Humane Society: What’s your decision about spaying or neutering pets?

[christibe]

Yes, unfortunately it is another problem we have created for the animals. Since we insist on forcing these creatures to live with us, and due to the way we live in close proximity to one another in towns and cities, they have narrow prospects of living as they naturally would if given the chance since they have little access to resources. Since we have the Humane Society, and other animal control agencies contracted for the search and rescue and killing of 'stray' animals, it is only 'humane' to neuter the animals you bring into your home. Otherwise you open the potential for suffering in the form of unwanted animals who may starve to death in the streets, or be found, kept in cages, and then euthanized. So, I agree that if you are going to keep a companion animal then the responsible action for you to take for that animal's welfare is to have him or her neutered. The Humane Society usually offers very reasonable rates as well for the procedures.

christina-

[Kizzume]

Why can't we do hysterectomies and vasectomies on pets? Why is that so far-fetched?

[christibe]

Quote by: Kizzume Why can't we do hysterectomies and vasectomies on pets? Why is that so far-fetched?

It isn't. You can have a tubal ligation performed on your female animal, or a vasectomy, even via ultrasound Noninvasive vasectomy using a focused ultrasound c...[IEEE Trans Biomed Eng. 2001] - PubMed Result , on your male. They don't need castration or to be spayed, however it'll be difficult to find a vet to perform the procedure, and cost will probably be a factor. These would of course be my preferences as well, Kizzume. :) Thanks for bringing it up. (Most 'pet owners' of females might prefer the spay, though, since the cat won't go into heat, though... especially those who would consider not having their 'pet fixed' at all.)

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: sevendogs I never had a neutered or anyway desexed animals. I breed dogs occasionally, when I know that every puppy will be placed in a right home. We had cats for some time, whcih bred by themselves, but I spared only some litters for a replacement and to supply neighbors. Usually I put all new born kitens in a bucket with water. No problem. Chickes we breed serve as a source of quality poultry meat and eggs.

I almost can't even speak to this post...
How anyone could think that it was "no problem" to drown a defenseless animal in a bucket of water is beyond me. If I had any way to do it, I would report you and gladly watch you go to jail. The difference, by the way, between human sterilization and spaying/neutering your pets is simple for those who care think about it. The sexual drive in humans is subjugated to reason. If you saw someone you found attractive, you would not drop your pants on mainstreet and go at it. A dog would. It is not a drive they can control. We have developed a mutually beneficial relationship with household domesticated animals, but you can not breed the ability to control sexual drives into animals that do not have the brain for it. To maintain the health of the populations and to avoid unnecessary suffering, you should spay and neuter. Ask yourself this, if your choice was no balls, lots of food, shelter, health and living in comfort to the age of 98 OR balls, a life of constant hunger, no shelter and dying from some painful infection at the age of 32, which would you pick? Lets not be silly.

Or better yet, would you rather have a vasectomy or would you rather just down every baby you had you didn't want in a bucket of water, no problem? I still can't believe anyone would think that was an acceptable solution. Just...sick.

[Nemiroff]

No, you don't *KNOW* anything, you're just making baseless claims based on emotion. You have no objective evidence whatsoever to support your claims. Come on back when you can do more than just spout emotional drivel.

Do you even understand the post your bashing? i said the fact that i know go against my emotional drivel, they are agreeing with you, my emotional drivel didn't have any facts, it was emotional.

We're talking about whats better for the pet, and that includes the pets emotions....and yes dogs and cats can feel emotions, they are pretty advanced. This isn't a discussion on quantum physics, or some form of philosophy, emotions actually play a roll here.

And i know that its bad for the puppies. they will probably have short, torturous lives, but would you kill your child to save 1000 lives? would you even give your childs right hand for that? how about his ability to reproduce. Maybe not a child, but your friend that lives with you.

I'm sorry if all this emotion disgusts certain people, but i'm assuming you actually care for the pet in question and not own one as a torture toy or just because.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Nemiroff I'm sorry if all this emotion disgusts certain people, but i'm assuming you actually care for the pet in question and not own one as a torture toy or just because.

If you care for the animal at all, the first thing you're going to do is have it altered, period. It has a happier, longer, healthier life and it's sure a damn sight better than sitting there with a bucket of water, which is plain sick.

