The "N" word.

[Wolfgang]

Hello,
I am Wolfgang. I am in middle school and let me just say, there is somthing about the word nigger that is very interesting.
Okay,
Supposedly the word "nigger" is highly offensive to black people. Thats all fine and dandy, untill...

I see two black kids talking to each other
"Yo nigga, spare me a doller...."
"Lend a nigga a hand."
"No nigga get off".

WHAT??!
I thought at first, how very odd.

When i found more people, i saw them saying nigger too, funny enough they were black.

However,
I say nigger (im white) and all of a sudden i am a rascist? <----flawed logic

But, even funnier, white girls can say "Ne-gra" and it doesnt count as rascist at all.

So here is my question,
Do you think the N word (nigger, nigga, nee-gra etc etc) is offesnive or not?

Post your thoughts.
~Wolf~

i know this is a touchy subject, so try to keep it as non offensive as possible

[Suburbanite]

okay, I don't think white girls can say Negra.

My own fascination with this word is who is actually saying it the most these days? White kids, exclusively. And in a weird ironic mimicking black culture MTV kind of way.

You know why you want to say Nigga so bad? Its the same reason White people play Jazz. The brothers are just always in style. Like Paul Mooney says "everyone wants to be a nigga but no one wants to be a nigga."

[The Bacon Guy]

Being offended by a word is ridiculous. If someone says nigger in a racist sense, then it's offensive regardless of the speaker's race. If they say it in a friendly sense, it shouldn't be. Offence should be based on the context and the intent of the word, rather than the word itself.

I sometimes use the word in a humorous sense, for example if telling a joke or speaking in character. There's no malicious intent, and I have no sympathy for people who are offended by it.

[Suburbanite]

What about a woman who was raped, would you say she is ridiculous if she told me she didn't like it when I said "I raped that guy" when I play video games?

[samsara15]

Basically, I agree with Bacon, words are just words, and actions and feelings are what really counts. However, it is also true that words are charged with emotional power. There is undeniably a lot of hypocrisy on all sides about the use of the nigger word.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Wolfgang Hello, I am Wolfgang. I am in middle school and let me just say, there is somthing about the word nigger that is very interesting. Okay, Supposedly the word "nigger" is highly offensive to black people. Thats all fine and dandy, untill... I see two black kids talking to each other "Yo nigga, spare me a doller...." "Lend a nigga a hand." "No nigga get off". WHAT??! I thought at first, how very odd. When i found more people, i saw them saying nigger too, funny enough they were black. However, I say nigger (im white) and all of a sudden i am a rascist? <----flawed logic But, even funnier, white girls can say "Ne-gra" and it doesnt count as rascist at all. So here is my question, Do you think the N word (nigger, nigga, nee-gra etc etc) is offesnive or not? Post your thoughts. ~Wolf~ i know this is a touchy subject, so try to keep it as non offensive as possible

Offensive is a purely subjective concept that rests primarily in those on the receiving end or who are third parties.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Sub What about a woman who was raped, would you say she is ridiculous if she told me she didn't like it when I said "I raped that guy" when I play video games?

Yes. It's just a word.

[Muckraker]

Quote by: samsara15 words are just words, and actions and feelings are what really counts. However, it is also true that words are charged with emotional power.

Words are not just words.

The ability to communicate to humans we have never been in physical or temporal proximity to is why humans exist in the manner we do today. Words hold the power to influence, drive, and create action.

Words are the reason that one human's mistake doesn't need to be repeated by other humans and they are also why every subsequent human doesn't have to invent the wheel before they can invent the wheelbarrow.

Words are the reason that humans can come together and perform great feats of ingenuity, like sending a peopled space craft to orbit our planet. Words are also the reason that humans can band their resources to commit the most ferocious atrocities, like the Holocaust or the Heaven's Gate cult suicides.

How does a human get to the point where they are stacking up emaciated corpses of their neighbors, performing self castration, or flying a hijacked plane into a building? It all starts with words and the skillful presentation of those words.

The careful use of rhetorical strategy, word choice, and charismatic presentation defines the difference between driving masses of thousands into a frenzy of desired action and being unable to communicate to your spouse that soccer practice for little Timmy is cancelled.

Wherever you are, look around. There are words everywhere. Can you really argue that they are just collections of characters that have no effect on actions or feelings? Or that the word itself is some sort of container for emotion, like Tupperware? Words are power. Sticks and stones do break bones but words are what drive the masses to do the breaking.

That being said, each of us is free to communicate in whatever manner we desire. The use of the word nigger is not illegal. It is simply ill advised and people opting to use it should be prepared to accept the consequences because, as I stated before, words drive action.

Effective speakers and communicators understand the power of words and they also understand that even misunderstandings of words have vast power. Communicators have to frequently account for the fact that many humans in their target audience do not even understand the meanings of the words they themselves commonly use in everyday speech.

Here is an instance from a few years back about an aide to a Washington DC mayor who used the term "niggardly," which means miserly and has no relation to the word nigger. He resigned because the people he was speaking with did not know the word and believed it to be a racial slur. The topic they were discussing at the time was political funding.

