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Thread: U.S. troops use new film to scout enemy:

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    Mass'Debater Praxius's Avatar
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    U.S. troops use new film to scout enemy:



    U.S. troops use new film to scout enemy - CNN.com

    NEW YORK (CNN) -- A new documentary that focuses on the motivations of Iraqi insurgents opens later this week in the United States, but reviews are already coming in from a surprising source: U.S. troops serving in Iraq.

    At a recent screening in Baghdad's Al Faw Palace, American soldiers listened to their enemies talking about why they want them dead.

    "It tells us a lot about the culture and how they pretty much feel about us. Well, not the entire Iraqi culture, just the insurgents, and how pretty much their faith is pretty strong," Staff Sgt. Jason Privitera said.

    The documentary, "Meeting Resistance," was shot just after the fall of Baghdad in 2003. The filmmakers, Molly Bingham and Steve Connors, spent months following a handful of Iraqi insurgents. They say it's a fractured group united by both fierce nationalism and by a religious obligation to expel a non-Muslim occupying force.

    "If someone comes and occupies another man's home and takes away his food, money and property, how could he not defend himself?," one Iraqi insurgent says in the film. "A person who doesn't fight for himself or his country shouldn't be called a human being."

    Before the war he was a teacher. Now, he said, his job is killing American troops.

    The men and women in the film are obscured to protect their identities and go by simple names -- the Wife, the Teacher, the Warrior -- ordinary Iraqis who say they were peaceful people before the U.S. occupation of Iraq, and who now say they are simply defending their homeland.

    "It's about not wanting to be occupied. And I think people all over the world, all throughout history have been occupied and resisting occupation is not an abnormal response to that," Bingham said.

    The insurgent known in the film as The Warrior said that while he was tortured during Saddam Hussein's rule, he is now fighting American troops. "When they occupied Iraq, they subjugated me, subjugated my sister, subjugated my mother, subjugated my brother, my homeland."

    The Wife, an insurgent who smuggles weapons under her robes, said she does it because her country is more precious than even her children or her soul.

    All of the insurgents in the documentary talk of the humiliation of occupation. Connors said "honor" was a word he heard frequently from the fighters. They also talk about the concept of a jihad that requires them to fight a foreign invader who is not Muslim.

    "Meeting Resistance" opens Friday in New York and Washington and nationwide later in November. But the film has already been screened by the toughest of critics -- U.S. troops.

    The screening was arranged by the military's Red Team -- a special unit tasked with learning about the insurgency.

    "There's quite a bit of value in how it [the insurgency] grew. We have to infer what we can from it, but it's useful to try and get some perspective," said Colonel Jeff Ragland, the Red Team leader who initiated the screening.

    The filmmakers say it's important for the troops and the American public to think about why the enemy is fighting. And to think about how they would answer this question, posed by an imam in the film:

    "Suppose Iraq invaded America. An Iraqi soldier was on a tank passing through an American street, waving his gun at people, threatening them, raiding and trashing houses. Would you accept that?"

    Maj. Irene Huggins said that while the film helped her understand why the insurgents are fighting back, it didn't change her feelings about her mission.

    "People make choices; it's hard as a soldier for me to sympathize with what they're doing."
    The funny thing is that these forces occupying Iraq as we speak who just watched this documentary clearly admited they really don't understand the hatred and this sheds some light on the subject for the.......

    Like hell! I'm not even over there fighting and I've been saying this for how many damn years now? Sure.... it takes a movie for people to pay attention *smacks head*

    And yet one soldier admitted "People make choices; it's hard as a soldier for me to sympathize with what they're doing." Yet.... isn't that the job of a country's military? To defend your country from invaders and occupiers?

    Must have been sniffing the oil fumes for too long to remember wtf they're there for.

    These insurgents.... no.... "Patriots" know what it means to defend their country and their way of life..... and I applaude their actions. I honestly can't wait to see this documentary myself.

    And if any other country was invaded and occupied as they have been, those native to the country would do the exact same thing with the exact same devotion, regardless if religion was behind it or not. One insurgent quoted above said it perfectly:

    "If someone comes and occupies another man's home and takes away his food, money and property, how could he not defend himself?," one Iraqi insurgent says in the film. "A person who doesn't fight for himself or his country shouldn't be called a human being."
    Iraq never wanted Bush's regiem to "Liberate" them from Saddam, they never asked, and actually in doing so has greatly offended them and felling humiliation, esspecially when you're Mercs use them as target practice, marines rape children, plant weapons on the innocent, stealing their resources..... I honestly can't find one damn thing they should thank these occupiers for.


