Rappers?

[Sbh052]

Do you think that rappers post a negative image to young kids?

Eminem is a perfect example. You listen to the lyrics of his songs, and if you are not used to hearing such things, your jaw would drop to the floor. He talks about how his ex wife should die, raping people, killing people, etc. etc.


Personally, I think that hearing those types of things from stars, and famous people, it makes kids want to be more like them. Thats why they go shoot people with pellet guns, or carry knives.

[shawmutt]

Of course kids want to be like their heroes. It's easier to be a gansta with a gun than excel in school.

[another day]

Of course they are. This is not an alarmist attitude because I've seen it first hand. Teenagers listen to rap and want to be gangsters..they start carrying around weapons and starting drunken fights for no reason. They become materialistic and obsessed with clothing and jewelery, and superficial looks. To them there is nothing more honorable or likable then a gangster.

Compare that with mainstream youth trends of the past, like the hippie movement, and tell me which one is better.

[padrisimo]

gangster rap espouses violence, objectification of women, drug use, and an all out rejection of the law, plus it is a worthless music which requires seemingly no talent.

[iclaudius]

Quote by: padrisimo gangster rap espouses violence, objectification of women, drug use, and an all out rejection of the law, plus it is a worthless music which requires seemingly no talent.

Said the man with the Avenged Sevenfold avatar. And what, exactly, is wrong with rejecting the law? What's the worse that could happen if you objectify women? Raise questions? Oh, the horror. Removing the influence of rap from our gun-toting culture is not going to solve the problem, it is going to change how it is expressed. You must change the culture and the way people think in order to change that rap affects people in a "negative" way.

[shawmutt]

Said the man with the Avenged Sevenfold avatar.

LMAO owned.

I agree and would take it further. Most music involves little talent. I listened to metal of all sorts in my teenage years--there's plenty of aspects that are parallel to rap.

Yeah, you know, now that I think of it, I can't see any difference between the metal listening, mullet headed, ripped jeans wearing punk I was back in the day and the rap listening, fro headed, jeans so big they're falling off punk today.

At least they aren't emo.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: iclaudius Said the man with the Avenged Sevenfold avatar. And what, exactly, is wrong with rejecting the law? What's the worse that could happen if you objectify women? Raise questions? Oh, the horror. Removing the influence of rap from our gun-toting culture is not going to solve the problem, it is going to change how it is expressed. You must change the culture and the way people think in order to change that rap affects people in a "negative" way.

It engenders a culture that worships the idea of sexual experience and appetite as opposed to commitment and mutual respect. It tells young men to go out and have as much sex as you can because you have no responsibility toward the women that you do it with. It renders women into something less than human...and it sticks them with the bill. And it makes relationships empty.

[shawmutt]

It engenders a culture that worships the idea of sexual experience and appetite as opposed to commitment and mutual respect. It tells young men to go out and have as much sex as you can because you have no responsibility toward the women that you do it with. It renders women into something less than human...and it sticks them with the bill. And it makes relationships empty.

Rap is responsible for all the porn on the Internet.

[iclaudius]

Quote by: phoenix_fire It engenders a culture that worships the idea of sexual experience and appetite as opposed to commitment and mutual respect. It tells young men to go out and have as much sex as you can because you have no responsibility toward the women that you do it with. It renders women into something less than human...and it sticks them with the bill. And it makes relationships empty.

Phen, believe me, I understand why that seems like the logical conclusion, but it's not the objectification in itself that causes these problems. It's a symptom of the real problem, which is the universal human tendency to be fucking stupid. That problem must be fixed in a different way for the same reason burying "nigger" isn't going to solve n-word-related problems. We must teach our children to be skeptical and open-minded. The rest will fall into place.

Quote by: shawmutt LMAO owned. I agree and would take it further. Most music involves little talent. I listened to metal of all sorts in my teenage years--there's plenty of aspects that are parallel to rap. Yeah, you know, now that I think of it, I can't see any difference between the metal listening, mullet headed, ripped jeans wearing punk I was back in the day and the rap listening, fro headed, jeans so big they're falling off punk today. At least they aren't emo.

Eh. It's less important to me what people like, so much as they have good reasons for liking it. I pointed out that his taste is equally vulnerable mostly because he had the audacity to blame his opinion on the rappers, and not himself. It's a cowardly thing to do.




Also, I hate AS and I couldn't resist.

[Ibn_Sina]

In the 80s, Hip-hop was a remedy for Black people or victims of racism. Legendary Hip-hop acts like Public Enemy did not promote objectification of women or materialism. Their lyrics reflected the condition of their lives in the ghettos and racism in general...

