american culture

[bishop]

i was flipping through the channels a week or two ago and stumbled on bowling for columbine.. i thought most of it was garbage, but the interview with marilyn manson was exceptional imo - as were his thoughts. (despite the guy's *different* exterior, he's a very intelligent person.)

he made this statement in relation to the media's spin on the columbine tragedy. but, the context of the statement really seems to characterize much of what i view as wrong with people in our country.

Quote by: m.m. I do know that, and I think that's really ironic, that nobody said 'well maybe the President had an influence on this violent behavior' Because that's not the way the media wants to take it and spin it, and turn it into fear, because then you're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder, cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if you have pimples, the girl's not going to f*ck you, and it's just this campaign of fear, and consumption, and that's what I think it's all based on, the whole idea of 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume.'

when i see the debates here covering everything from religion, who you're voting for, supporting wars of aggression, etc., they all seem to have relevance to m.m.'s statement.

[Milton Bradley]

I would have to agree overall.


This is but part of the danger of living in an engineered society. Particularly this society, because it was created from an alleged "free society", which implies that there is/was no coercion in arriving at the point you find yourself at now.


It's all very sinister.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: bishop ... the interview with marilyn manson was exceptional imo - as were his thoughts.

Yeah, his interview on the O'Reily Factor was great. O'Reily asks him why he is so bizarre, and he explains it so clearly, it makes you look at the media in a whole new light. Also, in the related videos section are Phil Donahue and Henry Rollins.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: bishop i was flipping through the channels a week or two ago and stumbled on bowling for columbine.. i thought most of it was garbage, but the interview with marilyn manson was exceptional imo - as were his thoughts. (despite the guy's *different* exterior, he's a very intelligent person.)

The first time I heard Gene Simmons speaking, it was on an interview with Ben Stein on his short lived talk show on Comedy Central, I was similarly amazed. The whole Kiss thing was just Gene's idea on a way to make money (and pick up chicks) off the culture of the late '70s, and make money he did (along with a lot of chicks). The man is actually extremely brilliant so hearing such about Marilyn Manson is not a surprise at all.

Quote by: bishop he made this statement in relation to the media's spin on the columbine tragedy. but, the context of the statement really seems to characterize much of what i view as wrong with people in our country. when i see the debates here covering everything from religion, who you're voting for, supporting wars of aggression, etc., they all seem to have relevance to m.m.'s statement.

Which all ties into the recent shootings in Nebraska (and most every other example we can come up with). There are a lot of people who are going to make it an issue of guns, but, is that the real problem?

This kid was "socialized" in government schools, as many say all children should be. He was heavily medicated by directive of the state because of his behavior. In fact, I have heard that he had been made a "ward of the state".

Chances are, the "socialization" he underwent was to be a victim. As I've said elsewhere, socialization in government schools means you're a bully, a victim or a nobody. Virtually all of these people have been the victims in such "socialization".

And, of course, when they fail to be protected from the bullies by the government schools that are supposed to make us all "equal", some of these kids lash out.

Columbine, Virginia Tech, Omaha, virtually every shooting by the 16-20 year old kids fits the exact same pattern.

Of course, everyone wants to blame the guns (and, especially Michael Moore), because our government schools couldn't have any culpability.

Keith

[bishop]

Quote by: keith The man is actually extremely brilliant so hearing such about Marilyn Manson is not a surprise at all.

i was a really big fan of his when i was in high school. heh, even went out as him to a halloween party. i wasn't an outcast whatsoever, although i didn't fit in at the same time. had plenty of girlfriends, friends, always someone to hang out with, etc.. played sports (hockey, baseball, soccer).. at the same time, i was (and still am) very much a *fly on the wall*. i found myself to be best friends with other outcasts, even though i had friends with people from every random clique. i identified with manson for sure, even if i didn't fully understand the content of his lyrics - i understood the point of his image very well.

Quote by: keith Of course, everyone wants to blame the guns (and, especially Michael Moore), because our government schools couldn't have any culpability.

i completely agree.. although, these issues are hardly isolated to children. there are plenty of adults who act out their nearly identical issues in various ways.

it's interesting how so much consumption can be a direct result of one's own sense of fear, characterized as poor self-esteem, etc.. guys who buy the hot sports cars, women who dress like sluts, people who feed themselves into obesity, cut throats at the corporate world who succeed by walking over everyone, people who buy into war mongering thanks to fear filled rhetoric, etc...

in the corporate world, you're supposed to conform. go to the corporate events, parties, laugh at the bad jokes, engage in team building, find the positives in everything even if they are few and far between.. i get to deal with this fun a lot at my job, where my boss (a director) is utterly full of it. i don't need to conform to be successful, never have and never will.

i just flipped on cnn's website and here are a few of their top headlines:

1. gunman opens fire at colorado megachurch
2. pig farmer found guilty of six murders
3. student arrested in online campus threats

and right next to those headlines, and splattered all over their pages are ads for crap to buy.