Williams Aide Resigns in Language Dispute

Another great example of how we have actually modified our language to account for misunderstanding is found in the term "flammable." This is a word that is only in the dictionary because there was so much misuse and misunderstanding about the word "inflammable." Many people believe that inflammable means that the substance will not start on fire. The error makes sense since the prefix "in" typically negates the body of the word. The word inflammable, however, is based off of the root "inflame," which means to start on fire. And the suffix of "able" means just that. So inflammable is a substance that is able to be set on fire. In any event, 200 years after the word "inflammable" was coined, we subsequently added the term "flammable" to the dictionary because it was so widely misused that it actually created itself as a word. Inflammable and flammable mean the exact same thing.

In summation, words are powerful and many people that actively use a word may not even know what it means. I used the word "gypped" for years as a way to communicate that I had been ripped off. I stopped using it when I found out that its meaning is derived from being ripped off by Gypsies.

I will end with an anecdote. My first and only usage of the word "nigger" was at the age of nine. I heard it somewhere and knew it sounded bad but I didn't know what it meant. My younger sister was playing with my Pogo Ball in the garage and I called her a nigger. I remember the word sticking in my mouth a bit because it was the first time I had ever said it. I also remember the look on my mom's face after I realized she was standing in the doorway of the garage. She slapped me across the cheek and told me using that word was slapping black people everywhere in the face. I have never found an applicable use for the word nigger since then and the only reason I found a use that one time was because I didn't even know what the word meant.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Yes. It's just a word.

This is dumb. What isn't just a word? What does it mean, "just" a word? That words can be minuscule and insignificant? I mean, you can go your whole life thinking that... but I'm sorry to say people will be exceeding you by leaps and bounds in all of your endeavors if you can't understand the limitless potential of a word.
By the way, you're dumb as all hell and your posts have all been pathetic.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Sub That words can be minuscule and insignificant?

Words are miniscule and insignificant. It's the idea you're conveying with these words which is important.

Quote by: Sub By the way, you're dumb as all hell and your posts have all been pathetic.

Presumably you're making a point here about words being offensive, but if you think about it, it confirms what I'm saying.

Without context, these words would be considered malicious and therefore offensive. However, in the context of this thread, it's clear that the words were said in order to make a point; and were therefore not offensive. Same words, but different intent and therefore different effect.

[triad]

The only thing offensive about nigger is the history behind how it was used.

You can't connect the past use of a word to the word when it is used in a different tone seperate from the past... confused yet?

I can call my dog a nigger if I want - as a joke - and no one should take offense. It is almost a parody of the offense to use the word in a non-racist manor. Lighten up people, and take a joke.

The Bacon Guy owns this thread and has made his point very clear and it is the more strong standpoint.

[Suburbanite]

Well it might have had a better effect if you didn't see that I was making a point!
You're right about what you say, everything is context.
Triad, i will say that the history of the word nigger is very crucial to the "joke" about your dog being black. And, i dont know if you know, but racist slurs are used commonly in hick towns (the south) as names for pets. I think if you called your dog a nigger in front of someone who is sensitive to race then they have every right to take offense, as surely you find humor in their plight, which aggravates everyone. Dumb stoner.

[triad]

Quote by: Suburbanite Well it might have had a better effect if you didn't see that I was making a point! You're right about what you say, everything is context. Triad, i will say that the history of the word nigger is very crucial to the "joke" about your dog being black. And, i dont know if you know, but racist slurs are used commonly in hick towns (the south) as names for pets. I think if you called your dog a nigger in front of someone who is sensitive to race then they have every right to take offense, as surely you find humor in their plight, which aggravates everyone. Dumb stoner.

Haha, you tried it AGAIN. "Dumb stoner", trying to make your point even further... I hope, otherwise you're being an ass.

Anyways, what if my dog was a white lab? Then what? (this is what I was aiming for originally, calling a black dog a nigger is a different context then I intended)

[Muckraker]

Quote by: triad The only thing offensive about nigger is the history behind how it was used.

Are you claiming that nobody currently uses the word in an intentionally offensive manner?

You can't connect the past use of a word to the word when it is used in a different tone seperate from the past... confused yet?

Yes you can. That is the fundamental structure of language as we know it and it is one of the main methods by which knowledge and experience is handed down to subsequent generations of our species.

If I had eaten and enjoyed a fig ten years ago and someone asked if I would like a fig with dinner shouldn't I expect a similar product even though ten years has passed since the last time I matched the word with the experience? Using your logic, the server may end up bringing me an apple, or a ball-peen hammer.

I can call my dog a nigger if I want - as a joke - and no one should take offense. It is almost a parody of the offense to use the word in a non-racist manor. Lighten up people, and take a joke.

Can you please explain the joke to me? Maybe I'm dense but I don't see why anyone would find that funny. Does your dog have black fur?

Would one still be able to make this joke if they were a racist or are racists not allowed to participate in your humor since there is a chance they may mean it?

Since it's just a joke, how would you feel about calling your dog out of the house in front of your parents? How about a group of strangers? How about a group of black strangers? How about a seventy year old black man that experienced the offensive use of the term first hand? You know, in ancient history.