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    Hucking Fuskies HelioPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Praxius View Post
    Iraq never wanted Bush's regiem to "Liberate" them from Saddam, they never asked, and actually in doing so has greatly offended them and felling humiliation, esspecially when you're Mercs use them as target practice, marines rape children, plant weapons on the innocent, stealing their resources..... I honestly can't find one damn thing they should thank these occupiers for.
    Mercs using Iraq's for target practice? Plant weapons on the innocent? you make it sound like every US soldier over there is guilty.

    As for resources well duh

    Why else did we invade Iraq. Kill two birds with one stone, get oil, and get rid of that rude little dicator.

    What do you say to an atheist who sneezes?
    Yourdeadthatsit!


    - Dane Cook

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    automatic triad's Avatar
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    Wow.. its been, 6 years? No one stopped and thought, "Hey - maybe we should back-off and let other countries deal with their own shit."

    Nope. Americans were too busy being programmed by the "war on terror" propoganda and this is the result.


    Now it is all stripped down to humanity. Iraqi insurgents are just showing their human instinct is to fight off american troops - not some special evil driving force is making them kill any american they see.


    All I can say is - DUH. If there is an individual out there that didn't realize the Iraqi insurgents were just acting like anyone else would act in that situation, pull your head out of your ass....:rolleyes:


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    automatic triad's Avatar
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    HelioPrime said:

    ... and get rid of that rude little dicator.

    You guys didn't get rid of George Bush yet, what are you talking about??


  5. #5
    The Cake is a lie... Chaossaber314's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Praxius
    These insurgents.... no.... "Patriots" know what it means to defend their country and their way of life..... and I applaude their actions.
    Their "way of life" was living under a ruthless Sunni killer and his thugs. It's not like the US "liberated" Quebec of some other nonsense where the citizenry had any type of liberty beforehand.

    The Iraq War was a mistake but the insurgents are not Patriots. They are opportunistic killers trying to stake a claim in the power and wealth that whoever ends up in control of this country will have. What have they done for Iraqi infrastructure except destroy it further with IED's? At least Hamas helped build buildings and feed their people when they weren't killing people. Can you say the same about this insurgency?

    They don't want liberty. They don't want peace. They want power and recognition.

    What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

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    Mass'Debater Praxius's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Chaossaber314 View Post
    Their "way of life" was living under a ruthless Sunni killer and his thugs. It's not like the US "liberated" Quebec of some other nonsense where the citizenry had any type of liberty beforehand.
    That's your view, not theirs, and their's is what matters. It doesn't matter if you thought he was ruthless and had plenty of thugs, I've got my own views of another ruthless thug still in power, but I'm not about to come try and liberate you guys from him.... it's your country, and you guys probably wouldn't appreciate the help anyways.

    Do you see the connection yet? Do you see the hypocracy here yet? No of course not, nobody down there seems to have noticed it yet, why would anybody figure it out now? :rolleyes:

    The Iraq War was a mistake but the insurgents are not Patriots.
    More patriotic then most in other countries I have seen in a long time. Willing to sacrafice themselves, their families, their loved ones all for the sake of the removal of a forign force from their lands they call home, and to have a place they want their children to grow up in..... their lives are not our lives, and thinking they want the same things as us is just plain ignorant. And saying it was for their own good and you know better what they want is just as bad.

    If Iraq invaded your country, won and took out Bush and your government, then forced an islamic government on you guys and to live by their rules, you or someone with enough balls for their country would be doing the exact same thing to destabalize their hold on your country.

    When it happens and another country or countries comes crashing down on you, I'm sure to remember to call you guys terrorists and insurgents, instead of patriots and freedom fighters.

    They are opportunistic killers trying to stake a claim in the power and wealth that whoever ends up in control of this country will have. What have they done for Iraqi infrastructure except destroy it further with IED's? At least Hamas helped build buildings and feed their people when they weren't killing people. Can you say the same about this insurgency?
    Considdering your country destroyed most of all that during the invasion and they have yet to see any practical redevelopment, I think blaming your actions on them is hardly working as a defense.

    And considdering the occupiers who are trying to have the power in their country, it should be expected that they would want control, they want their damn country back to the way it was before you guys mucked it all up.

