Smoking: Should it be allowed?

[Whatssnew]

I feel that you can do whatever you want, so long as I don't have to particapate in it, (second hand smoke.) I work in a hotel and you would be supprised at the sheer dissrespect smokers commonly have. They leave there butts everywhere, they leave burn marks, and most of all the room will smell like smoke for a week. This means people will get angry at me because there non-smoking room smells like smoke. Smoking in the room also means that furnature is pernimately tainted with the smell. The walls will need to be washed before we can paint, or the paint will flake off. Smokers will try to hide it by going in the bathroom and turning on the fan, they will stand by a window and try to blow it out of the room, they also love to destroy smoke alarms. Do smokers not realize how much of a pain they are? Localy there are at least a few fires each year started by smokers throwing butts out their window. Have you ever thought of how they are knocking up the health insurance cost? Or medical bills? I would say that 9 out of 10 smokers our frequently dissrespectfull of others, and don't really care how you feel so long as it makes them feel good. I think that it should be illeagal to smoke in any public place, or around people under 18. I feel the drug abuse habit should not be encouraged to children. Smokers should only be allowed to smoke in there car or in a house that has no kids. What do you think? P.S. If you see a smoker toss a cigarett out there window pick it up and throw it right back in. You'll have fun with that one, and you may get a point accross.

[jazz fork Gun]

I really don't like the idea of smoking at all =P

I have bad asthma, so it's not so great when I'm around a lit cigarette, or in the house / car of someone who smokes. I start to cough and gag and I try to filtre my breathing air through my tee-shirt.

I think if someone wants to kill themselves by smoking, let them do it. They just shouldn't do it around any one else. However, if attempted suicide is against the law, why isn't smoking? And if murder and manslaughter are extreme crimes, shouldn't killing one's own friends or family by second hand smoke be too?

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: new I feel that you can do whatever you want, so long as I don't have to particapate in it, (second hand smoke.)

You don't have to participate in second hand smoke. Just stay away from venues which allow smoking.

Quote by: new Have you ever thought of how they are knocking up the health insurance cost? Or medical bills?

Have you ever thought about the massive taxes paid on tobacco and the economic benefits of this huge industry?

Quote by: new I would say that 9 out of 10 smokers our frequently dissrespectfull of others, and don't really care how you feel so long as it makes them feel good.

Seventy eight percent of statistics are made up on the spot.

Do you have any evidence?

Quote by: new I think that it should be illeagal to smoke in any public place, or around people under 18.

As long as by place, you mean enclosed place, and by public, you mean publically owned, I agree.

Quote by: new Smokers should only be allowed to smoke in there car or in a house that has no kids. What do you think?

Why not a bar or restaurant? If the owner of a house can allow smoking, why can't the owner of a bar do likewise? Both establishments are privately owned, neither owner is forcing people to enter the smoky environment, and there does not exist an unconditional right to be in either establishment.

And why not in the street? There's no evidence to suggest that smoking in an open area can harm those around you.

[Osborn F Enready]

Whatsnew, why work someplace where you are exposed to smoke then?

Why should people who seek accomadation that suit them (smokers), affect you?

You have as much choice not to work around smoke, as people who smoke have not to smoke.

To me, you seem like you're whining because all people aren't like you, and you would use force to stop those not like you, if you could. I can't respect that.

[Praxius]

Before you complain about second hand smoke from ciggs, perhaps you should first divert your attention to all the poisons in the air let out by millions of vehicles's exaust systems every hour of the day, which anybody who drives or uses vehicles are all equally responsible for.

I got a beef with people who drink alcohol.... I hate how obnoxious they are, how violent and volitile many are.... I hate how stupid people get while drunk. I hate the people who drink and drive.... I hate sitting by people who are drunk on the bus who stink like alcohol.....

..... I hate how these alcoholics around the world are a constant burden on our society..... I hate those who purchase alcohol for minors and promote the drug abuse... I hate seeing smashed bottles all around the roads and sidewalks from these drunks.......

..... But do you think I have any remote chance at forcing all these people to do what I like?

Nope.... because where do you draw the line on telling people what to do with themselves and the things they intake into their bodies?

Oh but smoking affects others around them from 2nd hand smoke.....

..... well drunks who drive affect others around them when they hit and kill someone..... which is a quicker death you have little avoidance from.

People do all kinds of things that piss other's off... but none of us have any right to dictate to anyone else how to live their lives.

The room reeks of smoke when you clean and the furniture is stained with stink?

Exactly how many bed sheets and curtains do you end up washing with incrusted semen and fecal matter all over them? Those can be a health hazzard too..... should they somehow restrict the freedoms permitted in the rooms? Should there be security cameras placed in the rooms so you can track and fine those who do these things in the rooms?

Take the good with the bad in your jobs.... don't like them, then find another profession or an alternative solution.

[Epistemologist]

This is where my post goes.

