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**Pooeypants** · Jun 29, 2004, 06:16 am

Should these prisoners be allowed legal proceedings?

Extract from article;

The Bush administration's detention policies have been perhaps the most enduringly controversial aspect of its global war on terrorism.

Now, these Supreme Court rulings are perhaps the most significant legal setback for the administration in the conflict.

Officially, the administration is taking its time to assess the rulings. But they certainly represent a political blow for the administration.

What they mean for the actual fate of the detainees isn't clear. That will depend on how the courts proceed from here.

The Supreme Court's decisions are not a comment on the guilt or innocence of the detainees.

But they're certainly going to open the floodgates for legal appeals. And for that reason their overall legal and political impact may also still have to be judged.

The Supreme Court has basically ruled that suspected terrorists or "enemy combatants", whether American or foreign, should at least have the right to a hearing in a US court, even if they're held at the detention centre at Guantanamo Bay.

The administration had contended is not sovereign US soil, and therefore not within the jurisdiction of US courts.

So what do you think folks, should these people be allowed legal representation or continue being in limbo?

source

Samildanach · Jun 29, 2004, 07:59 am

IMO of course they should have the right to legal representation. If they have no right to legal representation henceforth referred to as LR then what hope do they ever have of having their side of the story told. No matter what the govt thinks they have done they should be allowed to tell their side of the story with LR.

**Pooeypants** · Jun 29, 2004, 06:34 pm

It must be 2 years now that the prisoners have been held without charge for. It's taken the British gov't this long as well to ask the US gov't for the Brit detainees.

giuliano · Jun 29, 2004, 07:55 pm

i don't understand what's wrong with the US legal system that they need to be denied justice in the conventional manner?

if they are indeed guilty, why can't the US legal system distribute justice?

the restrictions imposed on the defence counsel and case by a military tribunal seems to be aimed at encouraging a guilty verdict where there is not sufficient evidence to support such a verdict in a civilian court.

that's called 'injustice' where i come from

Zeebadee · Jun 29, 2004, 08:55 pm

This administration has become frightening with the direction that it's taking us. Bush has investigated the legalities of using torture, of abrogating the Geneva Convention, has assumed extra-Constitutional powers in the arrest and confinement without charges of U.S. citizens, has used a foundation of lies and inuendo to justify the invasion of a sovereign nation, and, I suspect, has commissioned studies on the effects of suspending national elections later this year based on a "temporary state of emergency" due to the "war on terror". The stakes have now become so high that he may feel that it's worth the gamble that the majority of Americans will choose to cede the last vestiges of freedom for his promises of security. This latest Supreme Court ruling will be a critical juncture for our country. The big question is, will the executive branch submit to this ruling, or will Bush simply ignore it and elect to see what the results are? We may yet be afforded the unique opportunity to experience first hand what the so-called Iraqi "terrorists" are living with: defying an imposed government with whatever means we have available.

bishop · Jun 29, 2004, 09:06 pm

yeah... it's a setback.. too bad.

it's about time that they began to start obeying the law, rather than breaking/twisting the law.

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 29, 2004, 09:50 pm

Its totally evil. How DARE they! Its all about Christian Fatalists prejudging anyone who thinks or believes different from them.How could anyone detain someone without letting them contact family. Not bringing any charges and holding indefinately without representation or seeing a judge. Our leaders are terrorists! Fascists have shredded our Constitution and Bill of Rights!

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 01:18 am

Fuck them. These prisoners are, for the most part, not citizens of this fine country. Most, if not all, were either part of an attack against us or fought against us durring a war and deserve nothing less then to rot in their prisons for the rest of their crappy lives.
Now is that what's going to happen? Probably not, but that's my opinion.

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 30, 2004, 01:46 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dieval,
Fuck them. These prisoners are, for the most part, not citizens of this fine country. Most, if not all, were either part of an attack against us or fought against us durring a war and deserve nothing less then to rot in their prisons for the rest of their crappy lives.
Now is that what's going to happen? Probably not, but that's my opinion.

