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GreatWyrm of Babylon · Oct 22, 2003, 12:39 am

It cannot be because they do not work, because on the average they put more time into managing their assests than the average person does working.

It cannot be because they are happier, they have a higher suicide rate, and are generally less happy than the average person.

It cannot be because they are stealing your money, since they invest and money not in someones pocket does not affect anyone's income.

It cannot be because they take all the women, figure you can figure that one out.

So why?

Geoff332 · Oct 22, 2003, 12:53 am

I don't hate the rich, so I can't help you.

xm.bretton · Oct 22, 2003, 01:04 am

I dont dislike the rich. Actually, I dont dislike any class... I dislike people.

**Sean** · Oct 22, 2003, 08:47 am

I think people often "hate" the rich (fear is a better word) because they can control the way we live. No other class in society has such an advantage.

G. Adams · Oct 22, 2003, 09:15 am

I don't hate the rich, hell I'd be alone at this university if I did. I just hate the way that they can corrupt democracy. And that their investments are 9/10 times not particularly ethical, ravaging one corner of the earth so they can live in comfort on the other side of it.

zkreso · Oct 22, 2003, 10:22 am

I hate the rich because they are human.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 22, 2003, 12:35 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (GreatWyrm of Babylon,)
It cannot be because they do not work, because on the average they put more time into managing their assests than the average person does working.

It cannot be because they are happier, they have a higher suicide rate, and are generally less happy than the average person.

It cannot be because they are stealing your money, since they invest and money not in someones pocket does not affect anyone's income.

It cannot be because they take all the women, figure you can figure that one out.

So why?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
"My, but I sure do love to set up straw men and knock them down again! It gives me an inflated view of my own self-worth!"

Waychel · Oct 22, 2003, 02:20 pm

Jealousy. The poor will always hate the rich and blame them for their problems because they perceive the rich as having a better standard of living than themselves.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 22, 2003, 03:11 pm

Whatever you say, Miss giggles and pink.

Waychel · Oct 22, 2003, 03:40 pm

??? o__Oa

Hm I didn't mean to state it a matter-of-factly or anything; sorry if I gave that impression.

I am of the opinion that the poor hold animosity towards the rich because they are jealous of the higher standard of living and luxury that the rich accustom themselves to by contrast. If you're driving a Mercedes SLK then that person driving the Pinto next to you will likely be jealous of you to some extent.

That sound better? =PpP Hehe

G. Adams · Oct 22, 2003, 04:38 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,)
Jealousy. The poor will always hate the rich and blame them for their problems because they perceive the rich as having a better standard of living than themselves.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

One guy starves to death, the other takes three or four holidays in a year (or can if he wants too at least).

Which is the poor guy of those two, and is his perception that the rich man has a better life than him correct?

Remember the majority of poor people are not the ones working in walmart on minimum wage, they are the ones cutting the coffee in colombia for walmart, and they have no minimum wage.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 22, 2003, 05:59 pm

Or they are the ones helping comrades out of burning Humvees in a slightly less than friendly country while defending the economic interests of Bechtel group. Or they are the ones petitioning the government for food stamps because their lack of job security was proven by the massive layoffs of another market bubble caused by overspeculation, or because their workplace was closed to take advantage of the nonexistant minimum wage laws in Brazil, China, Argentina, Taiwan. Or they are the ones baking in the hot sun on a hand to mouth basis because of America's artificially low food costs and high import tariffs.

There are plenty of reasons for the poor to hate the rich, most of which stem from the fact that the rich own the poor.

Waychel · Oct 22, 2003, 06:44 pm

Why is it constantly brought up that the poor are starving in debates like these? People on welfare eat better than I am right now. -_- They're far from starving.

The rich got where they were by hard work - education and dedication. These days there's no excuse for someone to be working jobs at Sears in the long-term unless they had kids early on or dropped/flunked out of highschool for their own reasons.

I just have very little sympathy because there are so many opportunities here in the US to get ahead. Other countries though are a whole other issue of course.

Still, I'd have to say it is the difference in quality of lifestyle that causes the poor to hate the rich. The middle class are owned by the rich just the same, but they do not hate them nearly as much. Someone will always be working under/for somebody else no matter how rich. What matters to people is how well that payment from their employer will sustain them.

G. Adams · Oct 22, 2003, 07:19 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,)
Why is it constantly brought up that the poor are starving in debates like these? People on welfare eat better than I am right now. -_- They're far from starving.

