Grand Theft Auto.

[Duke1985]

Quote by: Sbh052 Grand Theft Auto is a popular Play Station 2 game. The game involves shooting people, stealing cars, house breaks, drug deals, and prostitution. The game is rated T for Teen, but you see seven year olds playing it. My seven year old nephew loves it. He absolulty loves it. His mother lets him play it, while my sister and I protest, saying it's not suitable for a child. What are your opinions? Do you think that if a child grows up playing violent games such as GTA, they will grow up as a killer, or to pick up prostitutes?

The game is rated M by the way, which means if your 7 year old nephew is playing it, someone needs to get up and start doing some parenting.
I don't think a kid that grows up playing violent games will grow up to be a killer, because there have always been violent games. Kids always play cowboys and indians or cops and robbers, but they have fake guns and pretend to shoot eachother.
If that made you violent almost every one of us would have killed someone.

[ZNFYRH]

Praxius

Do you really want to do this?

Quote by: Praxius There is no mission or reward in any of the GTA games that does this.... this isn't even remotely towards the atmosphere in the game.

Incorrect. In GTA San Andreas you can get the convertible behind one of the stores near the barber shop and fast food restaurant just west of your house in the Grove. In the Pimp missions, your job is to either drive your hookers to a job, pick them up from a job, or beat up someone beating up your hookers.

The reward I speak of is when your mission is complete you can get out of your car and beat the hooker to death, thus getting the money that she carries on her.

Or you can park in some alley with her, use her for sex and extra health, then beat her to death and recover your money.

Quote by: Praxius Oh I see... you're gonna try and play the race card in this debate..... how pathetic. You just admitted you agree that kids won't do this in real life..... 1st.... doesn't this dispute your own argument? 2nd.... where the hell does the race card come into effect here?

I'm not "playing a race card." In less than 5 minutes, I can get up from my chair and walk to a neighborhood where kids have been known to get in trouble in school for emulating C.J.

The reason I bring up race is because you have no reason to identify with those characters. If a 7 year old Black kid in an inner city neighborhood from a broken home is playing GTA:SA, they are going to identify with C.J. The problem here is, quite simply, you don't understand what it's like to be these kids. Even white kids who are amazed and enamored by the Black culture around them look up to C.J. who is the conflicted hero... he does bad but he does it to fight a greater evil.

Quote by: Praxius It's not a promotion of that lifestyle, it's shedding light onto something that many like to shut away from society as something that's non-existant, that life is perfect..... well it's not, and perhaps education in this is the best thing to do, so it can be resolved sometime down the road.

Congratulations. That was a very good summary of the virtues of the plot of the game.

Now pretend you're 7 years old. 7 year olds don't look at it that way, and if you tell me that you would have you're a bald-faced liar. A 7 year old plopped down in front of a Sony Babysitter 2 and playing GTA:SA is not going to understand the subtleties of the plot that you and I pick up on instantly.

Quote by: Praxius About Tommy.... that game was a pretty close cut from the movie Scarface, only Tommy is given a mission in Vice City to start making rounds and income for a larger organization, however he is not aware of that organization taking him over in the end and expresses not to back down to what you feel is right that you have worked hard for in your life.

He worked hard to become the crime boss of VC!! Play through to the end of the game again and notice the part where he admits he is a cop-killing drug-dealing psychopath.

Quote by: Praxius You Ask

Who asks? The parent or the 7 year old? Nice way to avoid the questions. Have a kid and tell me how that works out for you.

Quote by: Praxius Hell I was taught as a very young age all of this..... and in fact, many kids are still taught this stuff in school at a young age that most would think isn't the time for them, since they are still in their teens..... yet when do you educate your kids on these matters?

So at 7 years old you understood how sex felt? And you understood S.T.D.'s? And you understood pregnancy and what that meant for a couple that was unprepared? I doubt you did.

You may have been told about those things... but at 7 years old you really can't understand them.

Quote by: Praxius How old is that? Please tell me? How long do you expect to prolong their innocence of the world before they have to realize what's around them? Your children will know when it is time to understand these things, when they begin to ask you questions about them.... if you don't tell them then.... they'll just go and google it.

Precisely.