    They don't want liberty. They don't want peace. They want power and recognition.
    No, they want your asses out of their country and will distabalize the country for as long as it takes until you leave. You're right though.... they don't want liberty... the only liberty they want is from you guys being in their country, and until you leave, they will never want peace.... it's so simple it boggles the mind.

    You seem to be trying to tell me what they want, when you clearly don't have a clue what they want or why they are fighting you guys in the first place. Saddam attempted to tell the world there were no WOMD and it was all fear mongering by Bush and he tried to tell the world that he did not want war, yet Bush attacked.... so now his people are doing the fighting for him.... you guys lit the fire and are continually fueling it the longer you stay.


  7. #7
    The Cake is a lie... Chaossaber314's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Praxius
    That's your view, not theirs, and their's is what matters. It doesn't matter if you thought he was ruthless and had plenty of thugs,
    And what makes you more qualified than me to discuss their opinions? Study abroad in Baghdad or something?

    It's common sense. If someone is persecuting you, killing your family members and putting them in mass graves, and allows his son's to operate goddamn rape rooms, this would tend to dictate a NEGATIVE connotation. Iraq is a hellhole now and it was also a hellhole before. Get a hold of your anti-American bias for five seconds and realize that just because America didn't go in and annihilate the peace loving Iraqi people and ruin the fantastic state of domestic affairs in the country, this does not mean in any way shape or form that they were still right to do it. They don't have to have attacked a children's playground where little kids are running around and laughing and playing, in order to be in the wrong.

    Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator. It isn't my opinion. It isn't up for debate. It just doesn't give the US the right to invade the country.

    I've got my own views of another ruthless thug still in power, but I'm not about to come try and liberate you guys from him.... it's your country, and you guys probably wouldn't appreciate the help anyways.
    Completely irrelevant. I already said the invasion was wrong. I'm just not going to give a fucking medal to people who are killing, but at least they're killing a group of people that Praxius hates so that's ok.

    Do you see the connection yet? Do you see the hypocracy here yet? No of course not, nobody down there seems to have noticed it yet, why would anybody figure it out now?
    You're going to have to elaborate because I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

    More patriotic then most in other countries I have seen in a long time. Willing to sacrafice themselves, their families, their loved ones all for the sake of the removal of a forign force from their lands they call home
    How does sacrificing their families and loved ones help remove a foreign force again? You lost me. Silly me, I was under the impression they were not only fighting the US but also each other. Bless these wonderful patriotic individuals.

    and to have a place they want their children to grow up in.....
    You mean after they sacrificed their families and children for this supposed freedom from us evil Americans? Contradictory much?

    If Iraq invaded your country, won and took out Bush and your government, then forced an islamic government on you guys and to live by their rules, you or someone with enough balls for their country would be doing the exact same thing to destabalize their hold on your country.
    If we split up along religious dividing lines, killed each other, and massacred civilians ourselves, all the while attacking the occupying army we'd be just as reprehensible. And this is of course assuming that your comment isn't completely irrelevant as no religion was imposed on the Iraqi people. Democracy isn't a religion.

    Considdering your country destroyed most of all that during the invasion and they have yet to see any practical redevelopment, I think blaming your actions on them is hardly working as a defense.
    So when they get working power or water and then an IED blows it up, it's our fault too? You can only do so much work to rebuild an infrastructure if people keep blowing up your work. Use some damn common sense.

    And considdering the occupiers who are trying to have the power in their country, it should be expected that they would want control, they want their damn country back to the way it was before you guys mucked it all up.
    Yeah, Iraq was great before we came there. Reality ftw.

    No, they want your asses out of their country and will distabalize the country for as long as it takes until you leave. You're right though.... they don't want liberty... the only liberty they want is from you guys being in their country, and until you leave, they will never want peace.... it's so simple it boggles the mind.
    Right, so as soon as the US leaves the sectarian violence will also stop. Do you read your posts before you post them?

    You seem to be trying to tell me what they want, when you clearly don't have a clue what they want or why they are fighting you guys in the first place.
    Oh wait... Irony headache.

    Ok...

    Sorry, you were just accusing me of telling you what the Iraqi's want by telling me what the Iraqi's want.

    Saddam attempted to tell the world there were no WOMD and it was all fear mongering by Bush and he tried to tell the world that he did not want war, yet Bush attacked....
    Which has nothing to do with the patriotism of these people you're championing.

    so now his people are doing the fighting for him....
    Oh right, the only people fighting in Iraq are Baathists. Well you certainly have this more figured out than me.

    you guys lit the fire and are continually fueling it the longer you stay.
    No, we put out one fire and started another one which turned out worse. Again, completely irrelevant to the patriotism claim you made.

