I'm not an american, so I don't think that's the problem.The key to our countries downfall is the hollow sentiment that you echo.
I'm not an american, so I don't think that's the problem.The key to our countries downfall is the hollow sentiment that you echo.
We need to legalize those Mexicans and issue them credit cards. Two scenarios: One, a Mexican comes to America illegally. It is his second time here, so he knows it could be any random day that they send him back. Does he reinvest the money he earns here into America or into his family in Mexico? The latter, for obvious reasons. Second scenario: A Mexican comes to America legally. The border has been opened much wider. He makes money without the fear of losing it. Does he then send money back home? Possibly, or, he saves his money and pays to bring his family to our country.
You're a racist because it isn't the money that their sending back to Mexico that has you worried but that their culture will influence our own. I've been heavily influenced by the Latino culture here in Los Angeles and I'm the better for it. I like how Mexicans think about the government, comedy, women, and money.
That's a flimsy analysis of the situation. I think that most people welcome the influence of (most) other cultures. I've personally been very influenced by Japanese culture. We all tend to love (in varying degrees from person to person) anime, sushi, sake, ramen, chopsticks, J-pop/techno; mariachi, tacos, burritos, cerveza; matzo, bagels, schmear; pho; things like that. Many people learn a second language. I speak three, with varying success. I don't think that racism really figures in that much.
Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6
What a narrow minded assault. I'm fine with their culture. I lived in Tucson, Arizona for ten years. I grew up there. My best friend was Mexican. His family was great. I remember his grampy, who only spoke broken English, being an influence in my life. Encouraging us to work hard. Always coming up with rather hard chores for us to do, then handing us a few dollars and a speech about working for our worth. My friend would translate for him.Quote by: Suburbanite
My neighborhood was predominately minorities. I only knew of a few whites in the hood. Mostly Asian and Latino. When I came to Indiana, I as shocked by the racism. The word "nigger" being thrown around. Scummy whites acting like their better then minorities strictly by default of their having white skin.
But things have changed. Millions of Mexicans come here illegally and do not even try to learn English. Rather, they insist that we learn Spanish to accomodate them.They rape our welfare and healthcare system. They send millions of dollars out of our country. They commit abhorrent crimes here, leave back to Mexico, and then return with full anonymity as if they were a ghost. ITS A PROBLEM!
It must be addressed as a problem or else things are gonna get ugly, fast. I'm so sick of this narrow minded idiot shit. Calling me a racist because I cite a problem that involves a minority. Thats a dirty trick, and I'm not falling for your politically correct nonsense. Political correctness is a shield that illegal immigrants hide behind. People become afraid to raise their voices in opposition, for fear of being labeled a racist. Enough already. Be real about it and stop with the blanket labeling.
What? Credit cards? I was born here in America and I had a job from the age of 17, and I couldn't get a decent line of credit until I was 24. So we just give more fucking handouts? More damn handouts? Thats your F'in solution to the problem?
Sorry, white guy, your not brown enough to qualify for our line of credit. Ohhh, hey Juan, you qualify for a line of credit because you're brown.
Thats really messed up on so many levels.
Dear Optimist, Pessimist and Realist, while you guys were arguing about the glass of water, I drank it! ~ Sincerely, the Opportunist.
Fine with their culture or not, when you bash "illegals" who come here to escape deep poverty, you're essentially calling for their deaths.
Grandpa h.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
What I'm calling for is to fix Mexico. Its obvious that Mexicans are quite patriotic, despite risking life and limb to illegally enter my country, they remain seemingly loyal to their nation. Instead of overwhelming my nation with refugees, and making a bad situation worse. Lets concentrate on what we can do to encourage them to have an "America" in South America.
I'm not willing to sacrifice my way of life so Jorge Ramirez can have a better life for his family. Illegal immigration is a problem. It needs to be addressed without all this "You're a racist" garbage clouding the issue.
The point of this thread wasn't meant to get mired in a discussion on the merits of illegal immigration. More so, it was meant to address the strange phenomenon of Mexicans going to such great lengths to escape a shitty country, only to wave the flag of that shitty country, here, on my turf.
They wonder why we feel as though we are being invaded. When we see criminals entering our nation by the millions each year, and posting foreign flags all about.
As well, I am puzzled as to why more legal Mexican immigrants aren't screaming at the top of their lungs in opposition to illegal immigration. They did it the right way, and yet they seem to support those whom do not.
Dear Optimist, Pessimist and Realist, while you guys were arguing about the glass of water, I drank it! ~ Sincerely, the Opportunist.
People can escape poverty without breaking the laws of the nation they seek to escape TO, at least, if they want the respect of that nations people for their plight.
I have no respect for illegals.... regardless of their claimed intentions.
My family, three generations ago, came to this nation seeking freedom from tyranny, and freedom from poverty, but they came here legally.
