New York manhole covers, forged barefoot in India

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

New York manhole covers, forged barefoot in India - International Herald Tribune

Eight thousand miles from New York, barefoot, shirtless, whip-thin men rippled with muscle were forging prosaic pieces of the urban jigsaw puzzle: manhole covers. Seemingly impervious to the heat from the metal, the workers at one of West Bengal's many foundries relied on strength and bare hands rather than machinery. Safety precautions were barely in evidence; just a few pairs of eye goggles were seen in use on a recent visit. The foundry, Shakti Industries in Haora, produces manhole covers for Con Edison and New York City's Department of Environmental Protection, as well as for departments in New Orleans and Syracuse.

International trade where local working conditions enable cheaper and more profitable production?

[Milton Bradley]

You gotta love those Liberal New Yorkers for selling out the working stiff while they claim to be protecting him.


But I'm sure Americans wouldn't want those jobs, right? I mean, you might actually have to sweat to produce those things.


What, you want more? Vote establishment, and they'll serve up some more, I promise.


Now theres a political promise that's pretty much carved in stone.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: Milton Bradley You gotta love those Liberal New Yorkers for selling out the working stiff while they claim to be protecting him. But I'm sure Americans wouldn't want those jobs, right? I mean, you might actually have to sweat to produce those things. What, you want more? Vote establishment, and they'll serve up some more, I promise. Now theres a political promise that's pretty much carved in stone.

Milton it's not just the sweat that would put off the West

(see next post)

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

OK due to the silence, let’s consider some possible interests in this article.

Obviously cheaper manhole covers for New York and other inspired cities etc.

The global economy benefits of trade with other countries and thus the improvement in local cash flow and employment.

However this for me shows the main difference between the third world (does India’s status and trading ability still qualify this, he ponders), and the Western nations hampered in the EU by molly coddling legislation purporting to provide safety for workers and in the US the high levels of litigation that result in employers fearing either the unions or worse the claim lawyers.

The foundry-men featured appear fit and well cared for. They undoubtedly have skills way beyond our comprehension working with molten metal in a loin cloth and bare feet. They have learnt there trade and are attentive and aware of the hazards they face. Our Western expectations mean we would not consider this acceptable.

But any craftpersons’ or artisans, worth their salt, are skilled and safe workers, their expectations and codes go beyond the nanny state, the union and scared lawyers. They appreciate the hazards and learn the correct ways to avoid them.

Yes we in the West need to rethink our view of such people and also our expectations of learning to do a manual job safely, with minimum practical precautions.

Do you agree?

Or

Do you not care?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel OK due to the silence, let’s consider some possible interests in this article. Obviously cheaper manhole covers for New York and other inspired cities etc. The global economy benefits of trade with other countries and thus the improvement in local cash flow and employment. However this for me shows the main difference between the third world (does India’s status and trading ability still qualify this, he ponders), and the Western nations hampered in the EU by molly coddling legislation purporting to provide safety for workers and in the US the high levels of litigation that result in employers fearing either the unions or worse the claim lawyers. The foundry-men featured appear fit and well cared for. They undoubtedly have skills way beyond our comprehension working with molten metal in a loin cloth and bare feet. They have learnt there trade and are attentive and aware of the hazards they face. Our Western expectations mean we would not consider this acceptable. But any craftpersons’ or artisans, worth their salt, are skilled and safe workers, their expectations and codes go beyond the nanny state, the union and scared lawyers. They appreciate the hazards and learn the correct ways to avoid them. Yes we in the West need to rethink our view of such people and also our expectations of learning to do a manual job safely, with minimum practical precautions. Do you agree? Or Do you not care?

I think Western nations need to give up their arrogance and stop judging other cultures by the values of Western "civilization."

[brien]

I say working conditions anywhere outside the jurisdiction of the US can't be affected by the US.. If the working conditions are what has been described, let the people who are responsible for them clean them up. Because the US may purchase a commodity sourced in another country, how can one expect the US to be responsible for those working conditions? Please. Place the blame where it needs to be applied, at the source.

I suppose we could pressure people not to buy these goods, and then the vendor will perhaps go out of business, and the workers will then all be out of work. Throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. Maybe one should ask the workers what they would like. Work or no work?

People who blame the buyer for the working conditions of the vendor don't understand the basics of trade.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel OK due to the silence, let’s consider some possible interests in this article. Obviously cheaper manhole covers for New York and other inspired cities etc. The global economy benefits of trade with other countries and thus the improvement in local cash flow and employment. However this for me shows the main difference between the third world (does India’s status and trading ability still qualify this, he ponders), and the Western nations hampered in the EU by molly coddling legislation purporting to provide safety for workers and in the US the high levels of litigation that result in employers fearing either the unions or worse the claim lawyers. The foundry-men featured appear fit and well cared for. They undoubtedly have skills way beyond our comprehension working with molten metal in a loin cloth and bare feet. They have learnt there trade and are attentive and aware of the hazards they face. Our Western expectations mean we would not consider this acceptable. But any craftpersons’ or artisans, worth their salt, are skilled and safe workers, their expectations and codes go beyond the nanny state, the union and scared lawyers. They appreciate the hazards and learn the correct ways to avoid them. Yes we in the West need to rethink our view of such people and also our expectations of learning to do a manual job safely, with minimum practical precautions. Do you agree? Or Do you not care?

My issues arise about how the legislation was passed into law, and about the language in those agreements.


I feel that the Nanny State mentality needn't apply where the parts are being produced if those people don't want them.


This is really about forced globalism, and I'm staunchly anti forced globalism.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: brien I say working conditions anywhere outside the jurisdiction of the US can't be affected by the US.. If the working conditions are what has been described, let the people who are responsible for them clean them up. Because the US may purchase a commodity sourced in another country, how can one expect the US to be responsible for those working conditions? Please. Place the blame where it needs to be applied, at the source. I suppose we could pressure people not to buy these goods, and then the vendor will perhaps go out of business, and the workers will then all be out of work. Throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. Maybe one should ask the workers what they would like. Work or no work? People who blame the buyer for the working conditions of the vendor don't understand the basics of trade.

brien where do you get the idea I offer blame to anyone

I praise the way these guys work and show skills beyond those exhibited in the nanny US & EU states.

I envy the fact they can produce goods with these skills and lay no blame at all on the entrepanuers whom benefit from such industry

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel brien where do you get the idea I offer blame to anyone I praise the way these guys work and show skills beyond those exhibited in the nanny US & EU states. I envy the fact they can produce goods with these skills and lay no blame at all on the entrepanuers whom benefit from such industry

You are absolutely right. I would advocate that the only people, given adequate disclosures and external opportunities, that should have an input into working conditions should be the employers and employees.

If those in India are willing to work in those conditions for the benefit of those in "enlightened" New York, who is to stop those in Michigan from doing the same, if they so choose. Those millions in New York seem to feel they have the right to dictate the working conditions in Michigan, but take advantage of the poverty in India.

How is that right?

Keith