Quote by: Epistemologist Some proponents for drug control such as Wilson want to ban some drugs because they debase human life. That is, those drugs minimize the autonomy that Kant would say defines us as human beings. This autonomy could even be at threat when we become addicted to the drugs, and thus, addictive agents such as cigarettes should be banned because people who use them lose their ability to choose to continue as they are addicted and thereby lose their autonomy to some extent. However, many authors only go so far as to say drugs like crack cocaine, which causes users to go into violent states, should be banned, because they cause harm to not only the user but also the rest of society. Even normal people who use crack can go into homicidal fits. These authors are along the lines of Mill when it comes to freedom; he says that we should only stop someone from doing something when it will harm others. Along these lines, crack, should be banned. But what about cigarettes? We would have to find that secondhand smoke, for instance, causes significant, uncontrollable harm to society. While it may kill a lot of people, it may be reasonable to suggest that instead of banning cigarettes, we could simply regulate them. We could, for instance, make closed rooms designed just for cigarette smokers, whereas they may not smoke anywhere else. We must ask the question if attempting to regulate smoking will be effective though. But alas, there is also the mentioned concern for the loss of autonomy and the debasement of human life. The debasement of human life is harm at a different level than some bad consequences documented by statistics. If we could say that cigarette smoking debases human life, then surely, I would say ban it.

[AndyF]

In Britain smoking in public places is banned, but banning smoking completely takes away essential freedoms.

[another day]

This is insane. Contrary to the delusional believes of non-smokers, it's THEM that are inconsiderate towards other people with their whiney oversensitive disregard to other people's wishes.

Life's not comfortable 100% of the time. You can't always get your way. If a hotel wants to allow it's guests to smoke in certain rooms, then you should find another job if you find it "ooky" to pick up cigarette butts. God knows theres alot more disgusting things you have to do during the course of many other jobs. If guests are smoking in rooms designated non-smoking then they of course are in violation of the hotel rules and most hotels will charge a large fee when people do that. To cover the extra cleaning that you apparently are so whiny about doing. IT'S PART OF YOUR JOB. YOU GET PAID FOR IT.

[Osborn F Enready]

I agree another day.

To think that because someone doesn't like something about a private business, they think they have the right to use the law as a cudgel to make that business comply is ridiculous.

That would be like a non-smoker walking into a smokers house by invitation, and demanding the police come and arrest the home-owner for smoking on his own property.

[Praxius]

Quote by: another day IT'S PART OF YOUR JOB. YOU GET PAID FOR IT.

Actually I felt like bitching out the cleaners here at work once apon a time.... I was sick for about a month, hacking all kinds of goop out of my lungs and sitting at the desk constantly doing this, you can't just get up and head to the bathroom every 2 mins, so I lobbed them all in the garbage can with the rest of my tissues and such.

I get a complaint about a week later from the cleaners saying the garbage was disgusting and asked if I could spit while I was sick in the bathroom..... which made no damn sense since I would be probably spitting my flem into the garbage there as well.

And the fact that for a month they just dumped my can, rather then taking the enitre bag and all out like one would think they should do, therefore I continually had the same gross ass bag in my garbage can, clearly shows their lack of ability to do their job.

Their job is to clean up the damn place and clean out the garbage cans.... last I checked, garbage cans are not filled with flowers and pixies.... they're filled with garbage and filth.

You think my mother gets to choose not to clean out the biohazard containers at the hospital or bitch at the diabetics for their needles, etc.?

Do you think I get to refuse work to clients because they supply me with half-assed artwork for their projects because they don't know any better?

It's part of the job.... if you hate that part of the job, then perhaps you are not working at the job you truly enjoy.

[Nono]

Quote by: Bakin If the owner of a house can allow smoking, why can't the owner of a bar do likewise? Both establishments are privately owned, neither owner is forcing people to enter the smoky environment, and there does not exist an unconditional right to be in either establishment.

OK, provided I can leave the establishment (bill paid on a proportional basis of service rendered up to that point) the second some shithead lights a cigarette in the vicinity and starts invading my space with it. OK?

... enclosed place ...

The street is an enclosed space once you can't avoid inhaling my smoke.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Whatssnew I feel that you can do whatever you want, so long as I don't have to particapate in it, (second hand smoke.) I work in a hotel and you would be supprised at the sheer dissrespect smokers commonly have. They leave there butts everywhere, they leave burn marks, and most of all the room will smell like smoke for a week. This means people will get angry at me because there non-smoking room smells like smoke. Smoking in the room also means that furnature is pernimately tainted with the smell. The walls will need to be washed before we can paint, or the paint will flake off. Smokers will try to hide it by going in the bathroom and turning on the fan, they will stand by a window and try to blow it out of the room, they also love to destroy smoke alarms. Do smokers not realize how much of a pain they are? Localy there are at least a few fires each year started by smokers throwing butts out their window. Have you ever thought of how they are knocking up the health insurance cost? Or medical bills? I would say that 9 out of 10 smokers our frequently dissrespectfull of others, and don't really care how you feel so long as it makes them feel good. I think that it should be illeagal to smoke in any public place, or around people under 18. I feel the drug abuse habit should not be encouraged to children. Smokers should only be allowed to smoke in there car or in a house that has no kids. What do you think? P.S. If you see a smoker toss a cigarett out there window pick it up and throw it right back in. You'll have fun with that one, and you may get a point accross.

