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Jay · Jul 7, 2004, 05:55 am

Well, haven't posted here in a long time but in connection with my military/civil duties in Germany I recently thought a bit about the military draft here...

I actually just came back from the physical examination in connection with the military draft that was instated after the second world war and ever since has been a part of young men's life here in Germany.
Many people I know try to dodge it by going to their doctors and getting official notifications about all their injuries, former broken bones, allergies and even mental illnesses (which are in fact the most important factor if you want to get discharged) but I decieded to actually do my service.
I see it as a chance to earn some money, make practical experiences and to prepare myself for university life.

They rated me suitable for military sercive with restrictions for certain tasks, but I am going to refuse the military sercive according to the german law.

Article 4, paragraph 3 of the german law reads the following: "No one can be forced into the armed military sercive against his conscience"

It feels kind of strange that the only reason to refuse the military service in order to do your civil service is that you could never hold a weapon up against a person or even kill someone and that you can not harmonize your conscience to the fact of killing.
Sure, this is what I think is right but I still think we should be able to just choose which service we want to do.

And there's also the possibility that the justification of your refusal might get denied since you didn't display properly enough why you are not able to hold a weapon and to kill on demand.

Is it right to force young people into the military service by not letting them directly choose? There might also be people who can not articulate themselves that well but still think that killing and an organized military institution are not the answer to the problems in this world. We have no insight in which refusals of military service get accepted and which don't. Isn't the reference to your conscience too vague for a law and shouldn't each person be given the right to choose which service to do or even if he wants to serve at all?

I'm off to write my refusal...

Paavo · Jul 7, 2004, 07:24 am

We've got a similar system here in Finland. I'm waiting to start my civil service - it's starting in a few months.
Even though 95% of our young men choose the military service, it is easy to check a box in a paper with two options:
"I choose civil service instead of military because of;
[] Religious reasons
[] Ethic reasons"

I checked the "Ethic" one, and that was it. You can also refuse totally from any service - and spend a few months in jail.

Jay · Jul 8, 2004, 03:59 pm

heh, looks like you can simply choose, we have to write a detailed explanation of why we refuse the military service which should be at least 2 pages long.

castille · Jul 10, 2004, 12:59 pm

They have compulsory service in Europe?

Why are Americans complaining then?

Jul 10, 2004, 12:59 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	They have compulsory service in Europe? Why are Americans complaining then? Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jul 7, 2004, 05:55 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Jay Molten Ash Location: germany Posts: 36	Well, haven't posted here in a long time but in connection with my military/civil duties in Germany I recently thought a bit about the military draft here... I actually just came back from the physical examination in connection with the military draft that was instated after the second world war and ever since has been a part of young men's life here in Germany. Many people I know try to dodge it by going to their doctors and getting official notifications about all their injuries, former broken bones, allergies and even mental illnesses (which are in fact the most important factor if you want to get discharged) but I decieded to actually do my service. I see it as a chance to earn some money, make practical experiences and to prepare myself for university life. They rated me suitable for military sercive with restrictions for certain tasks, but I am going to refuse the military sercive according to the german law. Article 4, paragraph 3 of the german law reads the following: "No one can be forced into the armed military sercive against his conscience" It feels kind of strange that the only reason to refuse the military service in order to do your civil service is that you could never hold a weapon up against a person or even kill someone and that you can not harmonize your conscience to the fact of killing. Sure, this is what I think is right but I still think we should be able to just choose which service we want to do. And there's also the possibility that the justification of your refusal might get denied since you didn't display properly enough why you are not able to hold a weapon and to kill on demand. Is it right to force young people into the military service by not letting them directly choose? There might also be people who can not articulate themselves that well but still think that killing and an organized military institution are not the answer to the problems in this world. We have no insight in which refusals of military service get accepted and which don't. Isn't the reference to your conscience too vague for a law and shouldn't each person be given the right to choose which service to do or even if he wants to serve at all? I'm off to write my refusal...

Jul 7, 2004, 07:24 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	We've got a similar system here in Finland. I'm waiting to start my civil service - it's starting in a few months. Even though 95% of our young men choose the military service, it is easy to check a box in a paper with two options: "I choose civil service instead of military because of; [] Religious reasons [] Ethic reasons" I checked the "Ethic" one, and that was it. You can also refuse totally from any service - and spend a few months in jail.

Jul 8, 2004, 03:59 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Jay Molten Ash Location: germany Posts: 36	heh, looks like you can simply choose, we have to write a detailed explanation of why we refuse the military service which should be at least 2 pages long.