The rich got where they were by hard work - education and dedication. These days there's no excuse for someone to be working jobs at Sears in the long-term unless they had kids early on or dropped/flunked out of highschool for their own reasons.

I just have very little sympathy because there are so many opportunities here in the US to get ahead. Other countries though are a whole other issue of course.

Still, I'd have to say it is the difference in quality of lifestyle that causes the poor to hate the rich. The middle class are owned by the rich just the same, but they do not hate them nearly as much. Someone will always be working under/for somebody else no matter how rich. What matters to people is how well that payment from their employer will sustain them.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

There are people living beyond the borders of your country you know? Its not a giant wasteland. Its were your Nikes and your GAP jeans were made, by people who do up to 36 hour shifts. They are the ones dying of malnutrition. And don't just complain that they live outside your country, they have nothing to do with you, because those same *hard working* CEO's who most usually do live in your country are the ones paying them those shitty wages.

And in those countries its not whether those wages will sustain, any wages are better than no wages whether or not they sustain you.

**Sean** · Oct 22, 2003, 08:03 pm

There are people within our borders who can't even afford health insurance, and are part of the "work force" making minimum wage.

Sodfather · Oct 22, 2003, 08:06 pm

I most definitely hate the rich. The reaons are as follows:

The majority of the rich are ostentatious bastards crusing around in their Benzes and Beamers, and arrogant thinking they have more rights than others because they make triple their salary. In fact, some do have more rights than others with their snobby little shit cliques in the community: a little ignored speeding violation here, a cop looks the other way when he finds Mr. Snobb's kid boozing, and eventually the unethical advantages of the rich get worse and worse.

But I can't say if I was rich that I wouldn't show every fucking person in the neighborhood by buying a $75,000 car...I mean, why do you buy a luxury car for $75,000 when you can have all the luxury you'd ever need in an automobile worth $50,000? For show - there's no other explanation.

Hmm...That's a sloppy post, I hope you get where I'm coming from. I dislike caste systems, but living in America you have to accept the caste system, and you may even take part in it after hating it as I do.

What can I say? Talk is cheap. I'd hop into a Beamer in an instant. :(

TwoShanks · Oct 22, 2003, 10:37 pm

I dislike rich people because they have things I want but can't afford. Jealousy is all it comes down to. Then again, I am extremely poor and faintly paranoid and consider that most people in the world exist solely to make things less good for me.

Also, since I am poor, I consider anyone who can afford to eat more than one meal a day to be wealthy. Recently I have been arguing with my housemates because they keep turning the heating on in the house. They don't seem to realise that I can't actually afford to pay a share in a large gas bill, because they are all wealthy.

Waychel · Oct 22, 2003, 10:54 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams,)
There are people living beyond the borders of your country you know? Its not a giant wasteland. Its were your Nikes and your GAP jeans were made, by people who do up to 36 hour shifts. They are the ones dying of malnutrition. And don't just complain that they live outside your country, they have nothing to do with you, because those same *hard working* CEO's who most usually do live in your country are the ones paying them those shitty wages.

And in those countries its not whether those wages will sustain, any wages are better than no wages whether or not they sustain you.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I just have very little sympathy because there are so many opportunities here in the US to get ahead. Other countries though are a whole other issue of course.

Also, Nike and GAP do not have 36 hour shifts. Nike and Reebok reshaped during the 80s after harsh criticism from human rights groups as well as pressure from the government. Reebok itself pays the equivelent of $1.00 more than the minimum wage to their foreign employees and has set the standard for humane conditions and considerate payment of foreign workers overseas. If people overseas are dieng from malnutrition, its not because they're overworked and underpaid by those major corporations. The workers may not get any benefits or health plans, but these companies do make the effort to give them humane working conditions, hours and payment. Bad press is never good press, especially when everyone is a philanthropist these days.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 22, 2003, 11:02 pm

Dear lord; how they have sheltered you, poor girl.

http://www.saigon.com/~nike/reports/report1.html

**Sean** · Oct 22, 2003, 11:08 pm

yea, I respect all opinions, but you've really been in a dreamworld if you think that Nike has changed. (nice source you have there rebel)

TwoShanks,

I used to be the same way, but then I thought about what consuming "the latest and greatest" does for me. I get excited about products, but then after I get them I'm already disappointed.

There's much more to live for. The only reason I'd ever want to be rich is so I could build something bigger than me, or protect myself from the obvious corruption that exists today. Want an example of the corruption in my life? I work for a shop that sells electronics, and I get out of speeding tickets just by mentioning the place I work for. We hire retired cops to work the security where I work.....it's a free pass :) I know that's a weak example, but it taught me what it takes to avoid problems with the law.