And who the hell do you think you are to insist that ingesting the fumes from certain plants should not be allowed?

If you don't like smoke, don't go near smokers! I don't happen to like cigarettes but I do enjoy an occasional pipe full of tobacco or, more often, a decent cigar. Don't expect me to take too kindly to people like you trying to curb my right to such simple pleasures! If I'm walking down the street smoking my cigar and you happen to be approaching, I'm considerate enough not to blow the smoke in your face but don't expect me to do anything more than that.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Praxius Before you complain about second hand smoke from ciggs, perhaps you should first divert your attention to all the poisons in the air let out by millions of vehicles's exaust systems every hour of the day, which anybody who drives or uses vehicles are all equally responsible for.

And the obnoxious fumes of all those women dousing themselves in perfume![/quote]

[AndyF]

Regarding the workers of bars and hotels. In Britain the argument was not about cleaning up ciggerretes, it was against workers bretahing in customers smoke. Also in a bar or hotel, those people who do not want to smoke have to breathe in other peoples smoke.
And a street is not an enclosed space.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Nono OK, provided I can leave the establishment (bill paid on a proportional basis of service rendered up to that point) the second some shithead lights a cigarette in the vicinity and starts invading my space with it. OK?

Excluding the time taken to stand up, pay the bill and walk to the door, yes you can leave the second someone lights up. No one is keeping you there. Although if you hate smoking that much, I would question what you're doing in a smoking establishment in the first place.

Quote by: Nono The street is an enclosed space once you can't avoid inhaling my smoke.

No it isn't. There's no roof.

[Praxius]

If streets were considdered enclosed areas, then driving cars there would be considdered illegal due to health reasons, as the exaust wouldn't escape anywhere..... come on now....

Unless you considder the atmosphere or ozone as the enclosing space..... but we all know the Ozone has holes in it, so it's technically not enclosed

[Osborn F Enready]

Prax said: If streets were considdered enclosed areas, then driving cars there would be considdered illegal due to health reasons, as the exaust wouldn't escape anywhere..... come on now....

Woah there sir! Are you citing logic in a logic free zone? And just what do you attempt to get from this?

[Nono]

Quote by: Bakin I would question what you're doing in a smoking establishment in the first place.

Quite right. And I duly withhold my custom, rest assured.

Quote by: Prax If streets were considdered enclosed areas, then driving cars there would be considdered illegal due to health reasons, as the exaust wouldn't escape anywhere..... come on now....

If some numbskull smokes on the street and I inhale it while going about my business, he's imposing on me his own suicidal behaviour. He's infringing my right to a healthy lifestyle.

As for cars, I'm all for banning them from the streets, yep.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Nono If some numbskull smokes on the street and I inhale it while going about my business, he's imposing on me his own suicidal behaviour. He's infringing my right to a healthy lifestyle. As for cars, I'm all for banning them from the streets, yep.

Well there ya go, at least your consistant with your logic. However, it won't happen to the extent you wish.

Where I am in Canada (Not sure of your area) no one is permitted to smoke withing 10 feet or so from an entrance or ventilation of a building. No one is permitted to smoke inside bars, resturants, and now in Wolfville, you can not smoke in your own car is someone under the age of 18 is inside the vehicle. You can not smoke out on public decks and patios......

I'm pretty sure you have enough designated areas which are now smoke free.... I doubt you are going to ever win a fight for the open space of Earth as being smoke 100% free... ain't logically happening.

And besides, even back when I didn't smoke and I hated it, if someone was smoking near me as I walked by or whatever, I knew they were smoking from a good distance away... which gives you and I plenty of time to know what's going to happen when you come pass me......

..... Hold your breath for 3 seconds until you pass.... wow... you get the rest of the world smoke free until the next 3 seconds as you pass a smoker.

And don't forget.... that's 3 seconds you're holding your breath, that us smokers don't have to hear you complain so it balances out.

[jazz fork Gun]

Big argument motifs:
No one's forcing you to second-hand smoke.
Wrong, sometimes. What if you're a child and you live with your smoking parents but you hate it? You have no where else to go so you have to suffer through it until you're eighteen. Fun.

Hold your breath.
Sometimes you don't notice, like if they pass you from behind or you're just not very alert.

Mentioning other yucky things.
Well this thread is about *smoking*, not too much perfume [which gives me just as bad an asthma attack as sitting next to a smoker does, believe it or not] or car exhaust. Heck I'd just as soon outlaw perfume as cigarettes, but that's not the point.