Which education is better?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Halofan48 Yes because you know everything about me and everything that's happened in my life don't you . Anyway this is off topic. It did happen, took about 3 days, but we managed to do it. She wasn't to happy we were doing it and kept yelling at us to stop.

Notice what you said that prompted my one-word reply: "2. They go through many teachers, so if one is biased, they will likely not be to affected by it and also recognize it as such. I remember we had a sub who was obviously biased, and we knew it, and got her kicked out." This is utter nonsense - not because of what you said you did in your school but because of this silly notion that children in public schools are less likely to be subjected to bias. The bias is in the curriculum and in how a teacher presents the material.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Suburbanite I feel like Gangs are a problem these days at a larger rate, and while I was privvy to shoot outs, the bullying was not school bullying, it was usually just assault and robbery. it wasnt pranks, you know?

I suppose, in some ways, were talk apples and aardvarks. The kind of bullying I'm referring to wouldn't be labelled as "gang" in the same sense my gang of two terrorized me for two years. But stopping a kid every day for two years... no matter what was said or done to them... sometimes just calling his mother names but sometimes kicking him off his bike, grabbing his books and tossing them all over the place, beating the hell out of him to the point that a few of those times he had to go to the doctor... that in no way could be called "pranks." Pranks are when you put a cherry bomb down a toilet, bring a cow to the third floor of the High School (they have a hell of a time walking back down... one of my brothers' senior class did that) or hiding something from someone/playing keep away. Those are "pranks."

I do see the kind of bullying I'm referring to in schools these days: to the point the vicitm is willing to do anything, say anything, so he won't be terrorize by the school bully. I loath them with a passion... and have been known to even stop and let them know I know what they're probably doing if I just happen to see it.

Since I went to public school, except a brief stint at a Baptist college for my Masters, I can't say much about private in that sense... though my wife assures me it happens in Catholic schools, and saw it when she taught at a Catholic elementary in the mid-70s.

I suppose with gangs these days the kind of bullying I'm talking about may seem small onions but if someone did that to you or me, and kept doing it, we'd call the cops, sue... whatever we had to do to stop it.

Real bullying is terrorism... just on a much smaller scale.

[Suburbanite]

yeah sure, sorry that happened, but i dont think its a comment on public school as much as society in general.

[ShadowFox]

Explain how the curriculum is so biased if you will.

Also, Chancellor, I would like to know how you were educated. If you would please state it it would be appreciated.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Suburbanite yeah sure, sorry that happened, but i dont think its a comment on public school as much as society in general.

Yes, I do agree with that. School, of any kind, just increases opportunities for such jackasses simply because it puts a whole group of people, about the same age, in one place. Plus, power struggles are the stuff of humanity. With kids because money, politics, religion, jobs... all of these venues where adults attempt to climb up and over each other... are really not an issue, the next avenue for those who like to push people around for the thrill of it is to turn like a vulture on what one assumes is a weaker, or weakened prey.

[ShadowFox]

Oh, also chancellor, what I was saying is that since these kids go through many different teachers, usually having a new one each year, that they would be less affected by a bias teacher since they have had other, non biased teachers.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Halofan48 Explain how the curriculum is so biased if you will.

Let's start with the attempts to "revise" history, such as attempts in Texas to re-write American history in such a way as to make it seem America is a Christian nation and the ongoing falsehoods regarding the integration of public high schools in Alexandria, VA (for this latter one read Washington City Paper: Cheap Seats: Black Revisionist History Month). Then there's the political correctness being promoted by James Loewen: Amazon.com: Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong: James W. Loewen: Books

Also, Chancellor, I would like to know how you were educated. If you would please state it it would be appreciated.

I'm a survivor of those government indoctrination centers.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Halofan48 Oh, also chancellor, what I was saying is that since these kids go through many different teachers, usually having a new one each year, that they would be less affected by a bias teacher since they have had other, non biased teachers.

I don't believe there is any such thing as a "non-biased" teacher.

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: Chancellor I don't believe there is any such thing as a "non-biased" teacher.

If that statement is true than anyone who educates is biased.

[Suburbanite]

I think the emphasis on bias is only something people without critical thinking would have to fear.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Chancellor I don't believe there is any such thing as a "non-biased" teacher.

Well, obviously. There's no such thing as an unbiased human being - where you stand depends on where you sit, and all that.

The question is if you want your children to only be exposed to your bias throughout their lives. I think to want that is to exhibit conceit and closed-mindedness - assuming that your biased views are superior to everyone else's biased views.

Ironically, at the same time, it's a sign of feeling that your values are at risk - that your children could be swayed to some other way of thinking by a person they listen to for a couple hours a day.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Well, obviously. There's no such thing as an unbiased human being - where you stand depends on where you sit, and all that.

Yet some people here are suggesting that there are unbiased teachers.

The question is if you want your children to only be exposed to your bias throughout their lives. I think to want that is to exhibit conceit and closed-mindedness - assuming that your biased views are superior to everyone else's biased views.

I don't care if people are biased but I do object to them not being open about it. I especially object to those who claim to be unbiased while clearly displaying bias.

Ironically, at the same time, it's a sign of feeling that your values are at risk - that your children could be swayed to some other way of thinking by a person they listen to for a couple hours a day.

Teaching values to children is the responsibility of parents, not the government. These days, children often spend more time under the influence of government indoctrination centers than under the influence of their parents.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Halofan48 If that statement is true than anyone who educates is biased.