It's just a word after all. It's just a joke, right? Why should anyone care?

The Bacon Guy owns this thread and has made his point very clear and it is the more strong standpoint.

The Bacon Guy has owned nothing. He does not support his points with any proof or examples. Here is a summary of his points:

1. He has used the word nigger in its humorous sense.
2. Being offended by a word is ridiculous
3. The word raped is also just a word and a woman who was raped should not be offended by someone making light of the term by saying they raped a friend in a video game.
4. Words are miniscule and insignificant.
5. And here is the Cool Whip on the apple pie of contradiction, which I shall quote directly:

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Without context, these words would be considered malicious and therefore offensive. However, in the context of this thread, it's clear that the words were said in order to make a point; and were therefore not offensive. Same words, but different intent and therefore different effect.

I could go on; delving into rhetorical strategy, semantics, connotation, denotation, and other areas of relevance - heck, we could even discuss the overuse of the negative, qualifying word "just" in this day and age - but I am only expecting a one-liner retort stating that "words are, like, just dumb."

Or maybe I should simply, "lighten up," because, after all, not much is funnier than naming my dog Nigger.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Suburbanite By the way, you're dumb as all hell and your posts have all been pathetic.

Wow, tell us how you really feel. It's crap like this that ruins forums. It says alot about you when you can't discuss a sensitive subject without outright insulting people.


Personally, I use the word "nigger" all the time. And not always directed at scummy blacks. White people can be niggers in my purview. And Mexicans. And ...........well anyone that robs a gas station and kills the clerk for $35. Or anyone that has 5 kids and no legitimate source of income.

That being said I would never use it in front of a black person. Too much cultural history behind that word. Its too sensitive to fire that off in front of blacks, and I respect that.

[triad]

I am disconnecting from the thread due to misinterpretation some users have experienced. I feel explaining myself further would just worsen the topic at hand.

[Muckraker]

Quote by: ruksak Wow, tell us how you really feel. It's crap like this that ruins forums. It says alot about you when you can't discuss a sensitive subject without outright insulting people. Personally, I use the word "nigger" all the time. And not always directed at scummy blacks. White people can be niggers in my purview. And Mexicans. And ...........well anyone that robs a gas station and kills the clerk for $35. Or anyone that has 5 kids and no legitimate source of income. That being said I would never use it in front of a black person. Too much cultural history behind that word. Its too sensitive to fire that off in front of blacks, and I respect that.

Wow Ruksak. Way to ratchet yourself down a few clicks.

The word nigger does have a definition you know.

It's nothing that a few decades of incorrect usage can't rectify, like with the word "flammable," but maybe you should start working up your own dictionary so you can make sure the jobless person with 5 kids portion of the definition is recorded for future generations to refer to.

[Muckraker]

Quote by: triad I am disconnecting from the thread due to misinterpretation some users have experienced. I feel explaining myself further would just worsen the topic at hand.

It's JUST a debate, my friend - a mere smattering of meaningless words. I'm surprised we are able to make any sense of them at all considering we aren't on the phone with each other explaining our intended meaning for each word.

If anyone else wants to continue the debate, but doesn't want to try picking up where Triad left off, I will gladly switch teams and attempt to duke it out from the devil's advocate point of view.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Muck He does not support his points with any proof or examples.

I provided no examples because I assumed that people would be able to understand the concept. It's pretty simple stuff. And if that's not enough, I already used one of Sub's posts to illustrate my point.

Quote by: Muck 1. He has used the word nigger in its humorous sense. 2. Being offended by a word is ridiculous 3. The word raped is also just a word and a woman who was raped should not be offended by someone making light of the term by saying they raped a friend in a video game. 4. Words are miniscule and insignificant. 5. And here is the Cool Whip on the apple pie of contradiction, which I shall quote directly: Quote by: The Bacon Guy Without context, these words would be considered malicious and therefore offensive. However, in the context of this thread, it's clear that the words were said in order to make a point; and were therefore not offensive. Same words, but different intent and therefore different effect.

Actually, my argument can be summarised as follows:

1. Words mean different things in different contexts.
2. A word can be malicious in one context and benign in another.
3. One context need not relate to the other context.
4. Hence, there is no reason to associate a benign use of a word with a malicious use.
5. Hence, there is no reason to be offended.

Quote by: Muck And here is the Cool Whip on the apple pie of contradiction

Although a lovely metaphor, I'd ask you to explain it. Where is the contradiction in any of what I've posted?

[ruksak]

Quote by: Muckraker Wow Ruksak. Way to ratchet yourself down a few clicks. It's nothing that a few decades of incorrect usage can't rectify, like with the word "flammable," but maybe you should start working up your own dictionary so you can make sure the jobless person with 5 kids portion of the definition is recorded for future generations to refer to.

So how is my usage any more f*cked up than two black friends greeting each other with a hearty "Wuzzzup nigga"?

Quote by: Muckraker The word nigger does have a definition you know.

1: usually offensive; a black person
2:usually offensive; a member of any dark-skinned race
3: a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons <it's time for somebody to lead all of America's niggers…all the people who feel left out of the political process

Your point?