    Try and stay on topic next time and leave your bias at the door.

    I already said I thought the Iraq War was wrong. Any further point claiming otherwise will be responded to with this comment. I just don't have any delusions about what the country was like before like you clearly do.

    What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

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    Mass'Debater Praxius's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Chaossaber314 View Post
    And what makes you more qualified than me to discuss their opinions? Study abroad in Baghdad or something?
    Learn how to read the meaning in what other's say, how about doing that first?

    I never said I was better or more qualified then you.... my opinion is irrelevent in this matter just as much as yours.

    They are telling you why they are pissed, I am agreeing with what they are saying, and here you are trying to tell us what they think.... that's the foolish thing I was pointing at.

    In other words, it doesn't matter what you thought of Saddam or how they lived... if they wern't asking for your help, then they apparently didn't want it.

    It's common sense. If someone is persecuting you, killing your family members and putting them in mass graves, and allows his son's to operate goddamn rape rooms, this would tend to dictate a NEGATIVE connotation. Iraq is a hellhole now and it was also a hellhole before. Get a hold of your anti-American bias for five seconds and realize that just because America didn't go in and annihilate the peace loving Iraqi people and ruin the fantastic state of domestic affairs in the country, this does not mean in any way shape or form that they were still right to do it. They don't have to have attacked a children's playground where little kids are running around and laughing and playing, in order to be in the wrong.
    One person's villian is another's hero.. and I believe if you ask any of them today, they would rather deal with the life they had before you guys screwed it all up.... it maybe anti-American, it might not be.... I don't care one way or another.... I judge on actions, and so far the actions of the US over there have been moronic. Don't like the negativity? Well too late for that now.

    Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator. It isn't my opinion. It isn't up for debate. It just doesn't give the US the right to invade the country.
    Neither are correct, because you are judging Saddam by a Western Mentality, from a Western Culture.

    They have agreed that things were bad under Saddam's rule in some aspects, but they would rather go back to those days, rather then living day to day wondering if they're going to be randomly blown up, or shot by forign occupiers because they're trying to drive to work.

    Completely irrelevant. I already said the invasion was wrong. I'm just not going to give a fucking medal to people who are killing, but at least they're killing a group of people that Praxius hates so that's ok.
    It's not irrelevent in the slightest, it's a given that if you guys actually got off your couch potato arses to fight for your country in the same situation, you would be reacting in the same way as they are.

    And I'll freely share my hatred towards any country that acts like yours and remains acting like this when the facts and evidence proves your actions as being in the wrong. I have hatred towards a country that boast being so damn great, but can't figure out how to end a war in which it started. For a country and it's people for being so damn blind and ignorant, I've got plenty I wish I could say in regards to what I wish to happen to your country and your people.... but that's a different topic.

    You're going to have to elaborate because I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
    *snickers* never mind you just proved the point.... if you can't read plain text on the screen and is explained as clearly as can be and can not connect the dots, then it's not my job to make it more simpiler for you.

    How does sacrificing their families and loved ones help remove a foreign force again? You lost me. Silly me, I was under the impression they were not only fighting the US but also each other. Bless these wonderful patriotic individuals.
    Yes indeed. Continuing instability within their country continues your failure in Iraq.... it's as simple as that. Other factors such as religious differences are more of a factor of how your country situated the government and powers each sect has. Both are related to one another.

    Many of them believe in their country more over then their own lives and families.... they're even quoted as saying this above.... what's so difficult to understand?

    You mean after they sacrificed their families and children for this supposed freedom from us evil Americans? Contradictory much?
    Question the motives when the roles are reversed and see where you stand. Sending off your own children and family members to fight in some slack assed, BS, profit war such as this clearly isn't on the same level of devotion for one's country and way of life.... yet I don't seem to see you explaining that away.

    If we split up along religious dividing lines, killed each other, and massacred civilians ourselves, all the while attacking the occupying army we'd be just as reprehensible. And this is of course assuming that your comment isn't completely irrelevant as no religion was imposed on the Iraqi people. Democracy isn't a religion.
    No, but Democracy and values it holds goes against some key factors in their religion, so it's the same equivilant as being a forced religion as it contradicts many of their religious values.