That means waiting for them to ask and not letting them derive their questions from a game where it is glorified.

I always find it funny when someone without children talks about how to raise them. It's entirely different when you feel the responsible of raising a child and not just the principles.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Praxius Do you really want to do this?

Sure I got nothing better to do:

Incorrect. In GTA San Andreas you can get the convertible behind one of the stores near the barber shop and fast food restaurant just west of your house in the Grove. In the Pimp missions, your job is to either drive your hookers to a job, pick them up from a job, or beat up someone beating up your hookers.

Isn't that exactly what I just said? FFS people Read!!

The closest thing that relates would be the pimping mission in GTA:SA, however you do not harm the prostitutes, you protect them from other idiots like the above you mentioned in the game.

How does this relate to beating your prostitutes up with no regard?

The reward I speak of is when your mission is complete you can get out of your car and beat the hooker to death, thus getting the money that she carries on her.

Holy fok man.... does the game tell you to do this? No... you're own sick actions did this.... I've don't this mission several times, I know what I'm talking about.... you clearly don't and now you're blaming your own actions of beating up the girl in the game and stealing her money as something the game promoted. You did it.... you could have just let her go out of the car and walk away and go do another mission....

Don't go nit-picking your own sick actions in the game as the game's promotion.

Or you can park in some alley with her, use her for sex and extra health, then beat her to death and recover your money.

Didn't I just say this:

When GTA3 came out.... they showed a clip where a player picked up a prostitute, had sex, got their health up, and when they left the car the player killed the prostitute and took their money back...... The game does not promote this.... the player in question and their own morals do..... that's the key to the game... making your own decisions as to what you do in the GTA world.

I think you're blaming your own sick actions onto something else because it's easier.

I'm not "playing a race card." In less than 5 minutes, I can get up from my chair and walk to a neighborhood where kids have been known to get in trouble in school for emulating C.J.

Riiiight..... so where does this come into play as trying to identify me as a middle-class white boy? As if I don't know wtf goes on in the world?

I seem to know more of what's going on out there then you do.

The reason I bring up race is because you have no reason to identify with those characters. If a 7 year old Black kid in an inner city neighborhood from a broken home is playing GTA:SA, they are going to identify with C.J. The problem here is, quite simply, you don't understand what it's like to be these kids.

Apparently you have no frigging clue as to my family's diversity and background.... great fokking ignorant assumption there.... keep them coming.

I know exactly what they go through... I do live in a city at the moment by the way..... and it is irrelevent.... if you played the game all the way through, you'd see that the game is a positive influence for those people in that situation, as it helps show that there is much more out there in the world then just the street you call home...... but you wouldn't understand that it would seem.

Even white kids who are amazed and enamored by the Black culture around them look up to C.J. who is the conflicted hero... he does bad but he does it to fight a greater evil.

Oh geez... .look out.... A computer game character will be the next Hitler!!! OMG!! :rolleyes:

Now pretend you're 7 years old. 7 year olds don't look at it that way, and if you tell me that you would have you're a bald-faced liar.

Then I guess I'm a liar.... because I haven't lived such a sheltered life as you have apparently. My parents have the proper brain function to educate me on the world around me at a young age...... if you're parents sheltered you as much as it seems then that's not my dam fault you're ignorant.

A 7 year old plopped down in front of a Sony Babysitter 2 and playing GTA:SA is not going to understand the subtleties of the plot that you and I pick up on instantly.

Deerrrr..... that's why I said it boils down to the parent's responsibility of educating the child.... if you're not gonna teach the kid about it, then don't give it to him.... simple.

He worked hard to become the crime boss of VC!! Play through to the end of the game again and notice the part where he admits he is a cop-killing drug-dealing psychopath.

Ya huh..... a fictional game character saying that.... whoopie do.... Now I suppose this is where I say I'm a pizza eating, shredder kicking, technodrome sinking, ninja turtle too huh? :rolleyes: Hell that movie sure did look pretty real when I was a lad.... maybe all this time it was actually real and perhaps I should go live in a sewer?

Who asks? The parent or the 7 year old? Nice way to avoid the questions. Have a kid and tell me how that works out for you.

