Do you consider skinning animals ALIVE as cruel, or unusual?

[Ljay23bling]

I came across a video a few months back, and I've discussed it on numerous forums that I visit every now and then, however, do you consider skinning animals ALIVE as cruel and unusual?

Some people that I have argued with said it be fine with them as long as the dogs are eaten after, I argued my view and agreed to disagree. So, what do you say? Watch the video if you wish (but please, watch at least up to 2:09).

Here's a video which should influence your reasoning if you wish to conclude and discuss this topic. Thanks!

If you wish to watch this video you may do so:

Via YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD51zMTvm24 (You must be logged in)

If you wish to bypass registration - Go here - Political Forum - US & World Political Discussion Forums - View Single Post - China should enforce more regulations

Not suitable for minors. These are dogs, btw.

[GHook93]

I disagree with it. Killing an animal for food (or really for any other reason) should be done as quickly and painless as possible. Animals should be treated humanely before they are slaughtered. That is the main reason I won't eat veal or try foie gras!

[Ljay23bling]

Quote by: GHook93 I disagree with it. Killing an animal for food (or really for any other reason) should be done as quickly and painless as possible. Animals should be treated humanely before they are slaughtered. That is the main reason I won't eat veal or try foie gras!

Oh, I agree. I have never touched veal and I never will.

Overall, it's really pathetic in regard to the sympathy people show animals. Animal testing, animal cruelty......its a mess.

How was the video btw?

[Suburbanite]

it reminds you of your own humanity, thats for sure. but the thing about humanity is empathy. you think its cruel because you imagine yourself being skinned alive. its fear of death, torture, and humiliation that keeps us humanitarian.

[shawmutt]

Whelp, I have eaten a lobster after it was boiled alive. I love veal (not all veal is milk-fed veal, btw) and lamb. When I used to catch fish I'd let them dangle on a stringer until I was ready to cook them. I eat meat from the industrial meat producers. I've eaten live termites off the tree. I force open clams and suck their guts down. I wear leather products. I wear wool products.

I'm not sure I can look down on another's customs.

Here's a video which should influence your reasoning

The video is appeal to emotion. There are things that Americans do that would be disgusting to other cultures.

[MariKine]

Sorry, couldn't watch the vid', lol.

I'm the biggest animal lover you could find. If an animal has to be killed for food, make it quick for f's sake.


If it's being killed for fun.. you should be kicked in the face. :/

[Jack]

Quote by: MariKine Sorry, couldn't watch the vid', lol. I'm the biggest animal lover you could find. If an animal has to be killed for food, make it quick for f's sake. If it's being killed for fun.. you should be kicked in the face. :/

Yup, I agree on every point, including not wishing to ruin my pleasant morning by watching that video.

[atheist]

what a mean way to farm animals.

i saw that with that smallish white animal, at least the guy had the heart to try suffocating it several times during the skinning. which makes me come to believe that it's not that the people want to skin them alive because it's better, but because they just don't have the means of killing these animals in a method that doesn't cause holes in their fur/bodies (i.e. no guns). also, the manufacturer probably doesn't want to spend money on expensive chemicals to kill the animals.

maybe if someone reasoned to them that the increased cortisol levels from the stress/pain these animals go through decreases the quality of meat, and then publicize this to dog meat markets, who will then prefer meat from farms that kill animals before skinning, then it might generate some change in skinning procedures.

based on all that pacing behavior of the caged animals, it seems to me like they've been raised in captivity and were leading very sorry lives beforehand anyway. seems pretty similar to how fowl are treated in the US (with the de-beaking, and in general, raising animals up to eat them).

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ljay23bling Animal testing, animal cruelty......its a mess.

Much of the animal testing is unnecessary, however, some animal testing is also necessary. Although I do think animal testing should be the last resort.

How was the video btw?

I can't watch those things, much in the same way I can't watch movies were children are being abused. I don't have the stomach for it (no pun intended)!

[Suburbanite]

If i were to make a list of things humans need to change about themselves, you wouldnt see anything about animals on that list. i feel like torture is SO SO SO much worse than whats happening to these animals, which is gross in a westernized context but pretty common place in the context of the history of man.

[Tycoon]

Am I one of the only few who can watch that video?

The treatment of those animals is terrible. They're not even dead by the time all their fur is off.

I don't think anybody's going to say that this treatment is humane.

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: Suburbanite If i were to make a list of things humans need to change about themselves, you wouldnt see anything about animals on that list. i feel like torture is SO SO SO much worse than whats happening to these animals, which is gross in a westernized context but pretty common place in the context of the history of man.

