems like craving something is a lack of control. I'm not so sure it's pleasurable, maybe some of the time it is, the rest of the time it's just a habit.

Not significantly.

Can have an immeditate heart attack from a cigarette. Might be rare, but it can happen. Starts to mess with the cilia in your lungs right away, makes the heart increase beating. Depends on the risks you want to take, and if you think it's really worth it. They say every cigarette shortens your life, so the significance is in the eyes of the beholder.

Correct, the choice should be made by whomever owns the building in question. If they allow smoking, it's the responsibility of the non-smoker to leave.

Depends since it's a health risk. Some things that are considered dangerous aren't permitted even if the owner of the building permits it. Being it's dangerous for the smokers it might not be permitted. People have to be saved from themselves on occasion.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyn I'm not a big craver.

Right, but some people are and some people enjoy satisfying this craving.

Quote by: Marilyn Can have an immeditate heart attack from a cigarette. Might be rare, but it can happen. Starts to mess with the cilia in your lungs right away, makes the heart increase beating. Depends on the risks you want to take, and if you think it's really worth it. They say every cigarette shortens your life, so the significance is in the eyes of the beholder.

Exactly, which is why you can’t say definitively that smoking is a stupid choice. It depends on the person’s priorities.

Quote by: Marilyn Depends since it's a health risk. Some things that are considered dangerous aren't permitted even if the owner of the building permits it. Being it's dangerous for the smokers it might not be permitted. People have to be saved from themselves on occasion.

The fact that the state currently oversteps its boundaries and interferes with people’s personal lives doesn’t mean that it should continue to do so. Whether or not something such as smoking should be done is a matter of subjective priority. As it’s subjective, the only one qualified to make the decision is the individual in question; not society.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Exactly, which is why you can’t say definitively that smoking is a stupid choice. It depends on the person’s priorities.

Then nothing would be stupid. If something is bad for you, it's usually got an element of stupidity involved in it.

The fact that the state currently oversteps its boundaries and interferes with people’s personal lives doesn’t mean that it should continue to do so. Whether or not something such as smoking should be done is a matter of subjective priority. As it’s subjective, the only one qualified to make the decision is the individual in question; not society.

Not really overstepping, just looking out for the welfare of it's people's lives. Smoking can be looked at objectively. More than likely if you saw someone trying to kill themself you'd try to intervene, or prevent it. Society has a right to try and prevent people from killing themselves. I'd say if you don't like following the rules of a society then you should become a hermit, or find a society that fits in more precisely with your needs. Not easy to do though because most of our societies suit us pretty well overall. You can either take up a campaign to stop the interference, or just go along with it.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyn Then nothing would be stupid. If something is bad for you,

But it’s only bad for your health. Health is only one aspect of a person’s life.

Quote by: Marilyn Not really overstepping, just looking out for the welfare of it's people's lives.

The welfare of an individual is subjective. If a better chance of a long life is important to someone, it’s in their best interests not to smoke. If the pleasures associated with smoking is important to someone, it’s in their best interests to smoke.

Quote by: Marilyn More than likely if you saw someone trying to kill themself you'd try to intervene, or prevent it.

Perhaps I would want to talk to him about it before he commited the act, but a person who respects an individual’s right to run his own life would not force him to live against his will.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy But it’s only bad for your health. Health is only one aspect of a person’s life.

A very important aspect of a person's life. Kinda like having two legs that work.

The welfare of an individual is subjective. If a better chance of a long life is important to someone, it’s in their best interests not to smoke. If the pleasures associated with smoking is important to someone, it’s in their best interests to smoke.

Not always. With children, and the elderly it's more objective, the rest of us can go either way. It's not just a long life, it's a higher quality of life which we usually don't worry about till it's too late. Take me, (please, ha, ha), when I was young I loved the booze and cigs. Absolutely adored them. As time passed I started feeling guiltier and guiltier about these habits cause it was a drain on my family, and I could tell they were sucking the life out of me. But....I couldn't just stop, well I could have, but I had no will-power. To me, if cigs were benign, you could take them or leave them, it wouldn't be such a concern, but they are addicting, and the addiction is a very powerful one, so even when you want to stop it's almost impossible to do it the first go around. This is why it gets out of one's control. We don't want it, but we can't stop just like that. A small percentage may be able to stop immediately, but not bloody likely for the majority.

Perhaps I would want to talk to him about it before he commited the act, but a person who respects an individual’s right to run his own life would not force him to live against his will.

Most of us know suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, so we might try to control the person for a while to give them the time needed to rethink the situation. Sometimes we aren't in our right minds, and cigarettes fall into that category for the majority of smokers. Sure it's their choice, but we should try to provide aid and inconveniences along the smokers' journey.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe A very important aspect of a person's life. Kinda like having two legs that work.

I was thinking of having two lungs that work as a better example...wait...:)

Either the government has an obligation to protect its citizens from suicidal behavior or it doesn't. I say it does. Not everyone will agree with me and that's kind of as far as this argument will go.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyb A very important aspect of a person's life. Kinda like having two legs that work.

Nothing like having two legs that work because smokers are not generally debilitated by their habit for the majority of their lives.

Quote by: Marilyn Not always. With children, and the elderly it's more objective, the rest of us can go either way. It's not just a long life, it's a higher quality of life which we usually don't worry about till it's too late. Take me, (please, ha, ha), when I was young I loved the booze and cigs. Absolutely adored them. As time passed I started feeling guiltier and guiltier about these habits cause it was a drain on my family, and I could tell they were sucking the life out of me. But....I couldn't just stop, well I could have, but I had no will-power. To me, if cigs were benign, you could take them or leave them, it wouldn't be such a concern, but they are addicting, and the addiction is a very powerful one, so even when you want to stop it's almost impossible to do it the first go around. This is why it gets out of one's control. We don't want it, but we can't stop just like that. A small percentage may be able to stop immediately, but not bloody likely for the majority.