Don't give me that crap.... The child asks.... that's how I've learned what I know today ffs.... use your head.....

I don't even need to respond to such an ignorant comment such as "Have a kid and tell me how it works out for you." ~ So dam ignorant. So what does this mean... when you became a parent you bacame a super over-protective mind freak and therefore you're actions and life decisions are justified more-so then mine? Get a reality check.... in fact.... maybe it's you who should pull yourself away from the games.

So at 7 years old you understood how sex felt?

At the age of 13 in school when they are teaching you this in sex ed.... did you? Does anybody until they actually do it? What is your point? Just because someone doesn't know how something feels, doesn't mean that they can't grasp the overall concept and morals that are included into the subject...... you're loosing the battle thus far.

[quote]And you understood S.T.D.'s?[quote]

I sure did.... got a friggin problem with me know more then you at a young age? It's not my fault you were brought up more sheltered.... once again... that is subjective to each parent and their methods of parenting.

And you understood pregnancy and what that meant for a couple that was unprepared? I doubt you did.

Of course you doubt because you're trying to compare to your ignorant upbringing to mine.... not my fault you wern't taught these things at a young age..... oh but let me guess.... you must think I lost my childhood because of this? Think again.

You may have been told about those things... but at 7 years old you really can't understand them.

Sez you.

That means waiting for them to ask and not letting them derive their questions from a game where it is glorified. I always find it funny when someone without children talks about how to raise them. It's entirely different when you feel the responsible of raising a child and not just the principles.

Seriously, stop being such an idiot and generalizing as you are.... it's annoying.... and it's ignorant.... I'm 100% sure you don't have all the answers mr. perfect.... and I'm pretty sure you make plenty of mistakes as a parent.... in fact, I imagine you got a few doozys in your past.... I'm in touch with reality enough to realize that I too will make mistakes as a parent.... that's a part of being a parent, as there is no book of laws and rules on how to bring up your child.... so stop standing on your dam soap box preaching that you're a parent so you know what's right, because you clearly don't.

Perhaps you being a parent for so long and being over-protective has coulded your judgement from reality? (See it can work both ways if you want to debate this way)

Now before this continues onto some screwed up tangent from what it originally was.... I'll restate my opinion and leave it at that:

Just because you don't do something with your children or permit a certain kind of entertainment compared to another parent, doesn't mean your kids will turn out better then theirs.... your kids have an equal chance of being ravaged maniac blade killers as the next child.....

It boils down the parenting, and unless you want someone shoved up your arse nit picking how you take care of your kids, don't go doing the same to other parents, because you don't know any better then they do.

[ZNFYRH]

Praxius

I reported your post.

It had lots of good points in it, but you had more condescension, baiting, flaming, and insult than necessary.

I'm not conceding, I just choose not to respond to you if you're going to be disrespectful to that degree.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Praxius I reported your post. It had lots of good points in it, but you had more condescension, baiting, flaming, and insult than necessary. I'm not conceding, I just choose not to respond to you if you're going to be disrespectful to that degree.

Meh... do what you gotta do.

[Jakehopt]

Seven is a little young, I remember my cousin started playing this game around 12 or so.

By the age of twelve (if raised properly) a child should be able to associate right from wrong, reality from a virtual world. The children that recreate things in video games, more particularly violent things, are the children that NEED more guidance in those situations.

[Osborn F Enready]

Welcome to Volconvo Jakehopt, and I like your avatar.

[Praxius]

{Corrected}

..... wait... nope, that didn't work..... disregard this post.

[Separated Unity]

Ah, yes... sweet, delicious in game violence. It's been around forever.
You hear paranoid people like good ol' Jack Thompson acting like video games are just plotting tools used in a secret game company/teenage boy conspiracy to take down our public school system, and stating that Playstation 2's Dualshock controllers make our minds connect murder with pleasurable vibrating.

Listen, here's how it works. Some people just like those games, but other people, who already have good chances for homicidal tendencies (i.e. nutjobs) will choose to play these games as a sort of temporary vent, which probably wont last forever. The games don't create psychosis, people with psychosis choose the game.

