Seven years jail for gay hate preachers (UK)

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Seven years jail for gay hate preachers - Telegraph

People convicted of stirring up hatred against homosexuals face up to seven years in jail under a new law. Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, told MPs that existing prohibitions against race and religious incitement would be extended to cover ''homo-phobic" behaviour. His statement prompted fears among Christian organisations that they could be prosecuted for preaching that homosexuality was wrong. There would also be concern that playground insults or jokes about gays could be caught by the new offence unless strict safeguards were included. Mr Straw said he would amend the Criminal Justice Bill to make it unlawful to use threatening words or behaviour on the grounds of sexual orientation.

The UK is becoming over politicaly correct and this is extremely sad

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: article His statement prompted fears among Christian organisations that they could be prosecuted for preaching that homosexuality was wrong.

It's about time somebody put a stop to all lf the hate speech emminating from the church.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley It's about time somebody put a stop to all lf the hate speech emminating from the church.

Someone will undoubtly try and take it to far. Attempting to bad the bible in general on the basis its discriminatory for example.

[The Bacon Guy]

To ban something so totally subjective is yet another example of the majority forcing its subjective morality onto a powerless minority. That's where unrestrained democracy gets you.

And why is this just about religion, race and homosexuality? If there is now a right not to be hated, why does this law not extend to far right politicians, to paedophiles, and to the racists and homophobes themselves? No objective standard makes Islam or homosexuality any more worthy of proetection than these. It seems this law is concerned neither with equality nor with freedom.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy To ban something so totally subjective is yet another example of the majority forcing its subjective morality onto a powerless minority. That's where unrestrained democracy gets you. And why is this just about religion, race and homosexuality? If there is now a right not to be hated, why does this law not extend to far right politicians, to paedophiles, and to the racists and homophobes themselves? No objective standard makes Islam or homosexuality any more worthy of proetection than these. It seems this law is concerned neither with equality nor with freedom.

This is a slippery slope. When all politically incorrect speech becomes banned, then what? Or, what happens when the definition of what's politically incorrect changes?

[Jack]

It's a sad commentary on religion that churches fear their ability to denounce people could be constrained by a law. Is their need to demean others so important to their faith?

[another day]

So much for free speech.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: another day So much for free speech.

Is free speech a protected part of British law?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel Seven years jail for gay hate preachers - Telegraph The UK is becoming over politicaly correct and this is extremely sad

He should have been preaching about hating Jews and then he would have been reward considering how the UK is now-a-days.

But I digress, what happen to free speech? As long as they were inciting violence against gays, then it should be protected. But not condoned.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Helio Is free speech a protected part of British law?

Freedom of expression is protected under article 10 of the European convention of human rights. However, it does say "subect to certain restrictions", which is basically a get-out clause for any authoritarian government which wishes to supress this right.

Quote by: Ish It's a sad commentary on religion that churches fear their ability to denounce people could be constrained by a law.

We should all fear the legal constraint of any opinions.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Isherwood It's a sad commentary on religion that churches fear their ability to denounce people could be constrained by a law. Is their need to demean others so important to their faith?

Agreed... I don't see how not being able to call someone any homo-phobic terms damages the religion or infringes on free speech.... heaven forbid.

You can't shoot off the N-Word without it being a hate crime... you can't question the holocaust without that being related to a hate crime in questioning it alone.... what's the difference here?

Are some just afraid the gays will come and spread like a virus now that the magic words are no longer around to fend them off? :rolleyes:

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Prax I don't see how not being able to call someone any homo-phobic terms damages the religion or infringes on free speech....

Free speech is the ability to speak one's mind without censorship. This law prevents people from doing so. Hence, it infringes on free speech.

Quote by: Prax You can't shoot off the N-Word without it being a hate crime...

You should be able to.

Quote by: Prax you can't question the holocaust without that being related to a hate crime in questioning it alone....

You should be able to.

Quote by: Prax what's the difference here?

None. These laws are all equally unacceptable.

Quote by: Prax Are some just afraid the gays will come and spread like a virus now that the magic words are no longer around to fend them off?

I can only speak for myself, myself being somewhat gay as it happens, and say that this is not about any negative or positive regard for homosexuals. It's about protecting minorities from having the majority's arbitrary morality forced upon them. The government locking people up for criticising or denouncing homosexuality is no different from the old oppressive Chrstian churches locking people up for blasphemy. The subject matter may be have changed over the years, but it all amounts to putting a gun at someone's head simply because you happen not to like what they're saying. Fascism is fascism, no matter how righteous you think your cause is.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel Seven years jail for gay hate preachers - Telegraph The UK is becoming over politicaly correct and this is extremely sad

Yeah, they should stop the preaching of hate in the leading mosques by fanatical Muslim clerics first. Jack Straw has got all his priorities wrong.

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear Yeah, they should stop the preaching of hate in the leading mosques by fanatical Muslim clerics first. Jack Straw has got all his priorities wrong.

You're not going to stop "the preaching of hate" by persecuting mosques or churches. That's a way to radicalize religious groups further.

Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Isherwood It's a sad commentary on religion that churches fear their ability to denounce people could be constrained by a law. Is their need to demean others so important to their faith?

It's not demeaning others. Christianity teaches that homosexual behavior is sin - just as adultery or lying or stealing or murder are sins. It is entirely inappropriate in a society that claims to support freedom to deny that freedom to a group of its citizens solely on the basis of words.

[tinybear]

Quote by: grandpa You're not going to stop "the preaching of hate" by persecuting mosques or churches. That's a way to radicalize religious groups further. Grandpa h.

That's prosecute; not persecute. What's wrong with prosecuting hate-mongers who indoctrinate the young and turning them into terrorists? How can prosecution 'radicalize' these people further? They are already fanatics, remember?

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear That's prosecute; not persecute. What's wrong with prosecuting hate-mongers who indoctrinate the young and turning them into terrorists?

Prosecution would be interpreted as prosecution, which virtually always radicalizes members of a given religion. It will not likely prevent people in mosques (or anywhere else) from "turning into terrorists." In fact, there is ample reason to believe it will increase the risk of terrorism both by and against Muslims.

Grandpa h.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chancellor It's not demeaning others. Christianity teaches that homosexual behavior is sin

If they are born the way they are and can not control who they find sexually attractive, and are then labeled as sinners and evil, then that seems a bit demeaning to me. To fight for the right to call them all the derogetory terms one can think of in the name of freedom of speech goes a bit further.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: grandpa You're not going to stop "the preaching of hate" by persecuting mosques or churches. That's a way to radicalize religious groups further. Grandpa h.

I think this is one of the first times I've ever agreed with you.

Case in point, someone tries to get a nativity scene removed from a government building and suddenly there's a "War on Christmas"!

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Prax To fight for the right to call them all the derogetory terms one can think of in the name of freedom of speech goes a bit further.

Further, but not too far. It's only too far if someone is directly, objectively and demonstrably harmed by it.