[Kizzume]

Quote by: christibe It isn't. You can have a tubal ligation performed on your female animal, or a vasectomy, even via ultrasound Noninvasive vasectomy using a focused ultrasound c...[IEEE Trans Biomed Eng. 2001] - PubMed Result , on your male. They don't need castration or to be spayed, however it'll be difficult to find a vet to perform the procedure, and cost will probably be a factor. These would of course be my preferences as well, Kizzume. :) Thanks for bringing it up. (Most 'pet owners' of females might prefer the spay, though, since the cat won't go into heat, though... especially those who would consider not having their 'pet fixed' at all.)

The element of removing something that important TO THE ANIMAL is something that I don't understand why so many people take so lightly. Especially with the males, I've really seen it destroy them--I think it's an awful thing, but I DO understand why people get it done, and it's important. I just wish that the other options were more readily available and that people even THOUGHT about it besides the really rare individual.

The removal of something that important to an animal in such a nonchalant manner is what I have a problem with. To me, not even THINKING about that is the same kind of mentality that it takes to be able to approve of dogfighting--"oh who cares, they're just dogs, it's not like they're human" kind of attitude.

Now, before people jump down my throat for the last paragraph--I'm ONLY talking about the people who don't even think for 2 seconds about that sort of thing when they are getting their pets spayed or neutered.

[Derach]

Its unbelievably hypocritical to me that taking in a domesticated animal (often paying big bucks for it) to live among human society is respectful to the nature of these beasts, yet spaying or neutering is somehow an infringment on the 'rights' of the animal. But whatever ...

I think it's a personal decision .... you should be a responsible pet owner ... If your mutt dog is jumping a fence and getting onto my property and humping my purebred show dog, or hunting dog ... trust me when I tell you the end result to your beloved pet will be far worse than a 1 hr surgery under the care of a vet. Its about being a responsible pet owner ... feel free to breed if you can ensure good homes for the offspring (not a bucket of water ... for god's sake, I'm pro-abortion and that thought strikes me as 'wrong') ... I have no problem with hunting for food or even for sport ... have no problem with 'exterminating' pests (some of which are cute and fuzzy ... like beavers) ... and am pro responsible gun ownership (and use ... including killing animals when 'necessary') ... but the thought of creating life to then destroy it ... man, what's your last name? ... Mengele? ... That's just troubling and wrong.

And you consider neutering to be inhumane?

Your gonna have Peta freaks throwing cat fetuses through your bedroom window if your not careful. (kidding ... not a threat)

seriously, I have no problem with encouraging spaying/neutering by towns imposing higher fees for unaltered dog licenses, and requirements for shelters to spay or neuter give-aways. It protects more people and animals than it hinders.

Spaying and neutering pets is a good idea ... but I know a lot of people who should be forced to not reproduce either.

[Nemiroff]

"If you care for the animal at all, the first thing you're going to do is have it altered, period. It has a happier, longer, healthier life and it's sure a damn sight better than sitting there with a bucket of water, which is plain sick."

Of course. Without all those diseases that target reproductive organs, people would live longer happier lives, without the constant urge to hump, so let's all go spay snd fix each other and our children. If you chop off your hands you won't get skin cancer there. If you chop off your legs, no more toe fungus. Yes we'll all be happier.

The need to reproduce is the second strongest instinct after survival. Without the urge to hump there would be no dogs or people. And when that part, or the hormones it produces go missing, it is felt.

It just amazes me that pet owners that sound like they care about their pets automatically assume its what's best for their pet just because its public opinion that its better. Dogs are advanced creatures. They may not be able to do deductive reasoning like people or use tools like monkeys. But they have complete personalities and an ability to choose what they want. My dog understands outside, walk, food, chicken and a few other words that I never taught him but he picked up on his own. its sad how we feel we are so much more superior then anything else, we forget that other animals, although not as smart, are not all blind instinct and at least the mammal family all has a sense of self, and varying degrees of intelligence. Perhaps some dogs would rather live without the urge, while at the same time others might feel incomplete much like many men would. I'm not saying either choice is right or wrong, I'm on the fence wondering what is best for my dog (I don't care as much for the puppies or dogs as a greater whole, much like your friends are worth 1000 strangers). But not even thinking about it is repulsive and hypocritical if you claim to care.

I'm not talking about anthropomorphing a roach or bug, but dogs do feel emotions and loss. Very advanced creatures they are.