And like Praxius mentioned, I have spent quite a bit of time with games like "Narc" and "Mortal Kombat", and after months of blasting people apart, and years of freezing and breaking people, I have never once tried to act out any of this in real life. And I certainly don't get pleasure from vibrating controllers.

[Separated Unity]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Praxius I reported your post. It had lots of good points in it, but you had more condescension, baiting, flaming, and insult than necessary. I'm not conceding, I just choose not to respond to you if you're going to be disrespectful to that degree.

Ha, if all people reported everything they found a bit offensive, and if every insult went to the moderators, this site would probably end up as a barren wasteland.

[ZNFYRH]

There's offensive, and then there was that post.

If it were one or two offhand snipings I wouldn't have cared.

But when the post is full of it, like that one, I think that's infraction-worthy.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Separated Unity Ha, if all people reported everything they found a bit offensive, and if every insult went to the moderators, this site would probably end up as a barren wasteland.

*Snickers*

No Comment, lol.

[Separated Unity]

Yeah, well, you do have a point, ZNFYRH.

You two Volcanic Erupters should just get along

[Muckraker]

I must say, I am an avid video gamer and I fully support adult content in my video games. In fact, I want more of it. The problem with kids playing adult video games is no different than kids seeing adult movies. The task of keeping adult games and movies out of the hands of kids is first addressed by the shop owners who sell the product and then addressed by parents that should know what their kids are doing, even when their kids are at other kids' houses.

Unfortunately, the gaming industry does not recognize that many of its most die hard constituents are now all grown up and want adult entertainment. There is this stigma of youth around game systems that no longer applies. Go into any video game store any day and tell me who you see hanging around in there. Little kids? No way. You will see a whole bunch of sweaty 20-40 year old men that are looking to be entertained. Heck, the $600 entry price, and the game lineup, for the Playstation 3 should be proof enough that this is not a device meant for tots.

That being said, you know why you don't see any truly adult video games for Playstation, Xbox, or Nintendo? Because the platform makers take a firm stance and will not even license an AO (Adult's Only) game for their systems. One of Rockstar's recent releases, Manhunt 2, has been shelved because it was so violent it wound up with an AO rating, which meant it couldn't even be licensed on any gaming platforms aside from the PC.

This really annoys the hell out of me and I am sick of the pandering the video game industry does to parents and kids. Video games are an aging phenomena and there are large masses of adult players that want an adult experience. We want our nudity. We want our swears. We want our "hot coffee" sex. And we want our bloody decapitations. We are adult consumers and we have a right to buy what we want. Game platform manufacturers banning what can be played on their systems is no different than Toshiba saying that no porno DVDs can be played on their DVD players. It's unacceptable.

That being said, young kids playing games that are rated higher than their age is not anyone's problem but the parents. Unfortunately, a whole industry must suffer because of those parents.

[ZNFYRH]

Don't forget that there were not graphically violent games when we were younger.

The people saying that they grew up just fine with video games didn't have GTA:SA when they were seven. The level of violence... not blood, but actual violence, wasn't comparable.

[Muckraker]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Don't forget that there were not graphically violent games when we were younger. The people saying that they grew up just fine with video games didn't have GTA:SA when they were seven. The level of violence... not blood, but actual violence, wasn't comparable.

I agree with that completely. That's why kids should not have access to adult video games just like kids shouldn't have access to porn. Still though, the industry should not be regulated into the depths of hell just because certain parents aren't paying attention to what is going on in their home.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ZNFYRH There's offensive, and then there was that post. If it were one or two offhand snipings I wouldn't have cared. But when the post is full of it, like that one, I think that's infraction-worthy.

What? That?

I kinda figured it was a bit border-line offensive myself, considdering what I deemed was offensive towards myself and my intelligence.... seemed fair enough to me.... but hey.... it bothered you so much..... there ya go.

I grew up around worse that that... frig.... that's Canada..... we take enough jokes from Americans about our beaver lovin' ways... the Newfoundlanders can take the legendary Newfie jokes, spoken by tounge for centuries and generations past...... I can take some harsh crap thrown at me, but if you gotta call bully on me for throwing it back, then I guess that's you're position.

Some of those replies we're not very informed in a very blaitent way, in which also trying to make me appear as though I don't know what I'm talking about, considdering I was 7 years old not that long ago myself?