Oct 22, 2003, 12:39 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	It cannot be because they do not work, because on the average they put more time into managing their assests than the average person does working. It cannot be because they are happier, they have a higher suicide rate, and are generally less happy than the average person. It cannot be because they are stealing your money, since they invest and money not in someones pocket does not affect anyone's income. It cannot be because they take all the women, figure you can figure that one out. So why? Logical Fallicies Link

Oct 22, 2003, 01:04 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
xm.bretton Molten Ash Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 89	I dont dislike the rich. Actually, I dont dislike any class... I dislike people. xm.bretton xhalation.com

Oct 22, 2003, 08:47 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	I think people often "hate" the rich (fear is a better word) because they can control the way we live. No other class in society has such an advantage. So it goes

Oct 22, 2003, 09:15 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	I don't hate the rich, hell I'd be alone at this university if I did. I just hate the way that they can corrupt democracy. And that their investments are 9/10 times not particularly ethical, ravaging one corner of the earth so they can live in comfort on the other side of it. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 22, 2003, 12:35 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (GreatWyrm of Babylon,) It cannot be because they do not work, because on the average they put more time into managing their assests than the average person does working. It cannot be because they are happier, they have a higher suicide rate, and are generally less happy than the average person. It cannot be because they are stealing your money, since they invest and money not in someones pocket does not affect anyone's income. It cannot be because they take all the women, figure you can figure that one out. So why?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> "My, but I sure do love to set up straw men and knock them down again! It gives me an inflated view of my own self-worth!" . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 22, 2003, 12:53 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Geoff332 Igneous Magma Location: New Zealand Posts: 309	I don't hate the rich, so I can't help you.

Oct 22, 2003, 10:22 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
zkreso Sedimentary Rock Location: Norway Posts: 21	I hate the rich because they are human.

Oct 22, 2003, 02:20 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Jealousy. The poor will always hate the rich and blame them for their problems because they perceive the rich as having a better standard of living than themselves. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 22, 2003, 03:11 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Whatever you say, Miss giggles and pink. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 22, 2003, 03:40 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	??? o__Oa Hm I didn't mean to state it a matter-of-factly or anything; sorry if I gave that impression. I am of the opinion that the poor hold animosity towards the rich because they are jealous of the higher standard of living and luxury that the rich accustom themselves to by contrast. If you're driving a Mercedes SLK then that person driving the Pinto next to you will likely be jealous of you to some extent. That sound better? =PpP Hehe Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 22, 2003, 04:38 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,) Jealousy. The poor will always hate the rich and blame them for their problems because they perceive the rich as having a better standard of living than themselves.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> One guy starves to death, the other takes three or four holidays in a year (or can if he wants too at least). Which is the poor guy of those two, and is his perception that the rich man has a better life than him correct? Remember the majority of poor people are not the ones working in walmart on minimum wage, they are the ones cutting the coffee in colombia for walmart, and they have no minimum wage. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 22, 2003, 05:59 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Or they are the ones helping comrades out of burning Humvees in a slightly less than friendly country while defending the economic interests of Bechtel group. Or they are the ones petitioning the government for food stamps because their lack of job security was proven by the massive layoffs of another market bubble caused by overspeculation, or because their workplace was closed to take advantage of the nonexistant minimum wage laws in Brazil, China, Argentina, Taiwan. Or they are the ones baking in the hot sun on a hand to mouth basis because of America's artificially low food costs and high import tariffs. There are plenty of reasons for the poor to hate the rich, most of which stem from the fact that the rich own the poor. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 22, 2003, 06:44 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Why is it constantly brought up that the poor are starving in debates like these? People on welfare eat better than I am right now. -_- They're far from starving. The rich got where they were by hard work - education and dedication. These days there's no excuse for someone to be working jobs at Sears in the long-term unless they had kids early on or dropped/flunked out of highschool for their own reasons. I just have very little sympathy because there are so many opportunities here in the US to get ahead. Other countries though are a whole other issue of course. Still, I'd have to say it is the difference in quality of lifestyle that causes the poor to hate the rich. The middle class are owned by the rich just the same, but they do not hate them nearly as much. Someone will always be working under/for somebody else no matter how rich. What matters to people is how well that payment from their employer will sustain them. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 22, 2003, 07:19 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,) Why is it constantly brought up that the poor are starving in debates like these? People on welfare eat better than I am right now. -_- They're far from starving. The rich got where they were by hard work - education and dedication. These days there's no excuse for someone to be working jobs at Sears in the long-term unless they had kids early on or dropped/flunked out of highschool for their own reasons. I just have very little sympathy because there are so many opportunities here in the US to get ahead. Other countries though are a whole other issue of course. Still, I'd have to say it is the difference in quality of lifestyle that causes the poor to hate the rich. The middle class are owned by the rich just the same, but they do not hate them nearly as much. Someone will always be working under/for somebody else no matter how rich. What matters to people is how well that payment from their employer will sustain them.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> There are people living beyond the borders of your country you know? Its not a giant wasteland. Its were your Nikes and your GAP jeans were made, by people who do up to 36 hour shifts. They are the ones dying of malnutrition. And don't just complain that they live outside your country, they have nothing to do with you, because those same hard working CEO's who most usually do live in your country are the ones paying them those shitty wages. And in those countries its not whether those wages will sustain, any wages are better than no wages whether or not they sustain you. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 22, 2003, 08:03 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	There are people within our borders who can't even afford health insurance, and are part of the "work force" making minimum wage. So it goes