    So when they get working power or water and then an IED blows it up, it's our fault too? You can only do so much work to rebuild an infrastructure if people keep blowing up your work. Use some damn common sense.
    Indeed... use common sense... if they're gonna keep blowing your work up, they don't want your help to begin with, and most feel they'd be better off without you guys, then use your common sense and leave.

    Yeah, Iraq was great before we came there. Reality ftw.
    Now that would be an example of irrelevent. If that's what kind of life they want, then who are you or I to argue? Didn't they get forced on them a Democracy? Then shouldn't they be able to choose if they want Democracy? Shouldn't they be able to choose to kick your arse out of their country? Didn't they aready order Black Water to leave their country and yet they haven't?

    Speaking of Reality.

    Right, so as soon as the US leaves the sectarian violence will also stop. Do you read your posts before you post them?
    Indeed I do, in fact I tend to re-read then 3 or 4 times to make sure I say what I want to say.

    The majority of the violence is between two factions where one is sucking hole to the US and the other wants them out.... as soon as the US is gone, even those who are opposed to the US occupation have said they would cease their attacks and open up talks, but will not do so until the US leaves.

    Darn.... someone saying they can do something without the US's nose in it? Heaven Forbid!

    Oh wait... Irony headache.

    Ok...

    Sorry, you were just accusing me of telling you what the Iraqi's want by telling me what the Iraqi's want.
    Because unlike you, I'm listening to what the people are saying and rough-qoted what I have encountered over the years in reading and listening to them, not what your damn officials are telling you should be done.

    The difference here is, I'm telling you what they are saying, and you're trying to tell me, with some Western Mentality, how it should be and why. That's the difference, so unless you can come on here with a statistic or a poll asked by the Iraqi people and/or the insurgents, then you have nothing to contribute when it comes to what they want, because you clearly haven't done this yet.

    Which has nothing to do with the patriotism of these people you're championing.
    If you can't connect the dots, that's not my problem.

    Oh right, the only people fighting in Iraq are Baathists. Well you certainly have this more figured out than me.
    Did I even say that? Derr... no I didn't. When I say Saddam's people, I ment Iraqis in general... he was the leader of the country, hince his people.... if I ment Baathists I would have said Baathists... stop wasting my time.


  9. #9
    Mass'Debater Praxius's Avatar
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    No, we put out one fire and started another one which turned out worse. Again, completely irrelevant to the patriotism claim you made.
    There was no fire to begin with... you started one fire, claimed to have put it out, and then it became an inferno. Even your officials and generals of the time suggested against an invasion of Iraq because they predicted insurgency and sectritarian violence would occur if Saddam was removed from power, it's very well documented.... it went ignored, it happened, and now it's all your country's own fault alone for not heeding the warnings from day one. What is currently going on in Iraq is your country's responsibility.

    And my claim of patriotism has already been clearly explained, if you do not yet understand it, I suggest you re-read it.

    Try and stay on topic next time and leave your bias at the door.
    There isn't any bias at all.... you don't like the truth of what's going on over there and how they think towards your country and your troops, that's your problem.... take it for what it is, learn from past mistakes, and stop making excuses for your country's actions and trying to justify the un-justifiable.

    I already said I thought the Iraq War was wrong. Any further point claiming otherwise will be responded to with this comment. I just don't have any delusions about what the country was like before like you clearly do.
    I have no delusions of what the country was like before, I didn't come out of the shoe box just yesterday. You guys made a crappy situation even worse without them even asking for it, they're PO'd at you guys, want you to leave their country so they can put the country the way they want, you don't.... put two and two together and you get all of the above. I'm not being biased, I'm just no longer being all prissy with how I say things, because talking nice about it before clearly hasn't gotten through anybody's skulls down there and all I hear are the same recycled garbage all the damn time from people in the US....

    You admit it was wrong to invade.... whoopie, we all heard this before... how the country was before you invaded is clearly irrelevent because they never asked for your help, therefore it apparently wasn't bad enough for you to be sticking your noses in it.... hince, the previous conditions are pointless.

    • You guys were not asked to help
    • You guys stuck your noses into it anyways
    • Now you made it far worse then it has ever been
    • And now you guys have no plan on solving it, except staying longer to piss them off more.

    I keep hearing you guys either say you did it for the right reasons (Which is BS) or you admit that it was wrong, but still provide no solution to this damn mess..... so instead of recycling this useless argument between us, how about you propose your idea of solving this monstrosity of a failure.

    I have one..... LEAVE.

    And if you think I'm PO'd with my Western mentality on this situation... just imagine how PO'd they truly are who have to live through all this.


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