They are. I don't have a problem with that, as long as they're open about it.

[Suburbanite]

And somehow people in public schools are less open? Give me a break. Most PRIVATE schools are religious, i doubt they're ever telling kids, "you're going to burn in hell, or at least thats my bias".
your point is laughable, and you're coming off paranoid.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Suburbanite And somehow people in public schools are less open? Give me a break. Most PRIVATE schools are religious, i doubt they're ever telling kids, "you're going to burn in hell, or at least thats my bias". your point is laughable, and you're coming off paranoid.

Are "most" private schools religious? Even if they are, they're quite open about their bias (the particular religion operating the school).

[Suburbanite]

Well, in that same sense, the class title explains the "bias" of the teacher. In science class the teacher is naturally going to have a bias towards say, evolution. A math class, a bias towards numbers. English class, bias towards.... english? What specific biases scare you?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Suburbanite Well, in that same sense, the class title explains the "bias" of the teacher.

Well, no, not really.

In science class the teacher is naturally going to have a bias towards say, evolution.

But since evolution is not, itself, science, having a bias toward evolution as a theory of origins (as opposed to, say, intelligent design) is an inappropriate bias (because it is a bias toward a particular theory of origins - though it is probably incorrect to refer to evolution as a theory of origins despite Darwin's book on evolution containing "Origin" in the title).

A math class, a bias towards numbers.

A math class promoting one mathematical theory and not presenting others would be an inappropriate bias.

English class, bias towards.... english?

Bias toward literature that has nothing whatsoever to do with American/English literature, bias against using correct grammar and spelling.

What specific biases scare you?

Biases against parents teaching their children values; biases against the strict limits imposed on the federal government in the Constitution; biases in favor of or in opposition to particular political views (as happens with all this diversity and political correctness crap); teaching so-called "values clarification" (situation analysis, moral relativity, outcome-based education); "revising" history in order to conform it to political correctness; etc.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: Chancellor But since evolution is not, itself, science, having a bias toward evolution as a theory of origins (as opposed to, say, intelligent design) is an inappropriate bias (because it is a bias toward a particular theory of origins - though it is probably incorrect to refer to evolution as a theory of origins despite Darwin's book on evolution containing "Origin" in the title).

It is essential to understanding the science of biology, which in public school is the first scientific discipline you learn (though I think physics should go first). Teaching evolution as a theory of origin, i understand that this detracts from children who are trying to believe in religion, however it is science class. Also, they rarely rarely teach evolution as a theory of origin from nothingness, only from origin from lesser species. Evolution has yet to explain "the spark" as its called, you're right, but they never tell you that it does.

Quote by: Chancellor Bias toward literature that has nothing whatsoever to do with American/English literature, bias against using correct grammar and spelling. Biases against parents teaching their children values; biases against the strict limits imposed on the federal government in the Constitution; biases in favor of or in opposition to particular political views (as happens with all this diversity and political correctness crap); teaching so-called "values clarification" (situation analysis, moral relativity, outcome-based education); "revising" history in order to conform it to political correctness; etc.

Tell me if you think this is true: that schools using political correctness, shit talking the second amendment, and expressing political views is only a microcosm of America? Not that this makes it okay, but I also know that it is important to learn to disagree with authority figures.

For me, i was lucky. I went to a SUPER liberally biased high school, but the first semester was spent teaching us critical reasoning, and as a result, the experience was NOT brainwashing

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Suburbanite It is essential to understanding the science of biology, which in public school is the first scientific discipline you learn (though I think physics should go first). Teaching evolution as a theory of origin, i understand that this detracts from children who are trying to believe in religion, however it is science class. Also, they rarely rarely teach evolution as a theory of origin from nothingness, only from origin from lesser species. Evolution has yet to explain "the spark" as its called, you're right, but they never tell you that it does.

Any discussion of origins belongs in a philosophy class, not a science class.

Tell me if you think this is true: that schools using political correctness, shit talking the second amendment, and expressing political views is only a microcosm of America? Not that this makes it okay, but I also know that it is important to learn to disagree with authority figures.

Schools aren't supposed to mirror American society and what you're describing is only reflective of certain segments of the American population.

For me, i was lucky. I went to a SUPER liberally biased high school, but the first semester was spent teaching us critical reasoning, and as a result, the experience was NOT brainwashing

Liberally biased and critical reasoning is an oxymoron. Again, it is not the role of government to teach values, it's the role of parents to teach values.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: Chancellor Any discussion of origins belongs in a philosophy class, not a science class. Schools aren't supposed to mirror American society and what you're describing is only reflective of certain segments of the American population. Liberally biased and critical reasoning is an oxymoron. Again, it is not the role of government to teach values, it's the role of parents to teach values.

Firstly, they don't teach evolution in the context of a creation story, but as a function of biology. In fact, in biology class, they explicitly admit ignorance on the issue. Further, of course schools mirror American society. Lastly, schools don't teach values. Period. I never learned anything about right or wrong in public school. The government is not intentionally teaching one particular bias, and is especially not doing so to upset Christians, who they constantly pander to. It is NATURAL that an education makes a person more humanitarian and more of an atheist. You call it liberal, buts its just intelligence. I know, they seem similar to you, but there is a difference. Schools don't tell you to value peace or not to be religious. Intelligence tells you to do those things. Sorry.