[Derach]

Domestic dogs exist solely because of human support for them. Dogs and cats (particularly purebred) have 0% chance of survival and integrating in the wild. Because of the unique human dependance most domesticated animals owe to us, we have a responsibility to treat them in a way that is best to incorporate them into society ... whether they like it or not ... like children, they didn't ask to be here .. they are here because of us and we need to ensure their safety and to limit the needless suffering of them AND THEIR OFFSPRING. Like my kid pouting about having to get a cavity filled, or get an innoculation, or get invasive surgury if deemed necessary for him, we have the responsibility to rise above the perceived wants of our animals (or children) to do whats right for them within society. That can be a hard thing to do, but don't let misinterpretations of your animals emotions get in the way of being responsible.

[christibe]

Quote by: Kizzume The element of removing something that important TO THE ANIMAL is something that I don't understand why so many people take so lightly. Especially with the males, I've really seen it destroy them--I think it's an awful thing, but I DO understand why people get it done, and it's important. I just wish that the other options were more readily available and that people even THOUGHT about it besides the really rare individual.

I know, and I share your disgust, that's why I replied with you, but I also wanted to let people know in case their were some who weren't aware that they can get a non-invasive vasectomy for their pup. :)

believe me, i am an animal advocate to the core.

christina-

how did i miss that that guy drowns kittens... thanks everyone for letting him know what a wretched person he is. No problem, right? i hope there is a hell.

[sevendogs]

If spying and neutering is OK, then, I would suggest to begin with spaying and neutering HSUS members first. If animal have equal rights, why they do not approve it for themselves, only for animals?

[Jack]

From the Oregon Veterinary Medical Association:

Altering pets helps prevent the unwanted birth of animals that would be difficult to place into good homes. Sadly, each year more than 15 million dogs and cats are killed because of overpopulation. The spaying and neutering of pets can also reduce their incidence of sex-hormone related diseases. The neutered male cat has a decreased urine odor, less of a tendency to fight and roam, and it is far less inclined to mark its territory by spraying urine. The neutered male dog is also less likely to roam, mark territory, and display aggression toward other dogs. Neutered dogs have fewer prostrate problems, tumors around the anus, and decreased urine odor. The spayed female cat and dog do not have reproductive tract disease problems and both are troubled with significantly fewer cases of mammary cancer. If your pet is going to be a companion animal rather than a breeding animal, then there are no benefits to allowing her to have a litter or to go through a heat period. It is actually healthier for your dog or cat never to experience a heat as it lessen’s the animal’s chance of getting mammary cancer and decreases the animal’s stress and risks due to pregnancy and delivery. Research indicates that dogs spayed prior to their first heat have less than a half of one percent chance of experiencing mammary cancer as compared to an eight percent chance after the second heat. Cats spayed after their first heat have a seven times greater chance of suffering from mammary cancer than cats spayed prior to their first heat.

Some references for those who want to explore the issue further:
Hart BL. "Effects of neutering and spaying on the behavior of dogs and cats: Questions and answers about practical concerns," in JAVMA 1991;198:1204-1205.

Houpt KA, Coren B, Hintz et al. "Effects of sex and reproductive status on sucrose preference, food intake, and body weight of dogs," in JAVMA 1979; 174:1083-1085.

Johnson SD. "Questions and answers on the effects of surgically neutering dogs and cats," in JAVMA 1991;198:1206-1213.

LeRoux PH. "Thyroid status, oestradiol level, work performance and body mass of ovariectomised bitches and bitches bearing ovarian autotransplants in the stomach wall," in J S Afr Vet Assoc 1977;48:115-117.

Marrion, Ruth, DMV. "New Views on Neutering," in _Purebred Dogs/American Kennel Gazette_, April 1992 (pp50-54).

Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. "Gonadectomy in immature dogs: Effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development," in JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203.

Salmeri KR, Olson PN, Bloomberg MS. "Elective gonadectomy in dogs: A review," in JAVMA 1991;198:1183-1191.

Thrusfield MV. "Association between urinary incontinence and spaying bitches," in Vet Rec. 1985;116:695.

Weiss, Seymour N. "Dog Breeding: It's Not for Everyone," in DogsUSA, 1992 Annual, p 121. Vol 7, no 1.

Wilcox, Bonnie, DVM, "Tell Me Why" in Dog Fancy, March 1992 (v23n3), discusses neutering of the male dog.

[christibe]

Quote by: sevendogs If spying and neutering is OK, then, I would suggest to begin with spaying and neutering HSUS members first. If animal have equal rights, why they do not approve it for themselves, only for animals?