Oct 22, 2003, 08:06 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	I most definitely hate the rich. The reaons are as follows: The majority of the rich are ostentatious bastards crusing around in their Benzes and Beamers, and arrogant thinking they have more rights than others because they make triple their salary. In fact, some do have more rights than others with their snobby little shit cliques in the community: a little ignored speeding violation here, a cop looks the other way when he finds Mr. Snobb's kid boozing, and eventually the unethical advantages of the rich get worse and worse. But I can't say if I was rich that I wouldn't show every fucking person in the neighborhood by buying a $75,000 car...I mean, why do you buy a luxury car for $75,000 when you can have all the luxury you'd ever need in an automobile worth $50,000? For show - there's no other explanation. Hmm...That's a sloppy post, I hope you get where I'm coming from. I dislike caste systems, but living in America you have to accept the caste system, and you may even take part in it after hating it as I do. What can I say? Talk is cheap. I'd hop into a Beamer in an instant. :(

Oct 22, 2003, 10:37 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
TwoShanks Molten Ash Posts: 29	I dislike rich people because they have things I want but can't afford. Jealousy is all it comes down to. Then again, I am extremely poor and faintly paranoid and consider that most people in the world exist solely to make things less good for me. Also, since I am poor, I consider anyone who can afford to eat more than one meal a day to be wealthy. Recently I have been arguing with my housemates because they keep turning the heating on in the house. They don't seem to realise that I can't actually afford to pay a share in a large gas bill, because they are all wealthy.

Oct 22, 2003, 10:54 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams,) There are people living beyond the borders of your country you know? Its not a giant wasteland. Its were your Nikes and your GAP jeans were made, by people who do up to 36 hour shifts. They are the ones dying of malnutrition. And don't just complain that they live outside your country, they have nothing to do with you, because those same hard working CEO's who most usually do live in your country are the ones paying them those shitty wages. And in those countries its not whether those wages will sustain, any wages are better than no wages whether or not they sustain you.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I just have very little sympathy because there are so many opportunities here in the US to get ahead. Other countries though are a whole other issue of course. Also, Nike and GAP do not have 36 hour shifts. Nike and Reebok reshaped during the 80s after harsh criticism from human rights groups as well as pressure from the government. Reebok itself pays the equivelent of $1.00 more than the minimum wage to their foreign employees and has set the standard for humane conditions and considerate payment of foreign workers overseas. If people overseas are dieng from malnutrition, its not because they're overworked and underpaid by those major corporations. The workers may not get any benefits or health plans, but these companies do make the effort to give them humane working conditions, hours and payment. Bad press is never good press, especially when everyone is a philanthropist these days. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Oct 22, 2003, 11:02 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Dear lord; how they have sheltered you, poor girl. http://www.saigon.com/~nike/reports/report1.html . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 22, 2003, 11:08 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	yea, I respect all opinions, but you've really been in a dreamworld if you think that Nike has changed. (nice source you have there rebel) TwoShanks, I used to be the same way, but then I thought about what consuming "the latest and greatest" does for me. I get excited about products, but then after I get them I'm already disappointed. There's much more to live for. The only reason I'd ever want to be rich is so I could build something bigger than me, or protect myself from the obvious corruption that exists today. Want an example of the corruption in my life? I work for a shop that sells electronics, and I get out of speeding tickets just by mentioning the place I work for. We hire retired cops to work the security where I work.....it's a free pass :) I know that's a weak example, but it taught me what it takes to avoid problems with the law. So it goes