[Milton Bradley]

Hmmm, it's almost as if one could make the case the totally disenfranchised people will act out in fits of rage against the machine, sort of like a "terrorist".


Perhaps this goes a long way toward their sudden fear of "terrorism", and their concern for what they can define as "terrorism" in the legal code.

[Compugasm]

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: bishop i just flipped on cnn's website and here are a few of their top headlines: 1. gunman opens fire at colorado megachurch

OK. I just read this, haven't had a TV on all day and have been surfing various websites not paying attention to the news.

As soon as I saw this, being in Colorado Springs, I thought immediately that this had to be New Life, and, sure enough, I go to Yahoo and there it is.

These people are nutcases. Over 10,000 of them and, as far as I can tell, just like all the rest of the evangelical, non-denominational churches out there, they are real freaks.

This is the church where Ted Haggard preached against homosexuality and was having gay relations with a male prostitute in Denver. Something like this happening there is absolutely no surprise to me.

But, I bet if we actually find out more, this person who did this was the outcast, the victim. In school and in business. Because we've all been socialized by our government schools to be the bully, the victim or the nobody.

Keith

[Nemiroff]

The news is bull and is more for propaganda then for education, and that the socialization of this country is enough to drive me nuts. I agree with all that, but I don't see where commercials.

"they make you buy things you don't need" is the common phrase against commercials, but that's a matter of opinion and many may argue that they may not need it, but they want it.

I know what I don't want, to pay for TV and radio, to have all my services tripled in price because the bus got rid of the ads on its side. All those websites allow free access because they get their money from the ads, do you really think they would put work into a website if they weren't making money from ads or subscriptions?

[Athena]

Quote by: bishop i was flipping through the channels a week or two ago and stumbled on bowling for columbine.. i thought most of it was garbage, but the interview with marilyn manson was exceptional imo - as were his thoughts. (despite the guy's *different* exterior, he's a very intelligent person.) he made this statement in relation to the media's spin on the columbine tragedy. but, the context of the statement really seems to characterize much of what i view as wrong with people in our country. when i see the debates here covering everything from religion, who you're voting for, supporting wars of aggression, etc., they all seem to have relevance to m.m.'s statement.

This did not always define our culture. We valued being humble and God fearing, as opposed to being paranoid, as in an excessive need to be superior and in control. Like it or not, the change in the US culture, began with the change in public education. Now the US is as paranoid as Germany was, when Hitler was leading the New World Order.

What goes with this is excessively impersonal education, which teachers have been taught to provide. The reasoning is all students should be treated as equals to avoid any favoritism. This education is programming the young to serve the Military/Industrial Complex, it is not about preparing them for life as past liberal education did. The teachers and staff will be technologically correct, but be lacking in communication skills and the ability to relate as one human being to another.

Before Columbine got our attention, it was Kip Kinkle at Thruston High, a few blocks from my home. Kip's parents were teachers and he had all the advantages money could buy, but he had a learning disability that was ignored, and became such an emotional problem Kip killed his parents and then went to school the next day and killed everyone he could. The whole thing could have been prevented if the principle could have related to him as a young man needing help.

My daughter attended the school, and the problem was not just Kip Kinkle. The principle and teachers had terrible social skills when interacting with anyone who wasn't in their inner group. The school was excessively impersonally and ignored information provided by parents. The Mayor will not send his children to the school, because he knows it would be harmful to his children, and while he continues to support the building of over priced homes on hills prone to land slides, he has no interest in improving the school. That is Springfield. We live in Eugene now. Springfield is clickish and authoritarian. Eugene is liberal. Springfeild police seem to kill someone about once a month. That doesn't happen in Eugene. So yes, when kids kill there is apt to be a culture problem.

[Athena]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger OK. I just read this, haven't had a TV on all day and have been surfing various websites not paying attention to the news. As soon as I saw this, being in Colorado Springs, I thought immediately that this had to be New Life, and, sure enough, I go to Yahoo and there it is. These people are nutcases. Over 10,000 of them and, as far as I can tell, just like all the rest of the evangelical, non-denominational churches out there, they are real freaks. This is the church where Ted Haggard preached against homosexuality and was having gay relations with a male prostitute in Denver. Something like this happening there is absolutely no surprise to me. But, I bet if we actually find out more, this person who did this was the outcast, the victim. In school and in business. Because we've all been socialized by our government schools to be the bully, the victim or the nobody. Keith

Springfeild took a very active position against gays. Eugene has at least one gay bar, and gays are comfortable enough to let everyone know they are gay.