Are you saying that if you had the chance to, you wouldn't stop this sort of thing? What if it was you they were doing that to? Wouldn't that be torture? Torture isn't limited to humans.

[ShadowFox]

anonymous quote For those of you who can't watch the video, here's a description. The animals are beat into helplessness. Then the skinning begins. The animals are still conscious when they start cutting the fur off at the rear legs. The fur is sliced and then pulled at. Anything attaching the fur to the body is grabbed and hacked off. When the fur is far enough down it is pulled over the animal's head. It almost gives the appearance that they are turning the animal inside-out. Finally all the fur is off.

for someone who wants this to be posted

[shawmutt]

Quote by: Tycoon Am I one of the only few who can watch that video? The treatment of those animals is terrible. They're not even dead by the time all their fur is off. I don't think anybody's going to say that this treatment is humane.

I watched it. It was pretty sad, but no different than what happens to put food on my table between the industrial meat and the millions of critters ground up by a combine on harvest day.

Right now my main concerns are human rights, and since I go out of my way to avoid goods from China (as I'm typing on my made in China computer ) the video really didn't affect me.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: Halofan48 Are you saying that if you had the chance to, you wouldn't stop this sort of thing? What if it was you they were doing that to? Wouldn't that be torture? Torture isn't limited to humans.

Yes, it is. Trust me when I say your perspective only comes from the fact that you live in a world where things like this are done is closed doors and the product comes to you cut up in a package with fancy type. Applying humanitarian ideology to animals is a VERY recent phenomenon and trust me when I say a lot more people than you realize around the world are far more likely to see it my way. Your perspective is privileged. Let them eat cake!

[Ljay23bling]

Quote by: MariKine Sorry, couldn't watch the vid', lol. I'm the biggest animal lover you could find. If an animal has to be killed for food, make it quick for f's sake. /

The sad thing though is that these dogs in this instance aren't being killed for food.

Am I one of the only few who can watch that video?

I guess so. Glad to know that someone else knows where I am coming from.

[atheist]

Quote by: Ljay23bling The sad thing though is that these dogs in this instance aren't being killed for food.

But, being that the video is taken from a chinese farm, they probably are also going to sell the meat for food. I mean, meat is meat. And with a billion numbered population, letting meat like that rot is considered a waste and loss of money.



And to the person who mentioned animal testing, I disagree.

In the US, at least in California (the bay area), it's urged to make sure animals feel the least amount of pain as possible if it can be helped (i.e. as long as injected chemicals don't interfere with test results, I believe a lab would go out of the way to make testing as painless as possible). Because people doing tests on these animals, too, probably own pets and love animals the same way the average urban American does. If labs do end up having to extinguish lives (i.e. to dissect a mouse's brain, for example), then they'll try to kill them as quickly as possible.

In fact, lab animals probably get better treatment than animals raised for food.

[ShadowFox]

What really disturbed me about this is that the animals weren't dead. They were skinned alive. That is simply torture.
here are some online definitions of torture:
Merriam-Webster
thefreedictionary

Since we know animals experience pain, skinning a live animal isn't right. Now yes, people eat meat, I really like steak, but skinning an animal while it is still alive isn't right.

Quote by: Suburbanite Let them eat cake!

Not if getting that cake involves something that isn't right.

[Suburbanite]

You missed my point. Jokes on you. "Let Them Eat Cake" is something Marie Antoinette apparently said when told the poor had no more bread to eat. You sound the same to me. In this case you're passing moral judgement on something intimately apart of humanity by condemning its inhumanity. And thanks for linking me to the dictionary like I don't know what torture means or I haven't read books and seen movies on the subject. Give me a break, Appeal to Merriam, its not a real argument.
yes, its so sad the raccoons or whatever are skinned alive! I cried when I was a baby and I saw Bamby's mom get shot, too. But then I grew up and acquired a taste for venison.

[ShadowFox]

Ok, fine, let me link it to you then. Lets say you and your best friend in the world go to a foreign country. While their, some group captures you
(terrorists, cannibals, whatever, it doesn't really matter). They tie you up, and right in front of you, they beat the crap out of your best friend, then they start cutting his skin off and you get to hear his screams of agony as his flesh is slowly removed from his body. You watch your friend writhe in agony as he is skinned alive. Then they do the same to you. This is whats occurring Suburb. Yes, the people want the fur to keep warm or for fashion, yet it is not necessary to keep these animals alive while they are skinned. Sure, they aren't human, so what, they can still feel pain.