Not long enough to forget what I did at the age of 7 and what I thought.... hell, I still know what I thought about Go-Bots..... Now who here remembers that?

Raise your hands.....

That's right.... come back with the Google image for the flashback/figure out what I'm talking about.

A couple.... Not bad.... not enough though.

Anywho.... I remember watch Platoon when it first came out.... 6 years old I believe..... I watched it alone around 4 in the morning on a nice big screen.

It was entertaining. Pretty creepy too.....

I suppose now is a good time for me to explain to you my closet of dead 600lb people, and my library of high powered firearms, and claymores, because I feel these big people should be as fit as everybody else to serve in Nam......

Oh wait..... no it's not.... because I don't have a closet of dead 600lb people. Oh and no... I don't even have any firearms. Why?

Probably because the movie didn't screw me up and make me want to become an evil satan child who goes around killing people. :confused:

So why do you think a child a year old of the time, who's playing a video game of all things, be more subjected to violence then say a 6 year old watching a realistic movie with real people, which at the time, looked like they were really blowing up and getting shot.... oh.... and the skull smash.... can't forget that.

I still believe it's over reaction, and as a previous comment above said in one defense..... A Parent would know more about parenting then someone who doesn't have a child..... so let the parent... parent, and mind your busniess..... if you see the kid down the road with a kid and a gun, then you'll know That's life

[prejudged_Fire]

You know why you don't see any truly adult video games for Playstation, Xbox, or Nintendo? Because the platform makers take a firm stance and will not even license an AO (Adult's Only) game for their systems.

Not true. Theres a "special" AO version of GTA:SA for PS2. Theres more too, but I can't think of any right now. The reason we don't see many AO games is because the majority of video game retailers choose not to sell them. And if they do sell them, they are locked up behind the counter so people browsing through don't see them right off (if at all).


As for everything else, I agree with everything Praxius has said thus far. And ZNFYRH, I must say that the racial assumption was quite unnecessary.

For the record, I'm 15 and up until recently I have been raised in probably the most sheltered environment you can imagine, especially when it came to video games (There were many many E rated games I was never allowed to play for one reason or another. Mainly, I stuck to Need for Speed and the like). However, I just recently moved in with my mother, and I can make my own decisions when deciding the types of video games to play. I'm not completely desensitized, and I dont want to be. Therefore I stay away from the unnecessarily brutal games that have absolutely no storyline and only focus on violence. (I liked Quake 4 at first, but the stroggification cut scene really turned me off, and I haven't played it since). I like shooters like FEAR and CoD2, but I'm in love with RPGs such as Oblivion.
Oh, and I've never played any of the GTAs so I can't comment on what the missions are like and such.

Ok now I'm done. Please continue..

[Muckraker]

Quote by: prejudged_Fire Not true. Theres a "special" AO version of GTA:SA for PS2.

GTA:SA received the one and only special dispensation because it was retroactively given an AO rating. There are no AO offerings because the consoles will not license AO games for use on their systems. See the article below for more information:

Sony, Nintendo forbid AO-rated Manhunt 2 - PlayStation 2 News at GameSpot

As I said before, this is because the public has the incorrect perception that "games are for kids." In reality, what they are doing is akin to banning adult DVDs from being played on DVD players because those same DVD players also play Disney movies. It is not logical and it lops off a massive potential audience of middle-aged gamers with consoles.

[ZNFYRH]

prejudged_Fire

It may have been unnecessary, but it was not inaccurate. Nor was it insulting.

I'm not insulting a person's intelligence by pointing out that they lack the experiences of being a child from a certain background.

Also, p_F, what was the most violent game of 1999, when you were 7 years old? And not stylized violence, like in Resident Evil, against fictional opponents. But games where you could hurt random, average people indiscriminately.

For Playstation One, I started here:
Top PlayStation Games - Best PlayStation Video Games - Best PlayStation Games - Top PlayStation Video Games
And just kept scrolling through.

Nothing indiscriminate.

I did the same for PC and other game consoles. Nothing matched the GTA series for the ability to offer random and indiscriminate violence, sex, and mature themes.

Too many gamers take for granted their growing up as the gaming industry grew.