No, F*ck BushCorp, they have a lotta nerve with their Un American Patriot Act. Due Process is what separates us from Fascism and Despotism. Bush is a junior dictator with his arrogance and ignorance of what exactly makes America great.

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 02:24 am

Quote:

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,
No, F*ck BushCorp

ROFL, starting off with a left wing propaganda slogan is always a good way to get people to take you seriously..

The rest of your response tries to link a few different topics together...I think you have a lot of pent up anger..rofl..

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 30, 2004, 02:26 am

Pot calling kettle black.....You use ROFL to abbreviate

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 02:30 am

Quote:

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,
Pot calling kettle black.....You use ROFL to abbreviate

Where'd you learn how to spell? ROFL <> PCKB

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 30, 2004, 02:37 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dieval,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dieval,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-gr8fuldaniel,
No, F*ck BushCorp

ROFL, starting off with a left wing propaganda slogan is always a good way to get people to take you seriously..
The rest of your response tries to link a few different topics together...I think you have a lot of pent up anger..rofl..[/b][/quote]
Actually its all connected the Patriot Act gives our war lord the power to arrest and hold without charges,anyone,indefinately. Due process gives everyone certain rights, an Attorney, a speedy trial, the right to call your family and let them know where you are. You also have a right to be treated humanely. Iknow I know...Mass Murderers like Bush dont need no stinking rules

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 02:41 am

Quote:

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,

Actually its all connected the Patriot Act gives our war lord the power to arrest and hold without charges,anyone,indefinately. Due process gives everyone certain rights, an Attorney, a speedy trial, the right to call your family and let them know where you are. You also have a right to be treated humanely. Iknow I know...Mass Murderers like Bush dont need no stinking rules

See, the problem with your whole line of reasoning is that, for the most part, we're not holding citizens who are subject to our laws or that of the PATRIOT act.
Personally, I dont' have a problem with the PATRIOT act either...if they think you're that much of a threat then you probably deserve to be held indefinatly. I know, I know, you're probably worried about the innocent people that MIGHT be affected by this..sorry, but I'd rather be safe then sorry.. Of course, everyones entitled to their own opinions...

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 30, 2004, 02:41 am

Try to stay on topic

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 02:43 am

ROFL.... oh wait, is that PCKB?

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 30, 2004, 02:44 am

If you feel that way, I have nothing to discuss with you. You are willing to give up your rights for the promise of security...you deserve neither

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 02:46 am

And you deserve anything the terrorists do...

gr8fuldaniel · Jun 30, 2004, 02:49 am

that posted before i saw your last post
. Idont feel like explaining my spelling. But FYI I was saying that you were criticizing me for using BushCorp (an abbreviation) while in the same post you used ROFL....NOW. I feel like I am wasting my time with you ,,,Good night

Dieval · Jun 30, 2004, 02:51 am

Quote:

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,
that posted before i saw your last post
. Idont feel like explaining my spelling. But FYI I was saying that you were criticizing me for using BushCorp (an abbreviation) while in the same post you used ROFL....NOW. I feel like I am wasting my time with you ,,,Good night

My mistake..I took that PCKB remark the wrong way...

Night

View Poll Results: Should these prisoners be allowed legal proceedings?
Yes	35	92.11%
No	3	7.89%
Don't know	0	0%
Voters: 38. You may not vote