Its an insult to all Americans to claim illegals have the same rights as legal citizens, legal immigrants, and legal PARTICIPANTS of our economy.
Petition of Redress of Grievances:
http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm
Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/
Osborn F. Enready
Well, if you want to "fix Mexico," you're not going to do it by beefing up America's police state and deporting everyone and breaking up their families and crowding the poor into detention centers. That's how to create a more tyrannical economic/political/prison system. It's also shifting blame to the victims of law and order.
And that is indeed a racist thing, as our government has before, and will again begin regarding all Mexican immigrants as possible "illegals" ("illegal" is another quasi-racist term, at best).
In fact, if you look at history, our immigration system had much different standards for white immigrants than it did for non-whites. It's a racist history, which is why people address it as such. Also, one of the reasons for animosity between Mexico and the US is the US wanted to expand further at a time when Mexico had abolished slavery. So it's not a dishonest debate technique, it is THE honest approach: You look at a system with an overtly racist and sadistic/tyrannical history and call it what it is.
I'm ok with mexicans being here precisely becausethey are doing it illegally (breaking unnecessary, unjust laws). If illegal immigrants try to unionize (as some of them have done), I support that too. This is because this "legal status" is unjust, depersonalizes human beings, breaks up families, feeds racist attitudes and maintains a system of economic and political domination (and plainly so).
Crying the "The Mexicans are coming! The Mexicans are
coming!" isn't going to solve one goddamn thing for Mexico, but it'll strengthen the worst principles in our government and give nutcases like Tom Tancredo (and Minutemen and white supremacist groups) new leases on life.
But I agree its in bad taste for Mexicans to be loyal to the Mexican flag. They shouldn't be loyal to any nation.
Grandpa h.
Last edited by grandpa; 8th October 2007 at 03:16 PM.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
Actually, many people cannot escape poverty without breaking some laws.
Your selfishness does not allow to sympathize with their plight, nor does your nationalism and sense of superiority.
You also talk about what your ancestors did. Well, they may have catered to the governments unjust and arbitrary standards (more easy to do for those who were white), but that doesn't justify them now, and it didn't justify them then.
You imply this is about equality, but this is no kind of equality at all. Your argument here means we should see basic human interests thwarted like our ancestors' were. It suggests standards today should be equal to those of the past. It's a see-through argument that goes nowhere. It could be and should be fervently debunked.
Libertarianism is about going out of one's way to throw off the yoke of authority. You do not match that description. You want the government and abstract legal statuses to reign over actual human beings--so stop preaching about "Liberty," please. We would be unwise to cling to past restrictions because they romanticized our ancestors. They didn't romanticize them any more than they mocked them.
The "illegal immigrant" status exists so cheap labor can't
demand more pay or other perceived rights, because doing so is illegal. That was true in the relatively distant past, and it's true today. It also exists to help feed nationalism, which tends to spill right into militarism. That's also why jobs and militarism is shifting to cheaper labor pools, or simply disappearing (the jobs part, anyway)--it's illegal in many countries for workers to organize (even if only being "de facto" illegal). And, of course, workers in these countries need to be kept in checked if this global (not national) system of tyranny is to be maintained.
Grandpa h.
Last edited by grandpa; 8th October 2007 at 07:50 PM.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
You need to spend some time living in North Korea, buddy. Maybe then you would learn what tyranny really is. You are a manifestation of a spoiled, self entitled society. You have no idea what its like to actually be oppressed.
Dear Optimist, Pessimist and Realist, while you guys were arguing about the glass of water, I drank it! ~ Sincerely, the Opportunist.
Nice cop out argument, "buddy," but we're not just talking about me, are we? That being said, show me how this system is not in any way tyrannical. A system of authority must justify itself, not me. You have obliquely and vaguely suggested America is not very tyrannical, so you clearly have a position.
Here's mine:
There are plenty of illegitimate authorities in America (in fact, the vast majority of them are illegitimate, in my view). In fact, any system that places abstract legal statuses above actual human needs is inherently tyrannical.
That's a pretty straightforwrad position, quite comprehensive and understandable (I think). Now, what's yours? Is it simply that I have to pack my bags to go to North Korea in order to prove your nonsensical point?
Grandpa h.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
Well I'm 21 and I have a $30,000 line of credit, so it can't be that hard for White people. Your inability to manage credit is probably not racially motivated. My argument is not to force credit cards on Mexicans with bad credit. The system should remain the same. The way it is now, illegal Mexicans can get credit cards and default on their payments, send the whole line of credit back to Mexico. And why? Because by making them illegal immigrants we've described for them a permanent home in Mexico. They want to send money home. If home was America for them, it would be a different story. All of the legalized Mexicans are contributing to the "system" as much as anyone else, and it isn't like we don't have the room for them.
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