No disrespect intended, but this doesn't make sense. It is an appeal to absurdity because as far as I know nobody believes that animals are equal to humans in that we do not share the same capacity to reason, nor do we share the same moral absolutes; and also, since you earlier stated that you drown kittens, and you seem to be saying now that animals have equal rights to humans, are you then saying that you would have no issue in drowning babies?


Sorry to diminish the thread. Thank you Ish for your source material.

[Cephus]

Quote by: sevendogs If spying and neutering is OK, then, I would suggest to begin with spaying and neutering HSUS members first. If animal have equal rights, why they do not approve it for themselves, only for animals?

This coming from the guy who drowns kittens.

[Nemiroff]

"Neutered dogs have fewer prostrate problems, tumors around the anus, and decreased urine odor"

People have testicilar and ovarian cancer as well as similar problems and animal has in any body part, yet it is worth risking those diseases for us, but we deem their reproductive organs expendable. I wonder if the animal you supposedly care about feels the same way about his own parts, or do you not care just because he can't complain. The smell of their piss may be annoying as well but that's even less of a reason for surgery. The disease question is what I'm on the fence about, and I know you were just quoting facts, but it really disgusts me when people being up smell of urine or such things when it comes to removing a body part or any surgery on anything that can't voice it's opinion on the matter.

[Nemiroff]

"It is an appeal to absurdity because as far as I know nobody believes that animals are equal to humans in that we do not share the same capacity to reason"

Are we asking them to solve calculus equations or discover a new planet? You don't need reason to feel. They have as much a capacity for emotion as humans and any mammals do, they can feel loss and pain as well as you or I.

[Nemiroff]

"Ask yourself this, if your choice was no balls, lots of food, shelter, health and living in comfort to the age of 98 OR balls, a life of constant hunger, no shelter and dying from some painful infection at the age of 32"

Are those the only 2 choices? Every inneutered dog must be out on the street? My dog has balls, food and shelter! Amazing!

Also wow! 98 with balls, only 32 without! I'm about to go get my balls chopped, the way you said it it sounds like I'll each 500 easy before dying!

The whole lack of control, well that's why we have a leash. Besides, people used to just come up and start humping each other in the jungle. There weren't too many Dinner and a movie deals in the time of cavemen. Or were we civilized enough to hit the girl on the head and take them home first! Lol.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: Nemiroff "Ask yourself this, if your choice was no balls, lots of food, shelter, health and living in comfort to the age of 98 OR balls, a life of constant hunger, no shelter and dying from some painful infection at the age of 32" Are those the only 2 choices? Every inneutered dog must be out on the street? My dog has balls, food and shelter! Amazing! Also wow! 98 with balls, only 32 without! I'm about to go get my balls chopped, the way you said it it sounds like I'll each 500 easy before dying! The whole lack of control, well that's why we have a leash. Besides, people used to just come up and start humping each other in the jungle. There weren't too many Dinner and a movie deals in the time of cavemen. Or were we civilized enough to hit the girl on the head and take them home first! Lol.

Great googly-moogly! I am not suggesting that every dog and cat be neutered. I am suggesting that if you do not intend to breed, if you do not want a new litter every few months and if you do not want to be responsible for the litter your next door neighbor's dog ends up with or ends up creating, it is best to spay and neuter. Do not turn this issue on it's head. It addresses a very real problem. As anecdotal evidence, I offer this: My mom moved into her present home about seven years ago. There was a ferral cat that had kittens every few months. My mom could never catch the mom, but tried to feed the kittens and get them out of the elements and find them homes. At first, there would be 3 to 5 kittens eating from the food she would put out. A week or so later, one would be squashed on the road the runs in front of her home. Then maybe she would find another dead in the back yard. She would take in and home the ones she could approch and catch. Four of them live with her to this day. Certainly, a sizable percentage did not live long and happy lives. I'm not addressing this to the responsible owner who keeps their dogs and cats leashed and/or contained. This is about those numb-nuts out there who "just let nature run it's course". Dogs and cats are domesticated animals that do not live happy lives when they are not properly cared for. If you must allow your dog to roam, fix it. If you put it in a kennel in your back yard while you are at work, and do not want puppies or kittens by surprise, fix 'em. Really pretty simple. If you raise and breed poodles, I'm not talking to you. Unless, of course, you do not do so responsibly. No drowning the "extras" in buckets of water!

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: freedom13 Do you agree with the Humane Society that cats and dogs, maybe other pets should be spay or neuter?

Why stop with animals? Why not apply the same rationales to the low income and dregs of society that are such a drain on the assets of the ordinary taxpayers? Something like, "Go on welfare, get fixed".