Then they shouldn’t start smoking in the first place and they should take responsibility for their decisions if they do. Everyone knows the dangers of smoking.

Quote by: Marilyn Most of us know suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, so we might try to control the person for a while to give them the time needed to rethink the situation. Sometimes we aren't in our right minds,

Whether someone is in their right mind is subjective. Saying someone made a decison while "not in their right mind" is just another way of saying they made a decision you disagree with.

Quote by: tos Either the government has an obligation to protect its citizens from suicidal behavior or it doesn't. I say it does.

Right, well I hope you’re ok with the government stopping you from drinking alcohol, eating unhealthy food, riding a motorcycle, having unprotected sex, and anything else which might shorten your life expectancy. Or does that only apply to habits that you happen not to like?

[Thanatos]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Right, well I hope you’re ok with the government stopping you from drinking alcohol, eating unhealthy food, riding a motorcycle, having unprotected sex, and anything else which might shorten your life expectancy. Or does that only apply to habits that you happen not to like?

There is an internally consistent logic to my madness; completely outlawing alcohol has been tried and it didn't work out well. However, I have no problem with the government finding less direct ways to discourage alcoholism by taxing it and limiting its sale to minors. What they're doing now for tobacco is about right.

If we ever get universal healthcare, I suppose they should tax tobacco until the taxes pay for all the added medical bills caused by people who smoke. *Insert evil grin here*

[Night]

Smoking is like...well...Bacon (the bacon guy will understand this).

It is definitely not good for you, but it is very relaxing and the person smoking or eating it (in the case of bacon hopefully) takes pleasure from the consumption.

Though it does cause a lot more cancer, it is just one of the many negative side effects of smoking. It's negative attributes really outweigh any positive attributes of smoking, but its a free country and people have a right to be as stupid as they like.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: tos If we ever get universal healthcare, I suppose they should tax tobacco until the taxes pay for all the added medical bills caused by people who smoke. *Insert evil grin here*

I think just about every country with UHC does that already.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Nothing like having two legs that work because smokers are not generally debilitated by their habit for the majority of their lives.

There's some debillitation in that it's an addiction, so it can be consuming.

Then they shouldn’t start smoking in the first place and they should take responsibility for their decisions if they do. Everyone knows the dangers of smoking.

That's right!

Whether someone is in their right mind is subjective. Saying someone made a decison while "not in their right mind" is just another way of saying they made a decision you disagree with.

People can and do go beserk. Mostly we don't bother people and their decisions, but when they are harmful we might say something.

Right, well I hope you’re ok with the government stopping you from drinking alcohol, eating unhealthy food, riding a motorcycle, having unprotected sex, and anything else which might shorten your life expectancy. Or does that only apply to habits that you happen not to like?

The government has taken control of many of these areas in subtle ways, nothing major. Alcohol has many prohibitions, the food we eat usually lists what's in it, motorcycle rider's need licenses, helmets, must follow the rules of the road, condoms are available in most Planned Parenthood facilities free of charge, or low cost. There are many controls in our lives that we take for granted.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: nerdvincent Why do you smoke? Isn't it a bit stupid? Spending [lots of] money to die slowly? It is a major health hazard (both for thou and the people around thou), so why do they allow tobacco and not salvia divinorum? Come on, tell me!

Oh stop it! People smoke for lots and lots of reasons and they aren't all stupid. They smoke. They have smoked for years, most of them. Some would like to stop, some not. Certainly all of their doctors want them to quit.

While I quit years ago I pretty much loved every puff. By the time most folks reach senior citizen status they have quit. Those who haven't quit should.....but I'm not going to tell them to. It's there business and none of mine; or yours whether they smoke or not.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Marilyn There's some debillitation in that it's an addiction, so it can be consuming.

Addiction may alter behaviour but it doesn't remove a person's ability to do anything and hence is not physically debilitating.

Quote by: Marilyn That's right!

Right, but that only applies to people who don’t consider the health effects of smoking to be worth the pleasure. That doesn’t apply to everyone.

Quote by: Marilyn People can and do go beserk. Mostly we don't bother people and their decisions, but when they are harmful we might say something.

Feel free to say whatever you want to them. That point is that you can’t judge any one person to be making the wrong decision if you don’t know them and their situation personally.

Quote by: Marilyn The government has taken control of many of these areas in subtle ways, nothing major. Alcohol has many prohibitions, the food we eat usually lists what's in it, motorcycle rider's need licenses, helmets, must follow the rules of the road, condoms are available in most Planned Parenthood facilities free of charge, or low cost.

Ingredient lists and free condoms are not controlling our lives, driving laws are to protect other drivers and alcohol prohibitions are to prevent the criminal behaviour associated with it.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Ingredient lists and free condoms are not controlling our lives, driving laws are to protect other drivers and alcohol prohibitions are to prevent the criminal behaviour associated with it.

Smoking laws are a preventative measure, also. Smoking kills, so it's just not heathy for the citizens, so it's being slowly abolished, and more difficult to do. That's what most interference of government is, protection.

The things I mentioned are ways to influence, and it gives people more choices. Smoker's are losing their choices. It's a slow process, no doubt about it, but eventually there won't be any cigarette smoker's. Then it will make a comeback, but be safe because someone discovered how to make them taste good, and not kill you in the process.