Hip-hop played a political role, just as Black poetry in apartheid South Africa. It gave their people hope and something to enjoy.

However, the US government did not like political or revolutionary rap, which could mobilise Black people. That is why, all these distribution labels (all owned by Whites) started commercialising the music, replacing political rap with gangsta rap. You may blame Black artists for selling themselves out like that, however, what it meant for them is economic improvement.

[iclaudius]

Ibn, that's bullshit. There is no white-propagated agenda to replace substantive music with crap. Things are this way because people buy gangsta rap, not because we wanted people to buy gangsta rap. The fact that most rap is produced, written, developed, and owned by blacks alone pretty much destroys your case. BET, rockafella, etc. are all owned by blacks. To say there's some white guy out back yanking on the strings is just dumb.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: iclaudius Ibn, that's bullshit. There is no white-propagated agenda to replace substantive music with crap. Things are this way because people buy gangsta rap, not because we wanted people to buy gangsta rap. The fact that most rap is produced, written, developed, and owned by blacks alone pretty much destroys your case. BET, rockafella, etc. are all owned by blacks. To say there's some white guy out back yanking on the strings is just dumb.

Agreed. I also agree that children should be taught to think. But I would also note that there is a pretty big vacuum in that area and that children that are not taught to think simply learn to imitate. It is a basic problem solving strategy. Even our schools teach that one should memorise facts and equations without learning the theory, or that writing something with all of the teacher's favorite buzzwords will get you a good grade. In an ideal world, young people would think for themselves, but in the real world most of them don't.

[Gods_Mercenary]

At least they aren't emo.

Amen, brother.

Rap is responsible for all the porn on the Internet.

I thought that was my creepy college roomate.

[iclaudius]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Agreed. I also agree that children should be taught to think. But I would also note that there is a pretty big vacuum in that area and that children that are not taught to think simply learn to imitate. It is a basic problem solving strategy. Even our schools teach that one should memorise facts and equations without learning the theory, or that writing something with all of the teacher's favorite buzzwords will get you a good grade. In an ideal world, young people would think for themselves, but in the real world most of them don't.

We're getting better. That is to say, the situation may be comparatively worse from when there were less people, but we're getting better about educating large amounts of people. We've got a long way to go, but we're getting better.

[another day]

Quote by: iclaudius Phen, believe me, I understand why that seems like the logical conclusion, but it's not the objectification in itself that causes these problems. It's a symptom of the real problem, which is the universal human tendency to be fucking stupid. That problem must be fixed in a different way for the same reason burying "nigger" isn't going to solve n-word-related problems. We must teach our children to be skeptical and open-minded. The rest will fall into place..

But that's never going to happen. The majority of youth will always succumb to the mainstream trends, so the best solution is to introduce at least mostly positive trends, ie hippie movement.

[shawmutt]

ie hippie movement

Drug induced long haired tie dyed unshowered teen free love? That's a positive trend?

No thanks, what we really need to do is bring back the big band era.

[Gods_Mercenary]

This talk of hippies gave me an idea for the "What pisses you off" thread

[iclaudius]

Quote by: another day But that's never going to happen. The majority of youth will always succumb to the mainstream trends, so the best solution is to introduce at least mostly positive trends, ie hippie movement.

Perhaps it won't happen, but since when is the best option to fight unreason with more unreason? When you do things like "bury" words, you are at best trading effects, at worst burying part of yourself. And so the dogma prevails. You can say what you want about relieving us of the burden of sex discrimination, but when no one is thinking about what they're doing, it's still a bad thing. If you start encouraging people to not think one way, instead of not thinking another way, you may not like where you end up, and there's no way to tell where you're going because no one can adapt intelligently to anything.

[another day]

Quote by: shawmutt Drug induced long haired tie dyed unshowered teen free love? That's a positive trend? No thanks, what we really need to do is bring back the big band era.

Yes, peace and love versus materialism and violence is a positive trend.

There's nothing wrong with drug use, and I don't see why you see, "long haired, tie dyed, unshowered" as being bad things.

[Netopalis]

I've never liked rap - but it's not the musical genre, it's the "artists" who are causing the problems. I am sure that not all rap artists are advocating the things mentioned in this thread, and parents should treat it like all other music with disturbing and distressing lyrics, and teach their children that there's a better way to live life. Unfortunately, parents today rarely take an active role in their children's education, and this moral learning never takes place. Apathy is just as much a problem as gangster rap.