Jun 29, 2004, 06:16 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,609	Should these prisoners be allowed legal proceedings? Extract from article; The Bush administration's detention policies have been perhaps the most enduringly controversial aspect of its global war on terrorism. Now, these Supreme Court rulings are perhaps the most significant legal setback for the administration in the conflict. Officially, the administration is taking its time to assess the rulings. But they certainly represent a political blow for the administration. What they mean for the actual fate of the detainees isn't clear. That will depend on how the courts proceed from here. The Supreme Court's decisions are not a comment on the guilt or innocence of the detainees. But they're certainly going to open the floodgates for legal appeals. And for that reason their overall legal and political impact may also still have to be judged. The Supreme Court has basically ruled that suspected terrorists or "enemy combatants", whether American or foreign, should at least have the right to a hearing in a US court, even if they're held at the detention centre at Guantanamo Bay. The administration had contended is not sovereign US soil, and therefore not within the jurisdiction of US courts. So what do you think folks, should these people be allowed legal representation or continue being in limbo? source War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Jun 29, 2004, 07:59 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	IMO of course they should have the right to legal representation. If they have no right to legal representation henceforth referred to as LR then what hope do they ever have of having their side of the story told. No matter what the govt thinks they have done they should be allowed to tell their side of the story with LR. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jun 29, 2004, 06:34 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,609	It must be 2 years now that the prisoners have been held without charge for. It's taken the British gov't this long as well to ask the US gov't for the Brit detainees. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Jun 29, 2004, 07:55 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
giuliano Tres COOL Location: melbourne australia Posts: 819	i don't understand what's wrong with the US legal system that they need to be denied justice in the conventional manner? if they are indeed guilty, why can't the US legal system distribute justice? the restrictions imposed on the defence counsel and case by a military tribunal seems to be aimed at encouraging a guilty verdict where there is not sufficient evidence to support such a verdict in a civilian court. that's called 'injustice' where i come from sheik's progressive islam online* *with editorials by bishop

Jun 29, 2004, 08:55 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,799	This administration has become frightening with the direction that it's taking us. Bush has investigated the legalities of using torture, of abrogating the Geneva Convention, has assumed extra-Constitutional powers in the arrest and confinement without charges of U.S. citizens, has used a foundation of lies and inuendo to justify the invasion of a sovereign nation, and, I suspect, has commissioned studies on the effects of suspending national elections later this year based on a "temporary state of emergency" due to the "war on terror". The stakes have now become so high that he may feel that it's worth the gamble that the majority of Americans will choose to cede the last vestiges of freedom for his promises of security. This latest Supreme Court ruling will be a critical juncture for our country. The big question is, will the executive branch submit to this ruling, or will Bush simply ignore it and elect to see what the results are? We may yet be afforded the unique opportunity to experience first hand what the so-called Iraqi "terrorists" are living with: defying an imposed government with whatever means we have available. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jun 29, 2004, 09:06 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	yeah... it's a setback.. too bad. it's about time that they began to start obeying the law, rather than breaking/twisting the law. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jun 29, 2004, 09:50 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	Its totally evil. How DARE they! Its all about Christian Fatalists prejudging anyone who thinks or believes different from them.How could anyone detain someone without letting them contact family. Not bringing any charges and holding indefinately without representation or seeing a judge. Our leaders are terrorists! Fascists have shredded our Constitution and Bill of Rights! ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jun 30, 2004, 01:18 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Dieval Right of Center Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,766	Fuck them. These prisoners are, for the most part, not citizens of this fine country. Most, if not all, were either part of an attack against us or fought against us durring a war and deserve nothing less then to rot in their prisons for the rest of their crappy lives. Now is that what's going to happen? Probably not, but that's my opinion. "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Jun 30, 2004, 02:26 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	Pot calling kettle black.....You use ROFL to abbreviate ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jun 30, 2004, 02:41 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	Try to stay on topic ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jun 30, 2004, 02:43 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Dieval Right of Center Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,766	ROFL.... oh wait, is that PCKB? "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Jun 30, 2004, 02:44 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	If you feel that way, I have nothing to discuss with you. You are willing to give up your rights for the promise of security...you deserve neither ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jun 30, 2004, 02:46 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Dieval Right of Center Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,766	And you deserve anything the terrorists do... "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Jun 30, 2004, 02:49 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	that posted before i saw your last post . Idont feel like explaining my spelling. But FYI I was saying that you were criticizing me for using BushCorp (an abbreviation) while in the same post you used ROFL....NOW. I feel like I am wasting my time with you ,,,Good night ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~